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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2022 21:42:30 GMT -5
I can see the merit in giving a raise with years left on the contract as a sign of good faith (a discretionary raise, so to speak), but it sounds like Tony Khan already did that. Paying MJF at main eventer level without an accompanying extension is something different entirely to me. You rarely, if ever, see someone hold out when they’re not in a contract year. As I posted elsewhere, the devil is in the details. It’s easy to say in a vacuum ‘if he wants a raise he should sign an extension.’ But we don’t have the crucial pieces of information: how big of a raise and how long of an extension? If TK was offering him Punk money for a one-year extension, I suspect this would already have been done. If he’s offering to bump him to Aleister Black money for a 10-year extension, different kettle of fish. You can’t just say ‘he should sign for an extension’ without knowing how long, nor how substantial the raise. It may be that Tony is low-balling him. It may be he is vastly overestimating his own value. But if he’s making less than some people who have been mentioned in reports — let’s say $200K since that number floats around — then there’s really no debate at all that he’s being underpaid and taken advantage of. A raise from $40-70K to $200K sounds good but it’s not reflective of how the promotion has used him. And I’ll side with the worker over the billionaire. Tony is playing with Monopoly money. Pay the man. Oh, I’m not saying that MJF shouldn’t advocate for himself and make as much money as humanly possible. I’m just saying that I understand why AEW/Tony Khan wouldn’t just unilaterally give him a raise without securing an extension in return. That’s a dangerous precedent to set, and bad business. What’ll happen when, say, Swerve Strickland decides he’s worth more money 1 year into a 5 year deal? I’m not siding with the billionaire over the worker and, as I said earlier, I agree that the devil’s in the details, but we don’t have those details. We’re just speculating. MJF’s about to make an absolute shitload of money, whether that comes from WWE or AEW. That’s the only certainty here. And he deserves it.
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Post by oxbaker on May 31, 2022 21:46:44 GMT -5
As I posted elsewhere, the devil is in the details. It’s easy to say in a vacuum ‘if he wants a raise he should sign an extension.’ But we don’t have the crucial pieces of information: how big of a raise and how long of an extension? If TK was offering him Punk money for a one-year extension, I suspect this would already have been done. If he’s offering to bump him to Aleister Black money for a 10-year extension, different kettle of fish. You can’t just say ‘he should sign for an extension’ without knowing how long, nor how substantial the raise. It may be that Tony is low-balling him. It may be he is vastly overestimating his own value. But if he’s making less than some people who have been mentioned in reports — let’s say $200K since that number floats around — then there’s really no debate at all that he’s being underpaid and taken advantage of. A raise from $40-70K to $200K sounds good but it’s not reflective of how the promotion has used him. And I’ll side with the worker over the billionaire. Tony is playing with Monopoly money. Pay the man. Oh, I’m not saying that MJF shouldn’t advocate for himself and make as much money as humanly possible. I’m just saying that I understand why AEW/Tony Khan wouldn’t just unilaterally give him a raise without securing an extension in return. That’s a dangerous precedent to set, and bad business. What’ll happen when, say, Swerve Strickland decides he’s worth more money 1 year into a 5 year deal? I’m not siding with the billionaire over the worker and, as I said earlier, I agree that the devil’s in the details, but we don’t have those details. We’re just speculating. MJF’s about to make an absolute shitload of money, whether that comes from WWE or AEW. That’s the only certainty here. And he deserves it. Well according to reports, Tony already did bump up his original deal without an extension. If true, it apparently didn’t lead to everyone else on the roster demanding and getting raises without extensions. You handle that very easily if you’re Tony K. Someone else comes in and says I’m outperforming my contract, you look at their contract and how you’re using them and if they don’t match up then you give them a merit raise if they are indeed earning it. You offer a higher bump with an extension. If they’re not, you tell them that they’re performing at a level on par with their pay. Or you say, when you work your way up to a position and get as over as a face or heel as MJF did, I’m definitely open to talking about it. But right now you’re not there. I don’t think Swerve can make the case the way MJF has.
