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Post by sungod2020 on Jul 28, 2022 10:21:41 GMT -5
As we know 1999 was the financial peak of the Attitude Era. It was a fun time to be a mark, and everybody on the roster had something to do(one of the few things Vinny Ru is praised for). While almost everybody on the roster was indeed over in some way, creatively it wasn't the company's best year, nor has much of it aged well. If you read my thread asking if the Attitude Era was wall-to-wall wrestlecrap then you'll notice much of the angles I listed and discussed in that thread were 1999. One of the most infamous ones was the botched Higher Power angle where it was revealed Vince McMahon sent the company(and his own family) into chaos just to get into Austin's head. While the smark in me hated the reveal, the kayfabe mark in me appreciated the lengths he would go just to mess with the Texas Rattlesnake. At the time I was pretty much going along with the product. The only thing I remember questioning was the Beaver Cleavage character, an out of touch manchild who had an unhealthy fixation with his "mom." Even as a 12 year old mark, I knew it was in bad taste and wasn't going to last. If you wanted to introduce your non-wrestling friends to the product, this obviously wouldn't be the best place to start. That's not to say this questionable year didn't have it's high points such as Mick Foley's 1st WWF title win, The Rock's continual rise as the top babyface, Triple H's rise to the top, and Chris Jericho's debut. It also produced a pretty good Summerslam with then-Minnesota Governor Jesse "The Body" Ventura making his WWF return to referee the triple threat World title match between "Stone Cold" Steve Austin, Triple H, and Mankind. The lowlight had to be Owen Hart falling to his death in a stunt gone wrong, originally meant to keep up with the buffoonery of his "Blue Blazer" character. Once the new year began, the company produced less crap, the fact that Vince Russo defected to WCW in October certainly helped as there was less emphasis on the crash TV element and more focus on the in-ring product. In fact, ALOT has changed from August 1999 to February 2000, but still felt like the same company, just a slightly altered roster. So what are your thoughts on the lost year of the World Wrestling Federation? |
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Post by buckethead on Jul 28, 2022 10:29:45 GMT -5
The main event scene at the time still holds up.
The rest is garbage.
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Post by James Fabiano on Jul 28, 2022 10:57:56 GMT -5
Your link goes back to this thread. Just mentioning.
Business was still up, but Russo was leaning even more into Russo things at this point. If that makes sense. It would carry over when he jumped to WCW.
And of course one of the business' lowest points of all time happened here, so that kind of colors my opinion about it too.
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Post by sungod2020 on Jul 28, 2022 11:21:40 GMT -5
Your link goes back to this thread. Just mentioning. Business was still up, but Russo was leaning even more into Russo things at this point. If that makes sense. It would carry over when he jumped to WCW. And of course one of the business' lowest points of all time happened here, so that kind of colors my opinion about it too. Thank you for pointing that out. I just fixed it. |
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Post by Futureraven: Beelzebruv on Jul 28, 2022 11:26:13 GMT -5
The main event scene at the time still holds up. The rest is garbage. Even there, I'd say the booking was starting to get so convoluted, it was a snake eating it's own tail. It was great at the time, and had fantastic wrestlers and personalities to carry the material, but after St Valentine's Day Massacre it started to get a little messy, leading to the confusing mess of a Wrestlemania, going around the same beats and circles in more confusing ways. |
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Post by cjh on Jul 28, 2022 11:33:39 GMT -5
Wasn't 2000 the most financially successful year of that era? The April 2000 - March 2001 time period would have been the most profitable year in company history up to that point if not for the XFL expenses.
