Eunös ✈
Dalek
Duck Feet Expert
Tolerated, just not practically liked.
Posts: 59,198
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Post by Eunös ✈ on Aug 16, 2022 18:32:51 GMT -5
What do people think of Ric Flair's run with WWF between 91-93.
I was pretty young at the time so I must admit I wasn't really aware of Flairs accomplishments outside of WWF.
For most part I guess he will always be seen as an NWA/WCW guy for most of his career, looking back now I can see what a big deal it must have been signing Flair at the time.
I'm aware of the story of him falling out with WCW's new head guy and not wanting to do the sparticus character and even him taking the WCW title to WWF with him, I guess in a way this would have been like if Cody took the AEW title to WWE when he re joined them.
So whilst there were definitely some memorable moments like his 1992 Royal Rumble win, it also feels like there were some missed opportunities like not having him Face Hulk Hogan at Wrestlemania.
In the end it was a pretty short run as he ended up returning to WCW in early 1993 and we wouldn't see him back in WWF/E again until just after the Invasion angle in 2001.
So all in all was his run a success?, could it have been a lot better?, Was it just fine?.
Curious to see what you guys think.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2022 18:52:11 GMT -5
So much yet so little it's wild. The fact that he took the big gold over and later used a modified tag that was blurred is one fascinating aspect of it. The fact that his hasbro figure was molded from the same photoshoot used in the WWF Royal Rumble video game another one...The multiple dark matches Hogan and Flair had that we never saw...Just such a strange run filled with little interesting tidbits. Will be curious to read other's experiences too.
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Post by "Playboy" Don Douglas on Aug 16, 2022 21:21:26 GMT -5
To me, it was a big deal because I was aware of his NWA career, and the history he had with the likes of Piper, Valentine, Von Erich, etc.
I understand it was disappointing from a box office standpoint, but I enjoyed the hell out of it. I think if anything, he was still a bit out of place in that setting, so it never fully clicked.
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tafkaga
Samurai Cop
the Dogfather
Posts: 2,118
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Post by tafkaga on Aug 16, 2022 22:05:01 GMT -5
His arrival was very surreal. I was so excited for it but he wasn't the same flair. The first thing they got wrong was ditching the expensive suits and sunglasses and instead doing all of his promos and non-wrestling appearances in his robes. Just looked silly. Then you had Gorilla constantly undermining Flair's legitimacy on commentary. They had us convinced that Flair really wasn't that big of a deal before he got booked for his first pay-per-view. They booked Ric Flair like he was Buddy Landell.
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Post by ThankGodForSidJustice on Aug 16, 2022 22:14:39 GMT -5
The Rumble win was definitely the highlight. Just a great performance. However even that it was kind of flawed in that how was that supposed to get heat on him as a heel? The guy hung in there an hour, took the fight to everyone, took beatings from everyone and kept fighting back. I mean he kind of got lucky with the Hogan/Sid deal at the end but you can't really fault him for that. He was just taking advantage of a situation caused by Hogan being a big whiner.
As for his whole run in general I thought it was good but very disappointing too. I don't think he really had a feud that was that great. Not doing a big Hogan match was a missed opportunity. The Piper feud was kind of whatever and didn't really go anywhere as they moved Piper into the IC title picture instead. The Savage feud dragged post Mania. Their feud in WCW in 95-96 was much better. Then he lost the title to Bret as a result of Vince losing faith in him. The Perfect feud seemed like it had potential but then he was gone not long after.
I think he was a victim of the younger WWF fanbase. Like obviously he was one of the biggest names in the industry and he was a big deal with the hardcores but I think for your average kid WWF fan at the time like myself it was like "who is this old guy, why is he winning all the time, and how I'm supposed to take him seriously against these cartoon superheroes come to life like Hogan, Warrior, and Macho Man?" I love the 1992 Royal Rumble match now and it honestly might be my favorite match ever as I've probably watched it more then any match but watching it on VHS when I was four or whatever I was like "how did this guy win over Hogan and Sid Justice?".
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Post by bluebeach25 on Aug 16, 2022 22:20:23 GMT -5
Hogan vs Flair should have been the WM 8 Match
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2022 22:24:13 GMT -5
I was super excited when he showed up but he never felt like Ric Flair during that run especially on promos but in the ring as well.