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Zone Was Wrong
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Post by Zone Was Wrong on May 31, 2022 21:55:48 GMT -5
Honestly, the more that comes out the more obvious it's getting that we really don't kbow exactly what is going on between them definitively. MJF definitely needs to be paid more but who knows exactly what discussions they've had and what is hold either side up. Feels like we're seeing a lot of reports that contradict themselves.
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Dub H
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Post by Dub H on May 31, 2022 22:02:44 GMT -5
I did say when these.talks of MJF being unhappy with pay that you should give a small one to show it matters.
didn't consider he had already done it
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Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on May 31, 2022 22:06:36 GMT -5
I understand the frustration when you feel that you're underpaid and your boss isn't taking steps to rectify that. But my time as a professional has taught me that you can only rely on yourself to advocate for more. If you want something, go try and get it and go from there. I don't think it's in his best interest to let those feelings get in the way of potentially negotiating a better contract. Go to Tony Khan, negotiate in good faith, and if the number is what you want, then there are steps to potentially get out of your contract if that's what you ultimately want. One of my dad's big things has always been emphasizing that you "have to be your own best advocate", "you have to be proactive", things of that nature. He and I have secondary jobs that now and then require mentioning to the higher ups that the current rates we're getting paid may not be enough and need some adjusting; sometimes those bosses are folks who'll give you that 1-2% annual raise if they can spare it, but if you want something more substantial you have to go out of your way to say something, because otherwise why would the bosses make the change given that the current circumstance benefit them? Hell, I'm about to bring it up to my boss soon: the rate I get paid at my second job is too low to guarantee I can get substitutes to fill in for me sometimes, since they don't want it known they're willing to work for that low a number; I can afford to do that since I have a primary job that pays the bulk of my income, but if I want it to change I'll have to bring it up and hammer out a new agreement. If Max feels undervalued, that's 100% fair. If Max feels undervalued, though, he also has to say something. You can't just wait for your boss to proactively say "Hey, I know expenditures are up recently, but how'd you like your pay doubled/tripled/quadrupled before your contract's up?" As it says, Khan did already give him a raise earlier, so maybe MJF was thinking of that regarding this situation and expecting it to happen again, but you can't expect it to happen, unfortunately. It reminds me of Mick Foley saying he always got paid more if he had Collette sit in during negotiations because she was less sheepish about making a case for him and what he was worth. I think a lot of people are like that, very reluctant to be their own hypeman.
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2022 23:02:56 GMT -5
It's incredibly strange to think that Cody vs. MJF could main event a Wrestlemania in the next few years.
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deezy
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Post by deezy on May 31, 2022 23:26:56 GMT -5
If this is accurate, it really needs to be emphasized by the people involved, because a mutual decision for MJF not to appear at the signing is a way different situation than him blowing off the appearance without notice, and significantly less likely to hurt his future prospects. And his mental health. Right now he's taking all the shit for the meet and greet, if it was mutually agreed that he shouldn't be there, AEW should mention it. Yeah if the no show was mutual and AEW didn't announce it that way that's messed up. But it's something I would expect from Khan.
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Post by 06vwgti on May 31, 2022 23:32:06 GMT -5
If this is accurate, it really needs to be emphasized by the people involved, because a mutual decision for MJF not to appear at the signing is a way different situation than him blowing off the appearance without notice, and significantly less likely to hurt his future prospects. And his mental health. Right now he's taking all the shit for the meet and greet, if it was mutually agreed that he shouldn't be there, AEW should mention it. But what if MJF didn't want it announced it was a mental health problem? AEW kept the lid tight on Brodie Lee's health issues from being public and they were praised for it.
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Celgress
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Post by Celgress on May 31, 2022 23:45:19 GMT -5
I'm going to say something that might upset people but here goes. Except for four or five people (CM Punk, DB, Mox, Jericho, and arguably Wardlow who is rapidly on the rise), MJF is worth more to the company than 90% of the other talent. I hope TK has given him a reasonable rise already. That said, you don't almost screw the paying fans and other people in the company like MJF did you just don't.
