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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2022 17:01:20 GMT -5
Doing that kind of work and making close to the same money that I do. Nasty business! It says in the report that MJF isn't still on the starter contract, that he got a raise into the "hundreds of thousands of dollars" range, but that range is still less than what subsequent hires got. So he's comparatively underpaid but is certainly not making peanuts. I get his frustration but, like, TK's not going to give him a second raise without also locking him down for additional years. It would be stupid to do that regardless of how good a relationship they have.
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Post by stoptheclocks on May 31, 2022 17:12:32 GMT -5
While I understand MJF being frustrated he's not being paid, he's essentially on his "rookie deal" right now. Lamar Jackson is currently the 48th highest paid QB in the NFL, behind the likes of CJ Beathard, Andy Dalton, Mike White, and Mason Rudolph. When this rookie deal runs, he's in line to probably be the 2nd or 3rd highest paid QB in the NFL when he becomes a free agent at the end of this season. But, he really only had two options: 1) Sign an extension with the Ravens, and only the Ravens, some time prior to 2023. 2) Wait until the end of the contract and test his value on the open market. It's the same for MJF. There's really no option 3 to just, kind of, get paid more for the balance of the "rookie deal," but also test the waters of the open market after it expires. Reading between the lines, it kind of feels like that's what MJF wanted here. Tony Khan had no obligation to give MJF a substantial raise without extending the deal and, really, he shouldn't do that. I do think we're rampantly speculating and ultimately have no idea what the discussions were behind closed doors, but to the extent there are kernels of truth to the "MJF is frustrated that he's not paid more" and "MJF is not interested in extending his contract at this time" information that's coming out, I understand MJF's frustration but I just can't sympathize with him. AEW would be foolish to give him a raise without securing his services for longer in return. That's not how these type of contract negotiations work. That's slightly different though. An NFL rookie literally can't sign an extension with anyone until they enter their fourth year, under the terms of the CBA. If wrestlers had a union to agree similar, then great. But given how stacked things are against the workers, I don't think it's also reasonable to expect that breakout stars who are going to earn the company tens of millions (if not 00's) in TV deals just sit tight and wait. That Christian and Mark Henry are earning more than MJF is obvious nonsense.
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Post by Big BosskMan on May 31, 2022 17:13:49 GMT -5
MJF: I am taking my talents to.... Ring of Honor!
/s
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Post by polarbearpete on May 31, 2022 17:50:31 GMT -5
While I understand MJF being frustrated he's not being paid, he's essentially on his "rookie deal" right now. Lamar Jackson is currently the 48th highest paid QB in the NFL, behind the likes of CJ Beathard, Andy Dalton, Mike White, and Mason Rudolph. When this rookie deal runs, he's in line to probably be the 2nd or 3rd highest paid QB in the NFL when he becomes a free agent at the end of this season. But, he really only had two options: 1) Sign an extension with the Ravens, and only the Ravens, some time prior to 2023. 2) Wait until the end of the contract and test his value on the open market. It's the same for MJF. There's really no option 3 to just, kind of, get paid more for the balance of the "rookie deal," but also test the waters of the open market after it expires. Reading between the lines, it kind of feels like that's what MJF wanted here. Tony Khan had no obligation to give MJF a substantial raise without extending the deal and, really, he shouldn't do that. I do think we're rampantly speculating and ultimately have no idea what the discussions were behind closed doors, but to the extent there are kernels of truth to the "MJF is frustrated that he's not paid more" and "MJF is not interested in extending his contract at this time" information that's coming out, I understand MJF's frustration but I just can't sympathize with him. AEW would be foolish to give him a raise without securing his services for longer in return. That's not how these type of contract negotiations work. Some people do get renegotiated higher in business and in sports with no extension for morale purposes/labor relations purposes. You see it a lot of time with holdouts in the NFL. In the MLB, teams can give discretionary raises above the minimum to players in years 1-3. Mets did it with Alonso. There’s also the reports from SRS saying that MJF is not against an extension.
