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Post by horsemen4ever on Jun 30, 2022 20:45:11 GMT -5
Cartoons of the 1980's gets this reputation of black and white morality, bad guys will always be bad guys, and good guys will always be good guys. It changed in the 90's with shows like Gargoyles and Batman: The Animated Series, that is the narrative.
But I think the cartoons of 80's have some character development that we over look.
The biggest example, Cyril Sneer, if you watch the show in order, you don't notice, but if you watched one of the specials, or a season 1 episode, and follow that with a season 5 episode, he is so different.
Another example the Misfits, they go from schemes that put lives in danger, wanting to destroy Jem and the Holograms, to just wanting to one up them, and no schemes that nearly kill people.
Even Beastly, by the end he just becomes a frenemy to the Care Bears.
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CMWaters
Ozymandius
Rolled a Seven, Beat the Ads.
Bald and busy
Posts: 63,089 
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Post by CMWaters on Jun 30, 2022 21:07:51 GMT -5
Skeletor learned the true meaning of Christmas.
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Post by James Fabiano on Jun 30, 2022 21:09:40 GMT -5
Skeletor learned the true meaning of Christmas. But he doesn't like to feel good! He likes to feel evil! Nightshade from C.O.P.S. turns face near the end. |
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Post by wildojinx on Jun 30, 2022 21:15:25 GMT -5
Zarana looked like they were setting up an eventual face turn, but we never got a season 3 for GI Joe, and by the time of the DIC series she was with Destro.
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Post by James Fabiano on Jun 30, 2022 21:50:26 GMT -5
Zarana looked like they were setting up an eventual face turn, but we never got a season 3 for GI Joe, and by the time of the DIC series she was with Destro. Cobra Commander technically did in the movie, only in DIC, he's now Serpentor's pet until he's changed back, then back to square one. |
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Post by Bang Bang Bart on Jul 1, 2022 5:46:47 GMT -5
Zarana looked like they were setting up an eventual face turn, but we never got a season 3 for GI Joe, and by the time of the DIC series she was with Destro. Cobra Commander technically did in the movie, only in DIC, he's now Serpentor's pet until he's changed back, then back to square one. Speaking of DIC’s GI Joe, Cobra as a group kinda had a face turn when they fought with the Joes versus the Headhunters drug gang (though Cobra Commander was only in it for the money). |
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CMWaters
Ozymandius
Rolled a Seven, Beat the Ads.
Bald and busy
Posts: 63,089
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Post by CMWaters on Jul 1, 2022 5:54:40 GMT -5
Zarana looked like they were setting up an eventual face turn, but we never got a season 3 for GI Joe, and by the time of the DIC series she was with Destro. Well, that's because she was upset with her topless scene being cut. Seriously, they were gonna have her topless in the G.I. Joe movie for a scene, look it up. |
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Futureraven: Beelzebruv
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
The Ultimate Arbiter of Right And Wrong
Spent half my life here, God help me
Posts: 15,078
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Post by Futureraven: Beelzebruv on Jul 1, 2022 6:09:22 GMT -5
Zarana looked like they were setting up an eventual face turn, but we never got a season 3 for GI Joe, and by the time of the DIC series she was with Destro. Similarly, Vanessa Warfield in MASK had a flirty thing going with Brad Turner and by the end of the racing series it looked like she was on the way to being a more Catwoman type antagonist, so a tweener at least. At like, 4-5 it was the first time I saw something like that, but then the series ended. |
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Post by thechase on Jul 1, 2022 6:37:51 GMT -5