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Post by sungod2020 on Jul 28, 2022 11:41:24 GMT -5
Wasn't 2000 the most financially successful year of that era? The April 2000 - March 2001 time period would have been the most profitable year in company history up to that point if not for the XFL expenses. How are we measuring business metrics? Ratings? PPV Buy rates? Ticket sales? Merchandise? I know Wrestlemania X-7 was fittingly the most bought PPV at the time, being the first one to break the 1 million mark, but for the previous six months, viewership was slightly down. Part of that was RAW moving from USA to TNN, but creatively, the end of 2000 kinda trailed off starting with the botch Triple H/Stephanie McMahon/Kurt Angle love triangle and Rikishi being revealed as the driver who ran over "Stone Cold" Steve Austin at Survivor Series. Granted, that period was still leagues better(both creatively and financially) than what we got today, but their peak was behind them at that point. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2022 11:47:43 GMT -5
So I was a kid who was allowed to watch back then and I loved it at the time, but it's not a year I ever want to watch because I feel most of it won't hold up. At least in the first half of the year, anyway.
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Post by cjh on Jul 28, 2022 11:50:53 GMT -5
Wasn't 2000 the most financially successful year of that era? The April 2000 - March 2001 time period would have been the most profitable year in company history up to that point if not for the XFL expenses. How are we measuring business metrics? Ratings? PPV Buy rates? Ticket sales? Merchandise? I know Wrestlemania X-7 was fittingly the most bought PPV at the time, being the first one to break the 1 million mark, but for the previous six months, viewership was slightly down. Part of that was RAW moving from USA to TNN, but creatively, the end of 2000 kinda trailed off starting with the botch Triple H/Stephanie McMahon/Kurt Angle love triangle and Rikishi being revealed as the driver who ran over "Stone Cold" Steve Austin at Survivor Series. Granted, that period was still leagues better(both creatively and financially) than what we got today, but their peak was behind them at that point. They had revenue of $251,500,000 in 1999 (April 1999 to March 2000) and $379,300,000 in 2000 (April 2000 to March 2001). |
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Post by Cyno on Jul 28, 2022 12:18:36 GMT -5
Most revenue doesn't necessarily mean most financial success. Depends on costs, too. Excluding the XFL, if they incurred more expenses, then despite the higher revenue, they wouldn't be as financially successful if it meant lower profits and other metrics.
Ratings also wouldn't really be a part of that either way. They might have played a role years later when it came time to negotiate a new rights deal. But not that year since they just got to TNN.
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Post by nickcave on Jul 28, 2022 12:48:06 GMT -5
if you like good in-ring action 1999 was probably the worst year for that
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Post by cjh on Jul 28, 2022 12:58:10 GMT -5
Most revenue doesn't necessarily mean most financial success. Depends on costs, too. Excluding the XFL, if they incurred more expenses, then despite the higher revenue, they wouldn't be as financially successful if it meant lower profits and other metrics. Ratings also wouldn't really be a part of that either way. They might have played a role years later when it came time to negotiate a new rights deal. But not that year since they just got to TNN. They made a healthy profit in 2000 even with the XFL, but without it, they would have shattered all records up to that point. |
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Post by Magic knows Black Lives Matter on Jul 28, 2022 13:21:53 GMT -5
So, I’ve actually been watching the Raw’s from this time period recently. Was literally in the process of re-watching king of the ring.
Man, it is just NOT hitting like 98 did. You can kinda tell the creative team was already running into the walls that pop up with crash tv. Being blunt, particularly since we are currently in an era where matches go dummy long for no reason other than cuz, I got no problem with the quick matches but they were just doing ANYTHING, dawg. The build up to mania 15 was a f***ing mess. This ministry of darkness is buns, and there’s the constant question of what the hell’s left for Austin to do that’s not just constantly being champion. Mans just became CEO too, haha.
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Post by Cyno on Jul 28, 2022 13:24:01 GMT -5
if you like good in-ring action 1999 was probably the worst year for that That's why 2000 and early 2001 were my favorite years of WWF. It scaled back a lot of the crash TV elements and dramatically improved the in-ring action. Unsurprisingly this coincided with Russo leaving for WCW and stinking up that joint. |
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Post by eJm on Jul 28, 2022 15:12:11 GMT -5
1999 was the year of the Corporate Ministry and the Higher Power angle.
If that doesn’t say it all about the state of 1999, not sure what does.