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Post by polarbearpete on May 31, 2022 18:11:53 GMT -5
MJF reportedly in LA, presumably for Dynamite.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
FANatic
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on May 31, 2022 18:56:26 GMT -5
MJF reportedly in LA, presumably for Dynamite. So after all that... he might not even be taking a break? Well if he didn't actually skip on the meet and greet and it was a mutual agreement to not do it and they had to let fans know, that would probably mean no punishment for that. But if he's on for Dynamite and is gonna go business as usual, the meeting had to have gone well.
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Post by Natural Born Farmer on May 31, 2022 19:49:36 GMT -5
While those starter deal numbers sound kinda low, they are for one, maybe two shows a week, usually DURING the week, and I'd guess that number includes no merch and certainly not their indie dates.
40-70 is a really solid base if you can boost it with a grind, and potentially make a hell of a lot more on the next deal.
I can agree MJF sounds underpaid if multiple recent signees are ahead of him, but the NFL analogy is accurate. The hot recent signee who's doing well shouldn't be jealous the team is paying vets more even if they just joined the team.
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Blade
Don Corleone
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Post by Blade on May 31, 2022 19:55:01 GMT -5
I'm going to go against the grain and say Tony Khan is a damn fool for not renegotiating to give MJF more money. First, as pointed out, he already has. So the principle of the thing is not an issue, but the fact MJF is making one quarter to one fifth as much as people who are less valuable to AEW than him is correctly seen as taking advantage of him.
Second, the obvious fear here is that it might open the floodgates for someone like, say, Darby Allin to also want to renegotiate. Well... so what? Darby Allin is worth a lot to AEW, and if he's not being paid like he is, than he should be.
Anyone who wants to argue that Adam Cole is 4-5 times as valuable to AEW as MJF is is welcome to try. That's not a diss on Cole, that's just reality. Hell, I love Christian and his signing with AEW is 100% why I'm watching it but even counting his valuable backstage and training experience and the obvious good effects it's had on, e.g., Jungle Boy... he is not four or five times as valuable as MJF.
In fact, given the work he's put in in the last year (ever since the Darby feud especially), I would categorically state that even Punk and Bryan probably aren't worth four to five times as much as he is.
More to the point, by being intransigent about paying MJF what he was actually worth to his company, Tony Khan has alienated one of his best workers, harmed one of the most built up plotlines and star making moments of the last year, and possibly permanently damaged MJF's motivation to provide his best work for AEW, to say nothing of the undeserved and unfair harm he's done to MJF himself.
Pay people what they're worth, or don't expect them to actually give you their best. Tony's selfishness and greed hurt him and his product, and he is primarily to blame for it. And while people say "don't expect the boss to be your friend", there is no law that forces you (as a private business owner) to exploit someone who works for you and pay them as little as you think you can get away with. MJF was worth way the hell more to AEW than the million dollars or so Tony would have paid to make him feel valued.
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Post by Some Baritone guy IS REDEEMED! on May 31, 2022 20:14:08 GMT -5
I'm going to go against the grain and say Tony Khan is a damn fool for not renegotiating to give MJF more money. First, as pointed out, he already has. So the principle of the thing is not an issue, but the fact MJF is making one quarter to one fifth as much as people who are less valuable to AEW than him is correctly seen as taking advantage of him. Second, the obvious fear here is that it might open the floodgates for someone like, say, Darby Allin to also want to renegotiate. Well... so what? Darby Allin is worth a lot to AEW, and if he's not being paid like he is, than he should be. Anyone who wants to argue that Adam Cole is 4-5 times as valuable to AEW as MJF is is welcome to try. That's not a diss on Cole, that's just reality. Hell, I love Christian and his signing with AEW is 100% why I'm watching it but even counting his valuable backstage and training experience and the obvious good effects it's had on, e.g., Jungle Boy... he is not four or five times as valuable as MJF.In fact, given the work he's put in in the last year (ever since the Darby feud especially), I would categorically state that even Punk and Bryan probably aren't worth four to five times as much as he is. More to the point, by being intransigent about paying MJF what he was actually worth to his company, Tony Khan has alienated one of his best workers, harmed one of the most built up plotlines and star making moments of the last year, and possibly permanently damaged MJF's motivation to provide his best work for AEW, to say nothing of the undeserved and unfair harm he's done to MJF himself. Pay people what they're worth, or don't expect them to actually give you their best. Tony's selfishness and greed hurt him and his product, and he is primarily to blame for it. And while people say "don't expect the boss to be your friend", there is no law that forces you (as a private business owner) to exploit someone who works for you and pay them as little as you think you can get away with. MJF was worth way the hell more to AEW than the million dollars or so Tony would have paid to make him feel valued. All of which could have been resolved if MJF approached him about it. As far as Tony was aware this was a non-issue and MJF was fine with what he was making until MJF blew up on him following the interview thing, and all indications were that Tony Khan was willing to open talks with MJF regarding an increase in salary. The way these reports make it sound the issue was less that Tony was unwilling to negotiate and more that MJF was pissy that Tony wasn't the one to initiate talks. That's not to say MJF's wrong to say that he's worth more and he's not wrong to push for what he's worth. Frankly I agree that there's nobody on the roster worth 4-5 times as much as him. But MJF had other avenues he could have approached this problem and Tony Khan can't fix a problem he didn't know was there.
