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Post by theironyuppie on Sept 21, 2022 14:01:56 GMT -5
Winning a lot is not the problem. ALWAYS winning, Always coming out on top of segments, and never facing any kind of adversity is. Hogan is the king of winning major feuds... but he ALWAYS faced adversity. Whether it be as big as Earthquake breaking his back, or his best friend Andre turning on him and the "How can Hogan beat the Undefeated and unslammable Andre?" If you just steam roll everyone it's boring. yeah the face should win... in the end. but they need to look vulnerable in some way leading up to that point to create doubts as to whether THIS is the one hill too high to climb for the face. though in hogan;s case he had the advantage of being able to vanish for weeks on end "selling his injury". nowadays it's like 'we can't have this person off screen for more than a week!?!? everyone might forget about them if we do!!!!" so whatever attack takes them out rarely has consequences for more than one week if they're not already back the following week. this has been the problem with bianca's run. i expect bayley to win the title (it is refreshing to see the tag team get the belts before the "leader" gets gold i have to say) and then let bianca and rhea feud next. their feud in nxt was pretty entertaining from what i recall
I think next week's Raw is going to be important now they gave Damage CTRL a moment at the end of the show. If Bianca just shrugs it off and does her usual, then it's going to mean less than if she at least acts a little affected by it. And it's not even necessarily vulnerable so much as creating at least a little suspense along the way.
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Post by EZ: Brainy Bae on Sept 21, 2022 14:24:21 GMT -5
Doesn't help that they don't like booking female "blood feuds" with personal stakes. Would really help for when they're not gunning for a title. Feel like that's an issue in a lot of women's wrestling in the televised companies. I don't watch enough WWE to recall examples where they've tried that, but AEW had a good one in Shida vs. Serena Deeb, and Rosa vs. Britt in their big Lights Out match was before either was champ, but it's hard to think of even just a few others. Many of the rest in all the companies either revolve around the titles at stake or don't really go to that next level where you could imagine the women involved just wanting to tear one another apart, getting to a point where the belts don't feel like they're needed. I think part of it is promotions don't want to be labelled portraying women as "catty" or the like, which is ridiculous considering the whole history of storytelling and TV particularly. Drama works for a reason and there's nothing wrong with using it, but I feel they're afraid to because they don't want people to think they aren't taking the women seriously now. The last ones I can recall were Ruby/Nattie when she was insulting the memory of Anvil (not the classiest thing sure, but it worked) and Naomi/Mandy when she was trying to seduce Jimmy Uso. The latter I enjoyed a lot and wasn't too risque. You need to give talents things to fight for besides title shots. Edit: On the main rosters anyway. NXT/2.0 has always been good about it.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2022 14:37:13 GMT -5
Feel like that's an issue in a lot of women's wrestling in the televised companies. I don't watch enough WWE to recall examples where they've tried that, but AEW had a good one in Shida vs. Serena Deeb, and Rosa vs. Britt in their big Lights Out match was before either was champ, but it's hard to think of even just a few others. Many of the rest in all the companies either revolve around the titles at stake or don't really go to that next level where you could imagine the women involved just wanting to tear one another apart, getting to a point where the belts don't feel like they're needed. I think part of it is promotions don't want to be labelled portraying women as "catty" or the like, which is ridiculous considering the whole history of storytelling and TV particularly. Drama works for a reason and there's nothing wrong with using it, but I feel they're afraid to because they don't want people to think they aren't taking the women seriously now. The last ones I can recall were Ruby/Nattie when she was insulting the memory of Anvil (not the classiest thing sure, but it worked) and Naomi/Mandy when she was trying to seduce Jimmy Uso. The latter I enjoyed a lot and wasn't too risque. You need to give talents things to fight for besides title shots. Edit: On the main rosters anyway. NXT/2.0 has always been good about it. That really is IMO the key to this entire thing. It can be said for every single talent that holds a title for a lengthy ammount of time they need to get away from the title and or even the division and go off and do some wacky character driven storylines , it is why Rhea is in the best possible position she could be in because she isn't needed around the title but when they do choose to push her back into that orbit it will be hugely welcomed because she has had time away to develop as a character. Bianca needs to drop the title to Bayley and maybe feud with Rhea outside the division , let the division revolve around Dmg Ctrl untill Mania.