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Post by Jedi-El of Tomorrow on Jun 1, 2022 0:02:37 GMT -5
And his mental health. Right now he's taking all the shit for the meet and greet, if it was mutually agreed that he shouldn't be there, AEW should mention it. But what if MJF didn't want it announced it was a mental health problem? AEW kept the lid tight on Brodie Lee's health issues from being public and they were praised for it. Then you come out and say something else. Don't let all the blame go to MJF when it was mutual. Say something like "MJF was feeling under the weather" or "MJF is in an important meeting for AEW" or "MJF won't be here because AEW can't guarantee his security if Wardlow tries something". You don't let MJF take all the heat if it was mutually agreed that he wouldn't be there.
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Post by 06vwgti on Jun 1, 2022 7:32:37 GMT -5
But what if MJF didn't want it announced it was a mental health problem? AEW kept the lid tight on Brodie Lee's health issues from being public and they were praised for it. Then you come out and say something else. Don't let all the blame go to MJF when it was mutual. Say something like "MJF was feeling under the weather" or "MJF is in an important meeting for AEW" or "MJF won't be here because AEW can't guarantee his security if Wardlow tries something". You don't let MJF take all the heat if it was mutually agreed that he wouldn't be there. I guess, I was just speculating
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Post by kingoftheindies on Jun 1, 2022 7:46:19 GMT -5
Feel like should mention is per SRS, MJf's side understands that for more money he'd have to sign an extension.
Honestly sounds like MJF did kind of work himself into a shoot if this is true with how he's always in character and sounds like a lot of the bad blood came from AEW side of things thinking he was just playing a character with his contract talks and MJF getting angry.
Doesn't sound like a completely broken situation and while I won't say anyone is 100 percent in the wrong I think this does give a bit of a point t where talent relations need to improve
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xxshoyuweeniexx
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Post by xxshoyuweeniexx on Jun 1, 2022 10:07:09 GMT -5
MJF should really have known that your boss is never your friend. The sooner people in WWE and AEW realize this, the better. Vince McMahon is not your friend no matter how much you think you had a “great relationship” cause he will literally throw his own family under the bus. And also, Tony Khan is not your friend, no matter how much weed or white claws you’ve done after shows with him.
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Post by jason1980s on Jun 1, 2022 10:40:55 GMT -5
MJF should really have known that your boss is never your friend. The sooner people in WWE and AEW realize this, the better. Vince McMahon is not your friend no matter how much you think you had a “great relationship” cause he will literally throw his own family under the bus. And also, Tony Khan is not your friend, no matter how much weed or white claws you’ve done after shows with him. I'm not a Vince fan but I sure don't trust Tony. He comes off as a guy whose sole mission is to destroy Vince and tear down Eric Bischoff. I get it, Vince destroyed whoever he could and Eric tries to tear down Tony and AEW any chance he gets but Tony can never be "the bigger man" and accept he still has a long way to go with his promotion and accept criticism is valid. I don't even trust that he does things for such altruistic motives that he tries to portray. I think he got Martha Hart and her kids solely because he wanted something Vince could never have-and he got it. But I think it will be ultimately at the expense of that part of the Hart family when they realize. He may dislike/hate Vince and Eric but he's very much like them.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2022 11:19:54 GMT -5
The sooner people in WWE and AEW realize this, the better. Vince McMahon is not your friend no matter how much you think you had a “great relationship” cause he will literally throw his own family under the bus. And also, Tony Khan is not your friend, no matter how much weed or white claws you’ve done after shows with him. I'm not a Vince fan but I sure don't trust Tony. He comes off as a guy whose sole mission is to destroy Vince and tear down Eric Bischoff. I get it, Vince destroyed whoever he could and Eric tries to tear down Tony and AEW any chance he gets but Tony can never be "the bigger man" and accept he still has a long way to go with his promotion and accept criticism is valid. I don't even trust that he does things for such altruistic motives that he tries to