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Blade
Don Corleone
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Post by Blade on May 31, 2022 20:30:36 GMT -5
All of which could have been resolved if MJF approached him about it. As far as Tony was aware this was a non-issue and MJF was fine with what he was making until MJF blew up on him following the interview thing, and all indications were that Tony Khan was willing to open talks with MJF regarding an increase in salary. The way these reports make it sound the issue was less that Tony was unwilling to negotiate and more that MJF was pissy that Tony wasn't the one to initiate talks. That's not to say MJF's wrong to say that he's worth more and he's not wrong to push for what he's worth. Frankly I agree that there's nobody on the roster worth 4-5 times as much as him. But MJF had other avenues he could have approached this problem and Tony Khan can't fix a problem he didn't know was there. The report is sufficiently vague on that point that it's hard to be sure what the problem is there. However, I doubt MJF literally never brought it up, but even if that were the case: 1) He was already put on a higher deal that was 20-25% of what people less valuable than he is was getting. It is not difficult to see why he would be unhappy. 2) Even if this literally came out of nowhere for Tony, he's had months to do something about it while MJF was setting up a huge angle and he didn't. Saying MJF is unwilling to negotiate is obtuse; Tony has the power and, I would argue, the responsibility to either sit down in person or through mediators find out what MJF's issue was, and work to resolve it. Just letting it simmer is also saying "This isn't a problem for me." Well, it's a problem for him NOW, isn't it? But I don't think any of that is true, for the very simple reason that Keller knows about it, which unless MJF is his source (directly or indirectly), means other people already knew what the problem was. Like don't get me wrong, I think it is believable that MJF did not reveal HOW unhappy he was about this until it all blew up in an unrelated matter. I in fact have a lot of insight and empathy as to how that could happen; MJF and I both have ADHD and share some other things in common, and therefore I can take some educated guesses as to the gist of what was going on there. So catching Tony off-guard, him not realising how unhappy he was, yep, I get all that too. But it happened because Tony didn't pay him what he was worth to begin with.And that's why he's a damn fool.
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Post by Jedi-El of Tomorrow on May 31, 2022 20:31:24 GMT -5
On his no-show at the meet and greet on Saturday, Keller said, "the way it was portrayed to us is MJF was in no place to be in public. He was in a bad place. And so it just seemed if not mutually agreed upon [it was] pretty obvious to everybody that it would be good for him to not make a public appearance yesterday. If this is accurate, it really needs to be emphasized by the people involved, because a mutual decision for MJF not to appear at the signing is a way different situation than him blowing off the appearance without notice, and significantly less likely to hurt his future prospects. And his mental health. Right now he's taking all the shit for the meet and greet, if it was mutually agreed that he shouldn't be there, AEW should mention it.