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Post by Jindrak Mark on Sept 22, 2022 11:45:18 GMT -5
I think part of it is promotions don't want to be labelled portraying women as "catty" or the like, which is ridiculous considering the whole history of storytelling and TV particularly. Drama works for a reason and there's nothing wrong with using it, but I feel they're afraid to because they don't want people to think they aren't taking the women seriously now. The last ones I can recall were Ruby/Nattie when she was insulting the memory of Anvil (not the classiest thing sure, but it worked) and Naomi/Mandy when she was trying to seduce Jimmy Uso. The latter I enjoyed a lot and wasn't too risque. You need to give talents things to fight for besides title shots. Edit: On the main rosters anyway. NXT/2.0 has always been good about it. That really is IMO the key to this entire thing. It can be said for every single talent that holds a title for a lengthy ammount of time they need to get away from the title and or even the division and go off and do some wacky character driven storylines , it is why Rhea is in the best possible position she could be in because she isn't needed around the title but when they do choose to push her back into that orbit it will be hugely welcomed because she has had time away to develop as a character. Bianca needs to drop the title to Bayley and maybe feud with Rhea outside the division , let the division revolve around Dmg Ctrl untill Mania. Who is DC feuding with for the 6 months till Mania that will keep their momentum though if Bianca and Rhea the other top credible stars are tied up elsewhere? They've already been feuding with Alexa and Asuka for 2 months. They've beat Raquel and Aliyah. Becky might be back soon but she's going to return as a massive face and fans will want to see her booked strong again rather than the cowardly heel she was for a year so at most I can see her being screwed over/outsmarted for one PPV. That still leaves a lot of time to fill and people like Carmella and Dana just wouldn't be credible challengers. If Sasha/Naomi return that would obviously be the easy answer to slot into a feud with them but that's a big if because no one actually knows if they're returning.
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Bang Bang Bart
Ozymandius
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Post by Bang Bang Bart on Sept 22, 2022 13:48:23 GMT -5
I think part of it is promotions don't want to be labelled portraying women as "catty" or the like, which is ridiculous considering the whole history of storytelling and TV particularly. Drama works for a reason and there's nothing wrong with using it, but I feel they're afraid to because they don't want people to think they aren't taking the women seriously now. The last ones I can recall were Ruby/Nattie when she was insulting the memory of Anvil (not the classiest thing sure, but it worked) and Naomi/Mandy when she was trying to seduce Jimmy Uso. The latter I enjoyed a lot and wasn't too risque. You need to give talents things to fight for besides title shots. Edit: On the main rosters anyway. NXT/2.0 has always been good about it. That really is IMO the key to this entire thing. It can be said for every single talent that holds a title for a lengthy ammount of time they need to get away from the title and or even the division and go off and do some wacky character driven storylines , it is why Rhea is in the best possible position she could be in because she isn't needed around the title but when they do choose to push her back into that orbit it will be hugely welcomed because she has had time away to develop as a character. Bianca needs to drop the title to Bayley and maybe feud with Rhea outside the division , let the division revolve around Dmg Ctrl untill Mania. Maybe Bianca drops the belt to Bayley and we have Rhea trying to “corrupt” her, realizing her former(?) friend may be in a rut and trying to recruit her to Judgement Day.
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Post by The Kevstaaa on Sept 22, 2022 14:20:12 GMT -5
Yeah, I'm totally cool with Bianca being booked as the division's top star. I think she's better than other main female stars like Charlotte and Britt but I do agree that she needs to face more adversity.
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Post by ThankGodForSidJustice on Sept 22, 2022 14:56:48 GMT -5
That really is IMO the key to this entire thing. It can be said for every single talent that holds a title for a lengthy ammount of time they need to get away from the title and or even the division and go off and do some wacky character driven storylines , it is why Rhea is in the best possible position she could be in because she isn't needed around the title but when they do choose to push her back into that orbit it will be hugely welcomed because she has had time away to develop as a character. Bianca needs to drop the title to Bayley and maybe feud with Rhea outside the division , let the division revolve around Dmg Ctrl untill Mania. Who is DC feuding with for the 6 months till Mania that will keep their momentum though if Bianca and Rhea the other top credible stars are tied up elsewhere? They've already been feuding with Alexa and Asuka for 2 months. They've beat Raquel and Aliyah. Becky might be back soon but she's going to return as a massive face and fans will want to see her booked strong again rather than the cowardly heel she was for a year so at most I can see her being screwed over/outsmarted for one PPV. That still leaves a lot of time to fill and people like Carmella and Dana just wouldn't be credible challengers. If Sasha/Naomi return that would obviously be the easy answer to slot into a feud with them but that's a big if because no one actually knows if they're returning. That's why I don't understand why they are no longer doing the draft that was originally planned for next month as they really need to reshuffle the deck badly. Survivor Series is no longer going to have the brand warfare crap so that can't be a reason as in the past it made no sense when wrestlers were supposed to care about brand loyalty when most of them were on the opposite show like a month ago. As for Damage CTRL if they were to switch some people around they could possibly have fresh feuds with credible opponents like Ronda, Liv, or a face Charlotte. Like you said on Raw they just have Bianca, Alexa, and Asuka who they've feuded with the last few months and then Becky who they probably aren't going to be wanting to take many if any L's with her coming back from an injury and coming off a face turn.