Zarana looked like they were setting up an eventual face turn, but we never got a season 3 for GI Joe, and by the time of the DIC series she was with Destro. Similarly, Vanessa Warfield in MASK had a flirty thing going with Brad Turner and by the end of the racing series it looked like she was on the way to being a more Catwoman type antagonist, so a tweener at least. At like, 4-5 it was the first time I saw something like that, but then the series ended. I have the whole series and rewatch it a lot. They were building Vanessa up to be V.E.N.O.M leader in some episodes. You're right in she was sort of tweenerish in the last ever episode and really warmed to Brad at the end when he acted all gentlemanly to her. It was a nice way for the series to go out, with the hope that romance could blossom between M.A.S.K and V.E.N.OM agents. A few others In Centurions, Amber turned babyface for a whole episode trying to stop her father from doing something with Jake Rockwell's help, in another two-parter, Doc Terror and Hacker teamed with the Centurions to stop a rogue creation of theirs called Uniborg. BTW, I know this isn't technically a 'cartoon', but the live-action show T-Bag ended virtually every season with her sidekick T-Shirt turning babyface. By the end of the series, the second T-Bag was even a lovable protagonist |
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Sephiroth
Wade Wilson
Surviving
Posts: 28,961
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Post by Sephiroth on Jul 1, 2022 8:35:59 GMT -5
Not exactly slow, but I always figured Skyfire would get resurrected to join the Autobots
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Post by KAMALARAMBO: BOOMSHAKALAKA!!! on Jul 1, 2022 9:15:45 GMT -5
It wasn’t a complete face turn, but I remember one Transformers G1 episode or multi-episode arc where the Autobots and Decepticons had to battle a common enemy. Or maybe one of the Decepticon’s plans was so disastrous another Decepticon had to step up and work against it for damage control.
Anyway, it was one of the Seekers. Probably either Thundercracker or Skywarp. At one point one of the Autobots even asks him if he wants to switch teams, but he politely declines.
It’s NOT Jetfire and I’m almost positive it’s a season 2 multi-parter. Anyone know what I’m talking about?
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Post by James Fabiano on Jul 1, 2022 9:21:38 GMT -5
Lots of Transformers examples coming up. So let me name...BLITZWING.
It did look like they were going to do a face turn/Con in exile angle after Five Faces of Darkness. But...they realized they didn't have to push Blitzwing figure sales anymore so we never see him again (he probably effin' extinguished his own spark) and they replaced him with Octane for the outcast role in Starscream's Ghost.
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Post by James Fabiano on Jul 1, 2022 9:28:19 GMT -5
Cobra Commander technically did in the movie, only in DIC, he's now Serpentor's pet until he's changed back, then back to square one. Speaking of DIC’s GI Joe, Cobra as a group kinda had a face turn when they fought with the Joes versus the Headhunters drug gang (though Cobra Commander was only in it for the money). Same thing happened on C.O.P.S. (hey, who produced that?) Would Mr. Dinkel on Shirt Tales count? I remember him starting out as being more antagonistic, then later on he got along better with the animals. Not cartoon, not the 80s only, not even a TV show, but...in McDonaldland, the Evil Grimace drops the evil. Similarly, the Hamburglar pretty much became diluted such that he was just a troublesome friend of Ronald's. Another ad, and this happened in the 90s and was a quick double turn, but Chip the dog turns face and Cookie Cop aka Officer Crumb heel. (Then Chip turns into a WOLF...is he a Pokemon?) |
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Post by KAMALARAMBO: BOOMSHAKALAKA!!! on Jul 1, 2022 9:45:18 GMT -5
A GI Joe one that started out cool, but ended lazily, Storm Shadow being the only honorable Cobra in the Sunbow Series. At the start of the DIC series Storm Shadows is suddenly with GI Joe with no real explanation given.
I’m pretty sure Larry Hama made the turn more interesting in the comics, but for the 1980’s cartoons I think that’s all we got.
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Dr. T is an alien
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I've been found out!