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Post by ThankGodForSidJustice on Aug 16, 2022 22:26:09 GMT -5
His arrival was very surreal. I was so excited for it but he wasn't the same flair. The first thing they got wrong was ditching the expensive suits and sunglasses and instead doing all of his promos and non-wrestling appearances in his robes. Just looked silly. Then you had Gorilla constantly undermining Flair's legitimacy on commentary. They had us convinced that Flair really wasn't that big of a deal before he got booked for his first pay-per-view. They booked Ric Flair like he was Buddy Landell. I did like them playing him up as an outsider early on. I thought that was a direction that had potential. However they also dropped the ball on that pretty quickly in that it was hard to buy him as this outsider when he's leading a Survivor Series team including the fake Canadian cop and the dude with the phantom of the opera mask. Looking back and IDK if Hogan-Flair was the plan for Mania and not Hogan-Sid but maybe they should've did Hogan and Flair at Survivor Series instead and skipped the Undertaker stuff. You keep Flair's outsider gimmick and have him and Hogan with some sort of controversial finish to set up the title being on the line in the Rumble. Then you could've put Taker on Jake's team instead which would've made more sense since they were allies at the time and feuding with Sid. IRS then could've been taken off Jake's team and put in Flair's spot to team with Dibiase/Mountie/Warlord.
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tirtefaa
Unicron
If you wanna know the truth, you gotta dig up Johnny Booth.
Posts: 2,852
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Post by tirtefaa on Aug 17, 2022 5:03:59 GMT -5
I was super excited when he showed up but he never felt like Ric Flair during that run especially on promos but in the ring as well. Yeah, I mean that's where I'm at. You put anyone else in that role and it would be the highlight of their career. But Ric? It was just okay. His Rumble win was an obvious highlight, but that match was good for other reasons other than just him. Subsequently, he was involved mostly with Savage, which I considered their matches in WCW better. So all and all, I don't think it really matches the same level as most of his WCW stuff. Given the opportunity, I think providing him more opponents would have been nice. He really only had Piper and Savage and I guess to a lesser extent Warrior, but not having a match at SummerSlam and being stuck in mostly multi man matches just didn't provide for quality feuds. Heck, he could have easily dropped the title to Hart at Survivor Series instead of at a house show.
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Post by David-Arquette was in WCW 2000 on Aug 17, 2022 7:35:00 GMT -5
I was too young as it happened, but watching a lot that run in hindsight I quite enjoy it. He's not the same Flair that we got in NWA or when he went back to WCW. It's a combination of him both not really fitting in with the scene and style of the WWF and him not being treated as big of a deal as he was in the 80s.
However, it was a decent run for those couple years, though I don't care what the house show gates were like, Ric should have faced Hogan at Wrestlemania.
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Post by koreycaskets on Aug 17, 2022 11:44:14 GMT -5
All I know is I was at a house show in Newmarket Ontario (just outside of Bizzaroland Toronto) Around 2000 people there, and with Flair (heel) Randy Savage (face) 90% of the crowd popped HUGE any time Flair did anything. Bood the hell out of Savage. Was almost like a Hogan Rock thing but we'll much smaller.
When the decision was reversed and Flair didn't win because Perfect interfered after Flair pinned Savage the crowd became legit almost riot hostile.
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SmashTV
Dennis Stamp
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Post by SmashTV on Aug 17, 2022 12:25:39 GMT -5
I enjoyed it at the time, as I wasn’t a Hogan fan and it was nice to see someone else in the spotlight. With hindsight though, it was a bit underwhelming for ‘Ric Flair’. Two titles and a Rumble win is nothing to sniff at, but he was there during a transitional time and wasn’t given the chance to have epic matches. Granted, the WWF approach was still vastly different to that of NWA/WCW, but when he lost the ‘loser leaves the WWF match’ in 1993, it didn’t really impact on the product.
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4real
Wade Wilson
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Post by 4real on Aug 17, 2022 12:33:11 GMT -5
I was just getting into wrestling so was about 6 or 7 when he debuted. He honestly didn’t make a big impression on me at the time but as a kid the big characters like Hogan, Warrior, Taker, Savage etc were more my thing. Flair just came off as an old dude and not very cool.