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Post by mistery on Sept 22, 2022 16:11:53 GMT -5
Yeah, I'm totally cool with Bianca being booked as the division's top star. I think she's better than other main female stars like Charlotte and Britt but I do agree that she needs to face more adversity. I think the problem at the end of the day is that there are other women who should definitely be getting a run with the top title at some point, but that doesn't seem likely as long as Bianca is at the top of the division. Like maaaaaaaaaybe Dakota will get a top title run, but with Iyo likely being groomed to take Asuka's spot as the top Japanese woman in WWE at some point, and should get a top title run to cement that. But realistically can you see her beating Bianca? Or Becky? No, because she's been booked well below their level (or what would be seen as a top woman). The only reason she didn't get ran over by Bianca the night after Summerslam was because it was too soon for her to take a loss, but she was pretty much portrayed as being way below Bianca in every aspect. I have a feeling the division is going to revolve around Bayley, Becky, Bianca, and Rhea on RAW. Which limits how interesting the division can actually get, and limits the number of credible women you can see at the top of the division. And like it's been mentioned before, Bianca sells absolutely no one as a threat towards her which makes it even worse when she runs over them. If she comes out on RAW this Monday and acts like it wasn't a big deal last Monday, then it'll show WWE really hates her having any sort of vulnerability. She's basically one step removed from being a Mary-Sue level character.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Sept 22, 2022 18:20:40 GMT -5
Bootleg of my "Becky is OP thread" huh lol
In all seriousness, she can stand to take a few L's for sure. She hasn't even come close to Asuka/IYO NXT booking tho and I was way more fed up with them than I am with her
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Post by mistery on Sept 22, 2022 19:10:10 GMT -5
Bootleg of my "Becky is OP thread" huh lol In all seriousness, she can stand to take a few L's for sure. She hasn't even come close to Asuka/IYO NXT booking tho and I was way more fed up with them than I am with her Nah, in the case of Asuka, she was the champion of a division that had a severe lack of talent and depth. And in the case of Iyo, she was what many saw as one of the best women's champions in that belt's lineage, constantly putting on bangers, and there were quite a few times where people thought she would lose the title (Dakota and Candice spring to mind as the two biggest ones). Where with Bianca's stuff, it's very easy to tell if she's gonna keep the title or not, as none of her matches have any suspense at all. And haven't had it in a very long time.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Sept 22, 2022 19:18:59 GMT -5
Bootleg of my "Becky is OP thread" huh lol In all seriousness, she can stand to take a few L's for sure. She hasn't even come close to Asuka/IYO NXT booking tho and I was way more fed up with them than I am with her Nah, in the case of Asuka, she was the champion of a division that had a severe lack of talent and depth. And in the case of Iyo, she was what many saw as one of the best women's champions in that belt's lineage, constantly putting on bangers, and there were quite a few times where people thought she would lose the title (Dakota and Candice spring to mind as the two biggest ones).Where with Bianca's stuff, it's very easy to tell if she's gonna keep the title or not, as none of her matches have any suspense at all. And haven't had it in a very long time. Yeah, I call cap on that. Candice during his last chance people thought she could win only cause Iyo beat her every time including being the reason for her original heel turn in the first place Bianca has also put on bangers and there was a legit worry she would take an L to Becky at Mania and Summerslam
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2022 21:21:14 GMT -5
Nah, in the case of Asuka, she was the champion of a division that had a severe lack of talent and depth. And in the case of Iyo, she was what many saw as one of the best women's champions in that belt's lineage, constantly putting on bangers, and there were quite a few times where people thought she would lose the title (Dakota and Candice spring to mind as the two biggest ones).Where with Bianca's stuff, it's very easy to tell if she's gonna keep the title or not, as none of her matches have any suspense at all. And haven't had it in a very long time. Yeah, I call cap on that. Candice during his last chance people thought she could win only cause Iyo beat her every time including being the reason for her original heel turn in the first place Bianca has also put on bangers and there was a legit worry she would take an L to Becky at Mania and Summerslam There was absoloutley no worrie Bianca was losing at Mania everyone knew the story was her getting her revenge by taking the title from Becky at the biggest show. What worked with IYO's reign so well is that every single woman she faced came out better after facing her and all those women while they may have lost in the end were allowed to pretty much dominate IYO and that vulnerability made IYO'S title defences have that seed planted that any of those women (sans Aliyah because...Aliyah) could have beat her for the title , something that has been a severe problem with Biancas reign IMO.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Sept 22, 2022 21:38:33 GMT -5