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2022 20:36:05 GMT -5
While I understand MJF being frustrated he's not being paid, he's essentially on his "rookie deal" right now. Lamar Jackson is currently the 48th highest paid QB in the NFL, behind the likes of CJ Beathard, Andy Dalton, Mike White, and Mason Rudolph. When this rookie deal runs, he's in line to probably be the 2nd or 3rd highest paid QB in the NFL when he becomes a free agent at the end of this season. But, he really only had two options: 1) Sign an extension with the Ravens, and only the Ravens, some time prior to 2023. 2) Wait until the end of the contract and test his value on the open market. It's the same for MJF. There's really no option 3 to just, kind of, get paid more for the balance of the "rookie deal," but also test the waters of the open market after it expires. Reading between the lines, it kind of feels like that's what MJF wanted here. Tony Khan had no obligation to give MJF a substantial raise without extending the deal and, really, he shouldn't do that. I do think we're rampantly speculating and ultimately have no idea what the discussions were behind closed doors, but to the extent there are kernels of truth to the "MJF is frustrated that he's not paid more" and "MJF is not interested in extending his contract at this time" information that's coming out, I understand MJF's frustration but I just can't sympathize with him. AEW would be foolish to give him a raise without securing his services for longer in return. That's not how these type of contract negotiations work. That's slightly different though. An NFL rookie literally can't sign an extension with anyone until they enter their fourth year, under the terms of the CBA. If wrestlers had a union to agree similar, then great. But given how stacked things are against the workers, I don't think it's also reasonable to expect that breakout stars who are going to earn the company tens of millions (if not 00's) in TV deals just sit tight and wait. That Christian and Mark Henry are earning more than MJF is obvious nonsense. It’s very slightly different, I guess…but, at its core, it’s still contract negotiation. It makes no sense for AEW to give MJF a raise at this point, but not get a longer commitment in return. If it’s true that MJF is open to an extension, then I hope it works out. But, if it really is that MJF wants a raise but also wants to ultimately be a free agent and negotiate with WWE, then I completely understand AEW not wanting to do that.
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2022 20:39:58 GMT -5
While I understand MJF being frustrated he's not being paid, he's essentially on his "rookie deal" right now. Lamar Jackson is currently the 48th highest paid QB in the NFL, behind the likes of CJ Beathard, Andy Dalton, Mike White, and Mason Rudolph. When this rookie deal runs, he's in line to probably be the 2nd or 3rd highest paid QB in the NFL when he becomes a free agent at the end of this season. But, he really only had two options: 1) Sign an extension with the Ravens, and only the Ravens, some time prior to 2023. 2) Wait until the end of the contract and test his value on the open market. It's the same for MJF. There's really no option 3 to just, kind of, get paid more for the balance of the "rookie deal," but also test the waters of the open market after it expires. Reading between the lines, it kind of feels like that's what MJF wanted here. Tony Khan had no obligation to give MJF a substantial raise without extending the deal and, really, he shouldn't do that. I do think we're rampantly speculating and ultimately have no idea what the discussions were behind closed doors, but to the extent there are kernels of truth to the "MJF is frustrated that he's not paid more" and "MJF is not interested in extending his contract at this time" information that's coming out, I understand MJF's frustration but I just can't sympathize with him. AEW would be foolish to give him a raise without securing his services for longer in return. That's not how these type of contract negotiations work. Some people do get renegotiated higher in business and in sports with no extension for morale purposes/labor relations purposes. You see it a lot of time with holdouts in the NFL. In the MLB, teams can give discretionary raises above the minimum to players in years 1-3. Mets did it with Alonso. There’s also the reports from SRS saying that MJF is not against an extension. I can see the merit in giving a raise with years left on the contract as a sign of good faith (a discretionary raise, so to speak), but it sounds like Tony Khan already did that. Paying MJF at main eventer level without an accompanying extension is something different entirely to me. You rarely, if ever, see someone hold out when they’re not in a contract year.