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Post by Magic knows Black Lives Matter on Jul 28, 2022 15:15:04 GMT -5
1999 was the year of the Corporate Ministry and the Higher Power angle. If that doesn’t say it all about the state of 1999, not sure what does. The higher power thing is hilarious cause the show starts with Vince challenging Shane to a big “Winner Take All” match that night. Shane comes out and accepts but notes that he has bigger fish to fry cause he’s about to unveil the hower power. Hmmm, k. They go to commercial, come back to the big reveal of…Vince? Who walked to the back JUST so he could come right back out and do the reveal? …What, hahaha? Oh and of course, no match. Just a lovely train wreck |
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Post by eJm on Jul 28, 2022 15:17:05 GMT -5
1999 was the year of the Corporate Ministry and the Higher Power angle. If that doesn’t say it all about the state of 1999, not sure what does. The higher power thing is hilarious cause the show starts with Vince challenging Shane to a big “Winner Take All” match that night. Shane comes out and accepts but notes that he has bigger fish to fry cause he’s about to unveil the hower power. Hmmm, k. They go to commercial, come back to the big reveal of…Vince? Who walked to the back JUST so he could come right back out and do the reveal? …What, hahaha? Oh and of course, no match. Just a lovely train wreck You’re ignoring the best part of the whole thing. Before they revealed the Higher Power, Vince appeared on video to say that he hopes whoever the Higher Power is will suffer the wrath of him for what they did to his family. Which turned out to be him anyway. EDIT: Like, look, I get that the idea was that Austin drove him so crazy he was pushed to do it but Vince was one of the biggest babyfaces in the company and a family feud after everything was money so to waste it just to do a swerve? The f*** gives? |
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Post by sungod2020 on Jul 28, 2022 15:36:43 GMT -5
1999 was the year of the Corporate Ministry and the Higher Power angle. If that doesn’t say it all about the state of 1999, not sure what does. IMO, the Hower Power angle was fine up to the actual reveal. They could've gotten mileage out of it if it went something like this..... www.wrestlecrap.com/more/rewriting/what-if-vince-wasnt-the-higher-power/{Spoiler}{SPOILER: CLICK TO SHOW}
Okay, so realistically Jake Roberts wasn't able to fulfill the role of a high profile angle given the state he was in at the time, but there was no denying It was compelling and had potential to drag on all the way until Summerslam as the story indicates. |
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Post by eJm on Jul 28, 2022 15:38:37 GMT -5
1999 was the year of the Corporate Ministry and the Higher Power angle. If that doesn’t say it all about the state of 1999, not sure what does. IMO, the Hower Power angle was fine up to the actual reveal. They could've gotten mileage out of it if it went something like this..... www.wrestlecrap.com/more/rewriting/what-if-vince-wasnt-the-higher-power/{Spoiler}{Spoiler}{SPOILER: CLICK TO SHOW}
Okay, so realistically Jake Roberts wasn't able to fulfill the role of a high profile angle given the state he was in at the time, but there was no denying It was compelling and had potential to drag on all the way until Summerslam as the story indicates. Yeah, the reveal pretty much unraveled the entire thing and made it a total mess from a story perspective. Everything before that was fine and did the job. |
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Post by cjh on Jul 28, 2022 15:42:54 GMT -5
1999 was the year of the Corporate Ministry and the Higher Power angle. If that doesn’t say it all about the state of 1999, not sure what does. The higher power thing is hilarious cause the show starts with Vince challenging Shane to a big “Winner Take All” match that night. Shane comes out and accepts but notes that he has bigger fish to fry cause he’s about to unveil the hower power. Hmmm, k. They go to commercial, come back to the big reveal of…Vince? Who walked to the back JUST so he could come right back out and do the reveal? …What, hahaha? Oh and of course, no match. Just a lovely train wreck As part of the HP angle and the angle leading to The Rock joining The Corporation months earlier, Vince, in the storyline, let himself get his ass kicked on more than one occasion to sell the con. He even had an entire match with Shane on Raw a month before the HP reveal. |
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