Yeah, I call cap on that. Candice during his last chance people thought she could win only cause Iyo beat her every time including being the reason for her original heel turn in the first place Bianca has also put on bangers and there was a legit worry she would take an L to Becky at Mania and Summerslam There was absoloutley no worrie Bianca was losing at Mania everyone knew the story was her getting her revenge by taking the title from Becky at the biggest show. What worked with IYO's reign so well is that every single woman she faced came out better after facing her and all those women while they may have lost in the end were allowed to pretty much dominate IYO and that vulnerability made IYO'S title defences have that seed planted that any of those women (sans Aliyah because...Aliyah) could have beat her for the title , something that has been a severe problem with Biancas reign IMO. Did they tho? - She beat Candice twice in a month and then feuded with Shotzi before officially being Indi vet in The Way - Her first title defense was against Tegan Nox and then she beat Kai who settled into a team with Raquel - She beat Rhea before her call up - She beat Toni Storm (2x) and Mercedes. Mercedes had just came back after not doing Retribution and Toni heel turn was sort of there and after that L she got called up a few months later Io has a good run don't get me wrong she ran through her competition just like Bianca except the most obvious thing is NXT has a better way of booking their women even if their title reigns go long. She looked the most vulnerable against Raquel and rightfully so they built her up for a year and she had banger matches with Rhea.
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Post by Susan "Poison" Candy on Sept 23, 2022 9:35:10 GMT -5
Don't get me started on this. Her and Jade are my biggest channel changers and I wish they were off my tv forever
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Post by kingoftheindies on Sept 23, 2022 11:41:27 GMT -5
Seems to be a trend with the top 2 promotions in North America.
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Mecca
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Post by Mecca on Sept 23, 2022 11:54:48 GMT -5
Feel like that's an issue in a lot of women's wrestling in the televised companies. I don't watch enough WWE to recall examples where they've tried that, but AEW had a good one in Shida vs. Serena Deeb, and Rosa vs. Britt in their big Lights Out match was before either was champ, but it's hard to think of even just a few others. Many of the rest in all the companies either revolve around the titles at stake or don't really go to that next level where you could imagine the women involved just wanting to tear one another apart, getting to a point where the belts don't feel like they're needed. I think part of it is promotions don't want to be labelled portraying women as "catty" or the like, which is ridiculous considering the whole history of storytelling and TV particularly. Drama works for a reason and there's nothing wrong with using it, but I feel they're afraid to because they don't want people to think they aren't taking the women seriously now. The last ones I can recall were Ruby/Nattie when she was insulting the memory of Anvil (not the classiest thing sure, but it worked) and Naomi/Mandy when she was trying to seduce Jimmy Uso. The latter I enjoyed a lot and wasn't too risque. You need to give talents things to fight for besides title shots. Edit: On the main rosters anyway. NXT/2.0 has always been good about it. That is 100% over correction when the good place is in the middle. The WWE is so concerned with anyone thinking they aren't taking womens wrestling seriously they won't into delve into real storylines women face consistently.
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Post by mistery on Sept 23, 2022 22:11:01 GMT -5
Bianca Belair vs Iyo Sky was announced for RAW on Monday. Ideally this should end in a non-finish to protect both women.
What is going to end up happening though is Bianca will beat Iyo clean, and firmly establishing Iyo as inferior to her, doing serious harm to yet another potential future big star for the women.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Sept 24, 2022 11:00:54 GMT -5
Bianca was on ESPN College game day
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Post by mistery on Sept 26, 2022 19:38:07 GMT -5
Bumping this, because while it was predictable that Iyo would lose clean, almost all of her offense was countered and Bianca did her no favors in actually selling whatever Iyo did get in.
Awful.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 26, 2022 19:48:56 GMT -5
Said it already but Bianca is the worst kind of babyface one with no flaw.
IYO atleast looked alot closer to her normal self she is getting back to who she is..moving alot better etc so if there is a positive coming out of this for me it is that.
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