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Post by Dr. T is an alien on Jul 1, 2022 10:15:46 GMT -5
Not exactly slow, but I always figured Skyfire would get resurrected to join the Autobots He did, but it was off screen. He was part of the Autobots during the "Cybertron brought to Earth orbit" storyline, though he was mainly just there as a transport. |
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Post by KAMALARAMBO: BOOMSHAKALAKA!!! on Jul 1, 2022 11:48:48 GMT -5
Not exactly slow, but I always figured Skyfire would get resurrected to join the Autobots He did, but it was off screen. He was part of the Autobots during the "Cybertron brought to Earth orbit" storyline, though he was mainly just there as a transport. As a kid I had the old VHS tapes of standalone episodes and one of them was Fire in the Sky. Watching it as a stand-alone episode makes the sacrifice of Skyfire/Jetfire so much more poignant. I watched the episodes a ton on TV too and I don’t know why, but for some reason it never stayed with me for long that Skyfire was eventually rescued. When the Rhino DVDs came out I was surprised not only that Skyfire returned, but how many episodes he was featured in! Again, these weren’t new viewings for me as I clearly remembered these episodes, but I guess that was just a blindspot for me as it may have been for Sephiroth that Skyfire comes back after his first appearance. On a related note how messed up is that of the Autobots? Essentially they mourned him and left him dead for all intents and purposes. Then a lightbulb goes off for them after he’s been buried for God knows how long. So they EVENTUALLY rescue him so he can help with the Decepticon’s latest offense. I’m sure they have some halfhearted reasoning in the cartoon, but on the surface that is just so messed up. |
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Post by James Fabiano on Jul 1, 2022 14:54:07 GMT -5
A GI Joe one that started out cool, but ended lazily, is the DIC era in a nutshell. |
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Post by James Fabiano on Jul 1, 2022 15:03:31 GMT -5
Cartoons of the 1980's gets this reputation of black and white morality, bad guys will always be bad guys, and good guys will always be good guys. It changed in the 90's with shows like Gargoyles and Batman: The Animated Series, that is the narrative. But I think the cartoons of 80's have some character development that we over look.
The biggest example, Cyril Sneer, if you watch the show in order, you don't notice, but if you watched one of the specials, or a season 1 episode, and follow that with a season 5 episode, he is so different. Another example the Misfits, they go from schemes that put lives in danger, wanting to destroy Jem and the Holograms, to just wanting to one up them, and no schemes that nearly kill people. Even Beastly, by the end he just becomes a frenemy to the Care Bears. Oh early series Cyril is still abrasive, if no longer dangerous. But even then they were adding little bits here and there to make you sympathize with him. I think he got really easier going when they introduced Lisa and Bentley. He got along better with them than the original three, in fact. (maybe it was the history, or in context of the show only, he didn't trust the media, which Bert and company worked on) |
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Post by KAMALARAMBO: BOOMSHAKALAKA!!! on Jul 1, 2022 16:27:32 GMT -5
Found the answer to the near Decepticon face turn I mentioned earlier!
It was Blitzwing in the Five Faces of Darkness Five Parter. I misremembered thinking it was one of the Seekers in season 2, but it was actually one of the triple changers in season 3!
It’s been forever since I’ve watched Five Faces of Darkness hence why I misremembered so much about it. I thought the five parter REALLY dragged in some places which is why It’s been so long since I last watched it. But I liked that Bltizwing part of it. Also, coming out right after the movie and being a five episode feature length story it’s kind of the closest thing we ever got to a real Transformers: The Movie sequel.
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Futureraven: Beelzebruv
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
The Ultimate Arbiter of Right And Wrong
Spent half my life here, God help me
Posts: 15,078
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Post by Futureraven: Beelzebruv on Jul 2, 2022 6:34:24 GMT -5
Found the answer to the near Decepticon face turn I mentioned earlier! It was Blitzwing in the Five Faces of Darkness Five Parter. I misremembered thinking it was one of the Seekers in season 2, but it was actually one of the triple changers in season 3! It’s been forever since I’ve watched Five Faces of Darkness hence why I misremembered so much about it. I thought the five parter REALLY dragged in some places which is why It’s been so long since I last watched it. But I liked that Bltizwing part of it. Also, coming out right after the movie and being a five episode feature length story it’s kind of the closest thing we ever got to a real Transformers: The Movie sequel. I think there were some vhs editions that were literally sold as Transformers The Movie 2 |
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