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Post by HMARK Center on May 31, 2022 20:58:06 GMT -5
I understand the frustration when you feel that you're underpaid and your boss isn't taking steps to rectify that. But my time as a professional has taught me that you can only rely on yourself to advocate for more. If you want something, go try and get it and go from there. I don't think it's in his best interest to let those feelings get in the way of potentially negotiating a better contract. Go to Tony Khan, negotiate in good faith, and if the number is what you want, then there are steps to potentially get out of your contract if that's what you ultimately want. One of my dad's big things has always been emphasizing that you "have to be your own best advocate", "you have to be proactive", things of that nature. He and I have secondary jobs that now and then require mentioning to the higher ups that the current rates we're getting paid may not be enough and need some adjusting; sometimes those bosses are folks who'll give you that 1-2% annual raise if they can spare it, but if you want something more substantial you have to go out of your way to say something, because otherwise why would the bosses make the change given that the current circumstance benefit them? Hell, I'm about to bring it up to my boss soon: the rate I get paid at my second job is too low to guarantee I can get substitutes to fill in for me sometimes, since they don't want it known they're willing to work for that low a number; I can afford to do that since I have a primary job that pays the bulk of my income, but if I want it to change I'll have to bring it up and hammer out a new agreement. If Max feels undervalued, that's 100% fair. If Max feels undervalued, though, he also has to say something. You can't just wait for your boss to proactively say "Hey, I know expenditures are up recently, but how'd you like your pay doubled/tripled/quadrupled before your contract's up?" As it says, Khan did already give him a raise earlier, so maybe MJF was thinking of that regarding this situation and expecting it to happen again, but you can't expect it to happen, unfortunately.
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Post by oxbaker on May 31, 2022 21:06:58 GMT -5
Some people do get renegotiated higher in business and in sports with no extension for morale purposes/labor relations purposes. You see it a lot of time with holdouts in the NFL. In the MLB, teams can give discretionary raises above the minimum to players in years 1-3. Mets did it with Alonso. There’s also the reports from SRS saying that MJF is not against an extension. I can see the merit in giving a raise with years left on the contract as a sign of good faith (a discretionary raise, so to speak), but it sounds like Tony Khan already did that. Paying MJF at main eventer level without an accompanying extension is something different entirely to me. You rarely, if ever, see someone hold out when they’re not in a contract year. As I posted elsewhere, the devil is in the details. It’s easy to say in a vacuum ‘if he wants a raise he should sign an extension.’ But we don’t have the crucial pieces of information: how big of a raise and how long of an extension? If TK was offering him Punk money for a one-year extension, I suspect this would already have been done. If he’s offering to bump him to Aleister Black money for a 10-year extension, different kettle of fish. You can’t just say ‘he should sign for an extension’ without knowing how long, nor how substantial the raise. It may be that Tony is low-balling him. It may be he is vastly overestimating his own value. But if he’s making less than some people who have been mentioned in reports — let’s say $200K since that number floats around — then there’s really no debate at all that he’s being underpaid and taken advantage of. A raise from $40-70K to $200K sounds good but it’s not reflective of how the promotion has used him. And I’ll side with the worker over the billionaire. Tony is playing with Monopoly money. Pay the man.