In hindsight obviously it was a big deal but I had no clue how big Flair was back then. I didn’t see his Rumble win until years later and had no idea him v Hogan was seen as this big dream match. I didn’t start watching WCW by 92 I think and he was obviously in WWF at the time so didn’t see any of his prior NWA/WCW work.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Aug 17, 2022 14:32:49 GMT -5
His arrival was very surreal. I was so excited for it but he wasn't the same flair. The first thing they got wrong was ditching the expensive suits and sunglasses and instead doing all of his promos and non-wrestling appearances in his robes. Just looked silly. Then you had Gorilla constantly undermining Flair's legitimacy on commentary. They had us convinced that Flair really wasn't that big of a deal before he got booked for his first pay-per-view. They booked Ric Flair like he was Buddy Landell. 99% sure it was intentional too. I know that Bruce always uses the line "why would we spend so much money on someone just to intentionally crap on them on tv" when horrible booking is brought up but a person with any common sense could tell you that one act you don't change is Flair's if you want the same results.
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Post by DZ: WF Legacy on Aug 17, 2022 14:42:18 GMT -5
It's crazy to me that Ric's departure from WWF ended right as RAW began. He wrestled like 2 matches on it and was gone, only returning again just under a decade later.
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fw91
Patti Mayonnaise
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Post by fw91 on Aug 17, 2022 16:18:42 GMT -5
I always wondered why he went back to WCW. By all accounts he was very happy and loved his time in WWF. Yeah they were going with younger guys into the new generation but they could have still used him as a nice fall back option to feud with Bret or turn face to feud with Shawn.
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tafkaga
Samurai Cop
the Dogfather
Posts: 2,118
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Post by tafkaga on Aug 17, 2022 16:34:35 GMT -5
I always wondered why he went back to WCW. By all accounts he was very happy and loved his time in WWF. Yeah they were going with younger guys into the new generation but they could have still used him as a nice fall back option to feud with Bret or turn face to feud with Shawn. I believe the story was that Vince didn't have anything else for him. I would bet that the original plan was to do a Hogan vs. Flair (and his NWA belt) to demonstrate that the competition's biggest star didn't measure up to WWF standards. Then, when he turned out not to be the draw they thought he would be, they used Rumble '92 to try to get him over so they could go back to the original plan. Only by then, Hogan was on his way out, so they had to go with their #2.
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Post by buckethead on Aug 17, 2022 17:54:00 GMT -5
Hogan vs Flair should have been the WM 8 Match In a perfect world? Yes. Hogan vs Flair was the dream match of the 80s...hyped for years in various magazines. I used to salivate reading the fantasy matches of Flair vs Hogan, Flair vs Martel, or Martel vs Hogan. McMahon was way ahead of the curve on this issue. He figured out quickly (through house shows) that this is only a dream match on paper. It doesn't work in reality...their styles don't mesh. Sadly...and almost unbelievably, these matches were booked better here than they were later on in WCW. What makes these matches/feuds even worse is Flair is not allowed to win. Any legit interest or hype dies when you realize he isn't going to win no matter what the circumstances are. I remember when Hogan came to WCW and they immediately set the course for the matchup. I was intrigued for about five minutes. When you can't even get hardcore Flair fans like me and various friends and cousins onboard...it's not working. Having Hogan-Flair as the main event at WrestleMania was a disaster waiting to happen. McMahon wisely shitcanned it. In hindsight...I believe Flair should have won(clean or at least no outside interference) the first match to create an element of suspense.
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Cranjis McBasketball
Crow T. Robot
Knew what the hell that thing was supposed to be
Peace Love and Nothing But
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Post by Cranjis McBasketball on Aug 17, 2022 17:59:03 GMT -5
I always wondered why he went back to WCW. By all accounts he was very happy and loved his time in WWF. Yeah they were going with younger guys into the new generation but they could have still used him as a nice fall back option to feud with Bret or turn face to feud with Shawn. Because he wasn’t happy. Vince was going to focus on his younger talent, Bret foremost but guys like Shawn as well. If Flair wasn’t at the top of the card, he had no interest in being there. Vince let him go, asking he lose to Perfect first and off he was to WCW to be back in main events.
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Post by GodzillaIsMyMonster on Aug 17, 2022 18:16:25 GMT -5
I always wondered why he went back to WCW. By all accounts he was very happy and loved his time in WWF. Yeah they were going with younger guys into the new generation but they could have still used him as a nice fall back option to feud with Bret or turn face to feud with Shawn. Because he wasn’t happy. Vince was going to focus on his younger talent, Bret foremost but guys like Shawn as well. If Flair wasn’t at the top of the card, he had no interest in being there. Vince let him go, asking he lose to Perfect first and off he was to WCW to be back in main events. If he'd never gone back to WCW, we'd never have gotten the Starrcade 93 main event of Flair vd Vader. That may be the greatest Starrcade main event of all time, so I'm glad he went back.
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