portray. I think he got Martha Hart and her kids solely because he wanted something Vince could never have-and he got it. But I think it will be ultimately at the expense of that part of the Hart family when they realize. He may dislike/hate Vince and Eric but he's very much like them. Tony Khan is a trust fund billionaire who has frequently displayed a lack of understanding of the social couth required to run a business, but I just can't remotely agree with this statement. The only known interaction Khan had with Bischoff prior to the last several months was featuring him on Dynamite a couple of times. There's simply no possible, objective, way to consider anyone other than Bischoff the aggressor against AEW these last several months, as he tries to drum up controversy to create cash by saying absurd things like CM Punk is the biggest financial flop in the history of wrestling less than a year into his AEW run. Sure, Khan responded to those comments (when, maybe, as the owner, he should have let it lie) and sure, he once said that he felt like WCW would still be alive if he were running it, but I would be willing to wager every single dollar that I have to my name that not a single decision ever made by Tony Khan, not even one, was ever motivated by a desire to "tear down Eric Bischoff." Eric Bischoff is nothing more than a shock jock podcaster in the wrestling industry at this point. With respect to Vince...I don't see how you could possibly look at anything Khan has done in running AEW as having been borne out of a desire to "destroy Vince." If anything, all of AEW's public business moves seem to recognize that WWE is the more established, more popular company, and have outright avoided conflict. Sure, shit was talked about AEW winning the "Wednesday Night Wars," but WWE initiated that battle to try (and fail) to snuff out AEW early. But, like, Rampage was put on the air after SmackDown ends. AEW has never even so much as run a show at the same time as a PLE. Obviously, the ultimate goal with any business is for it to be at the forefront of its industry. For AEW, that would entail surpassing WWE, so that's a goal that is inherent in its very existence, but from what I've seen Tony Khan seems to have been far more focused on building his own brand then trying to "destroy Vince." In fact, I would argue that his savvy in actively avoiding direct competition to WWE is one of the primary reasons why AEW is the first truly viable alternative to WWE in two decades.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Jun 1, 2022 12:04:14 GMT -5
I can see both sides of things but I think AEW is dropping the ball with him
TK can certainly do more to protect MJF from the debacle that happened if it was a mutual decision for him to sit out.
This whole thing can come back and bite TK in the ass later if it isn’t resolved
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Post by eJm on Jun 1, 2022 12:17:07 GMT -5
In fact, I would argue that his savvy in actively avoiding direct competition to WWE is one of the primary reasons why AEW is the first truly viable alternative to WWE in two decades. This is sort of the key here. Khan has more backing financially than any WWE competitor since WCW, it had Turner more than willing to place them on Mondays (something Khan had said was offered to him before Dynamite started) and likely other means to hurt Vince in ways he has done to competitors but frankly, the major initiations on stuff have been done by WWE to AEW. Putting NXT against AEW right away, putting Roman Reigns and Brock Lesnar against Rampage, trying to act like the oppressed party in shareholders calls, just some weird stuff that nobody would be talking about if they just backed off a bit but that’s how they’ve been with competitions. Is Khan the perfect owner? No, he should have more people around him to lighten the load for certain aspects, he speaks when he really shouldn’t and at the end of the day, he’s still a billionaire’s son so his understanding of the world is still that of a billionaire’s son but if we’re going to act like he’s out to get Vince, he’s doing a really terrible job at hurting him, especially financially.
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Post by The Trashman on Jun 1, 2022 12:30:51 GMT -5
If they are paying Mark Henry and the Big Show more money than MJF its bad business.
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Post by eJm on Jun 1, 2022 12:47:32 GMT -5
I…guess we’re finding out more tonight, then?
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Post by Hypnosis on Jun 1, 2022 12:53:12 GMT -5
If they are paying Mark Henry and the Big Show more money than MJF its bad business. "Well, that's enough talk....it's TIME for me to get overpaid!"
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