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Post by ChitownKnight on May 31, 2022 21:09:35 GMT -5
I'm going to go against the grain and say Tony Khan is a damn fool for not renegotiating to give MJF more money. First, as pointed out, he already has. So the principle of the thing is not an issue, but the fact MJF is making one quarter to one fifth as much as people who are less valuable to AEW than him is correctly seen as taking advantage of him. Second, the obvious fear here is that it might open the floodgates for someone like, say, Darby Allin to also want to renegotiate. Well... so what? Darby Allin is worth a lot to AEW, and if he's not being paid like he is, than he should be. Anyone who wants to argue that Adam Cole is 4-5 times as valuable to AEW as MJF is is welcome to try. That's not a diss on Cole, that's just reality. Hell, I love Christian and his signing with AEW is 100% why I'm watching it but even counting his valuable backstage and training experience and the obvious good effects it's had on, e.g., Jungle Boy... he is not four or five times as valuable as MJF.In fact, given the work he's put in in the last year (ever since the Darby feud especially), I would categorically state that even Punk and Bryan probably aren't worth four to five times as much as he is. More to the point, by being intransigent about paying MJF what he was actually worth to his company, Tony Khan has alienated one of his best workers, harmed one of the most built up plotlines and star making moments of the last year, and possibly permanently damaged MJF's motivation to provide his best work for AEW, to say nothing of the undeserved and unfair harm he's done to MJF himself. Pay people what they're worth, or don't expect them to actually give you their best. Tony's selfishness and greed hurt him and his product, and he is primarily to blame for it. And while people say "don't expect the boss to be your friend", there is no law that forces you (as a private business owner) to exploit someone who works for you and pay them as little as you think you can get away with. MJF was worth way the hell more to AEW than the million dollars or so Tony would have paid to make him feel valued. If MJF re signs past 2024, he absolutely should renegotiate his contract, but if he’s threatening to go to wwe, then nah
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Post by Some Baritone guy IS REDEEMED! on May 31, 2022 21:18:24 GMT -5
All of which could have been resolved if MJF approached him about it. As far as Tony was aware this was a non-issue and MJF was fine with what he was making until MJF blew up on him following the interview thing, and all indications were that Tony Khan was willing to open talks with MJF regarding an increase in salary. The way these reports make it sound the issue was less that Tony was unwilling to negotiate and more that MJF was pissy that Tony wasn't the one to initiate talks. That's not to say MJF's wrong to say that he's worth more and he's not wrong to push for what he's worth. Frankly I agree that there's nobody on the roster worth 4-5 times as much as him. But MJF had other avenues he could have approached this problem and Tony Khan can't fix a problem he didn't know was there. The report is sufficiently vague on that point that it's hard to be sure what the problem is there. However, I doubt MJF literally never brought it up, but even if that were the case: 1) He was already put on a higher deal that was 20-25% of what people less valuable than he is was getting. It is not difficult to see why he would be unhappy. 2) Even if this literally came out of nowhere for Tony, he's had months to do something about it while MJF was setting up a huge angle and he didn't. Saying MJF is unwilling to negotiate is obtuse; Tony has the power and, I would argue, the responsibility to either sit down in person or through mediators find out what MJF's issue was, and work to resolve it. Just letting it simmer is also saying "This isn't a problem for me." Well, it's a problem for him NOW, isn't it? But I don't think any of that is true, for the very simple reason that Keller knows about it, which unless MJF is his source (directly or indirectly), means other people already knew what the problem was. Like don't get me wrong, I think it is believable that MJF did not reveal HOW unhappy he was about this until it all blew up in an unrelated matter. I in fact have a lot of insight and empathy as to how that could happen; MJF and I both have ADHD and share some other things in common, and therefore I can take some educated guesses as to the gist of what was going on there. So catching Tony off-guard, him not realising how unhappy he was, yep, I get all that too. But it happened because Tony didn't pay him what he was worth to begin with.And that's why he's a damn fool. I also suffer from ADHD and at least one diagnosed anxiety disorder as well, so I have some understanding of this as well, but my big thing is this: There's a big difference between seeing why somebody might be upset and just making the assumption that somebody is upset about something. That's a pretty massive logical leap. Furthermore from a business perspective, without an indication that there was a need to increase spending on a particular service, why on earth would you start paying 4-5X as much for that service? Tony's a business man, I think if MJF had come to him and had stated outright that he felt he was worth more than he was getting I don't think it's hard to believe that Tony (who was stated to be fairly close with MJF) would have been more than willing to negotiate with him. This is also a backfire of the whole "always in character" thing. Sure he may have expressed dissatisfaction with his pay in interviews both in and out of AEW but it's very plausible Tony Khan would have simply thought that he was speaking in character. He put the hint out there in hopes that Tony would pick up on it and he didn't. This isn't exactly uncommon for people with anxiety disorders (which I recall reading MJF suffers from). Addressing a problem indirectly rather than dealing with it head on can seem less daunting. As far as the sources, isn't it plausible that Keller's sources noticed MJF's shift in demeanor, were unsure what it was about at the time, and then put 2 and 2 together once the shit hit the fan? If MJF is as private a person as he seems to be, it doesn't seem entirely unbelievable that he wouldn't exactly go spilling this to everybody and their mother. And I'm not saying Tony is completely blameless in this either, but saying that he's the totally the one in the wrong doesn't make much sense to me. Multiple reports have come out that they did try to sit down with him and discuss matters but until this past weekend he wasn't particularly ready to do so. From the looks of things though, the two of them did talk things out and have come to at least some sort of understanding, and hopefully going forward the two sides will be more open in their dialogue in the future whether MJF stays there or goes elsewhere.
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Blade
Don Corleone
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Post by Blade on May 31, 2022 21:20:00 GMT -5
Like I don't wanna go too in the woods on this because it almost feels like talking about a private matter even though MJF has openly talked about his ADHD, anxiety, and history of being bullied, but... hmm, how to put this.
It is very, very intuitive to me why MJF would interpret Khan not doing something as personal rejection, given what we're told of their relationship.
It is also very, very intuitive to me why MJF would not be his "best advocate" in this situation. It in fact might be functionally impossible for him.
And it is intuitive to me in a way that would be very difficult to explain to people that don't have ADHD and attachment trauma/anxiety, and would be even more difficult for them to actually internalise and understand. Mental health is a bitch that way, and while you may not take my word for it, things that seem simple and obvious and "Why not just say/do this thing?" can in fact be near impossible even if you clearly recognise the situation (which he may not have).
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Blade
Don Corleone
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Post by Blade on May 31, 2022 21:26:33 GMT -5
I also suffer from ADHD and at least one diagnosed anxiety disorder as well, so I have some understanding of this as well, but my big thing is this: There's a big difference between seeing why somebody might be upset and just making the assumption that somebody is upset about something. That's a pretty massive logical leap. Furthermore from a business perspective, without an indication that there was a need to increase spending on a particular service, why on earth would you start paying 4-5X as much for that service? Tony's a business man, I think if MJF had come to him and had stated outright that he felt he was worth more than he was getting I don't think it's hard to believe that Tony (who was stated to be fairly close with MJF) would have been more than willing to negotiate with him. Yeah, I get you totally, but that's why I'm saying I have no trouble believing Tony didn't think there was really trouble in paradise and this caught him off-guard. That's not the problem. The problem was that they DID have a blow up argument and their relationship cooled off and Max's demeanour backstage notably changed to people, and nothing was followed up on from that (assuming these reports are broadly accurate), and even more so, that Tony did not pay MJF what he was worth from the getgo. He renegotiated his pay already: he could have done it then or renegotiated based on MJF's obvious value in the last year and avoided all of this. Tony's fault is his complacency over a brewing problem with on of his top guys, and that he was greedy when he should have been generous. I don't blame him per se for not understanding MJF's mental health - though this is an excellent example of why hiring personnel managers who are trained in mental health issues so they have better insight into what's going on would be better for everybody.
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Post by Some Baritone guy IS REDEEMED! on May 31, 2022 21:31:31 GMT -5
Like I don't wanna go too in the woods on this because it almost feels like talking about a private matter even though MJF has openly talked about his ADHD, anxiety, and history of being bullied, but... hmm, how to put this. It is very, very intuitive to me why MJF would interpret Khan not doing something as personal rejection, given what we're told of their relationship. It is also very, very intuitive to me why MJF would not be his "best advocate" in this situation. It in fact might be functionally impossible for him. And it is intuitive to me in a way that would be very difficult to explain to people that don't have ADHD and attachment trauma/anxiety, and would be even more difficult for them to actually internalise and understand. Mental health is a bitch that way, and while you may not take my word for it, things that seem simple and obvious and "Why not just say/do this thing?" can in fact be near impossible even if you clearly recognise the situation (which he may not have). I agree in a lot of ways. It's much easier to say a lot of this stuff from the outside looking in. I'm about his age (little over a year younger) it's taken me a long time to learn to just go and say what needs to be said instead of building shit up in my head and I'm still not great at it. One of the key differences that I will acknowledge is that I got to learn this stuff in a fairly normal environment, whereas he's pretty much grown up in the wrestling scene since he was 19 years old, which is decidedly not a normal situation.
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