Nosnorb
El Dandy
Nachos and Fraggle Rock are TIMELESS.
Posts: 7,685
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Post by Nosnorb on Nov 4, 2022 7:10:37 GMT -5
This is inspired by the thread on the worst year of The Undertaker in terms of character and workrate, and looking back, the two years most voted for were 1999 and 2001, though you could make the case that Taker was just as bad in 2000 as he was in 2001. But as bad as Taker was in 2000 and 2001, the product WWE was putting on was among the best it's ever been, even with The Undertaker in the main event. So what other times have there been when the product was at a high, but a highly featured wrestler was at his worst? |
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Mozenrath
FANatic
Foppery and Whim
Speedy Speed Boy
Posts: 121,069
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Post by Mozenrath on Nov 4, 2022 7:17:55 GMT -5
Austin was working hurt for the lion's share of his WWF run. He did turn out really good performances in there, but he also did a lot of coasting, understandably so given his neck and knees. It was definitely a much worse state physically than when he was in WCW, but he was being given quite a bit more to do in terms of character and angle work, so the matches tended to be better even if his actual performance was compromised.
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Burst
El Dandy
*inarticulate squawking*
Posts: 8,584
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Post by Burst on Nov 4, 2022 7:39:24 GMT -5
I feel like we're going to be having this debate in a few years about whether or not Kenny Omega peaked in New Japan and was all downhill through his AEW run.
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67 more
King Koopa
He's just a Sexy Kurt
Posts: 11,503
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Post by 67 more on Nov 4, 2022 7:59:22 GMT -5
How am I first to say Sean Waltman?
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Post by sungod2020 on Nov 4, 2022 8:34:59 GMT -5
Andre The Giant should win this thread. He was fine in the beginning of the WWF National Expansion boom, but when he came back at Wrestlemania III, he was noticeably in pain and was very slow and lumbering. I know the latter was incorporated well into his gimmick, but still, things weren't looking up for the Eight Wonder of the World and was the beginning of the end for him.
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Post by DoubleDare on Nov 4, 2022 8:41:52 GMT -5
Goldust easily during the Attitude era.
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Post by Can you afford to pay me, Gah on Nov 4, 2022 8:44:30 GMT -5
I second Andre. Hogan peaking and WWF was peaking under Hogan. He feuded with Andre who was a shell of his former self. At times hard to watch because he was always in pain.
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Post by James Fabiano on Nov 4, 2022 10:00:09 GMT -5
JYD wasn't Mid-South JYD for much of the Hulkamania era.
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Post by Cyno on Nov 4, 2022 11:46:32 GMT -5
I feel like we're going to be having this debate in a few years about whether or not Kenny Omega peaked in New Japan and was all downhill through his AEW run. His 2019 wasn't good (mostly by his own choice), but he had a great 2020 and an excellent 2021 that saw him hold world championships in multiple companies, put on several great matches, and end up #1 on the PWI 500. 2022 is a punt between his injury and the fallout from Muffingate. |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2022 11:55:18 GMT -5
I feel like we're going to be having this debate in a few years about whether or not Kenny Omega peaked in New Japan and was all downhill through his AEW run. I was going to suggest this as even his world title reign was extremely lackluster...It seems though AEW has killed the mystique of the best bout machine for me but it's hard to truly blame it on anything other than time. I would say that Duggan was pretty well washed by the time he recovered from the arrest too |
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Nov 4, 2022 12:10:03 GMT -5
I feel like we're going to be having this debate in a few years about whether or not Kenny Omega peaked in New Japan and was all downhill through his AEW run. His 2019 wasn't good (mostly by his own choice), but he had a great 2020 and an excellent 2021 that saw him hold world championships in multiple companies, put on several great matches, and end up #1 on the PWI 500. 2022 is a punt between his injury and the fallout from Muffingate. I think his work in 2016/2017/2018 has a mystique around it a bit because that was the period I think introduced him to much of his new fandom (and NJPW along with him). |
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Futureraven: Beelzebruv
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
The Ultimate Arbiter of Right And Wrong
Spent half my life here, God help me
Posts: 15,050
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Post by Futureraven: Beelzebruv on Nov 4, 2022 12:14:37 GMT -5
A lot can be just down to booking, but Vader was one of THE monsters of the early-mid 90s, then as the Attitude era got hot, he turned into just another guy, even in midcard matches, he wasn't wrecking people, Kane demolished him. It seemed to get in his head, the performances weren't what they were.
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Burst
El Dandy
*inarticulate squawking*
Posts: 8,584
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Post by Burst on Nov 4, 2022 12:30:20 GMT -5
I think his work in 2016/2017/2018 has a mystique around it a bit because that was the period I think introduced him to much of his new fandom (and NJPW along with him). Yeah, it's honestly hard to tell how much of his 2016-2018 work is put on a pedestal from a combination of factors, namely the whole "Puro is inherently better" mindset, the tape trading mindset (in the sense of word of mouth versus accessibility of matches), and how much is from New Japan as a whole being insanely hot through that era. To build off of what you said, I feel like a lot is also the sheer whiplash of him going from "this is the guy that did Zangief's Final Atomic Buster on a blow-up doll" to "this is THE CLEANER", which obviously certain parts of the fandom have utterly refused to get over, but that's neither here nor there. |
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tafkaga
Samurai Cop
the Dogfather
Posts: 2,108
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Post by tafkaga on Nov 4, 2022 12:50:31 GMT -5
Scott Hall in 1998 WCW and 2002 WWF.
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Post by sungod2020 on Nov 4, 2022 13:10:15 GMT -5
A lot can be just down to booking, but Vader was one of THE monsters of the early-mid 90s, then as the Attitude era got hot, he turned into just another guy, even in midcard matches, he wasn't wrecking people, Kane demolished him. It seemed to get in his head, the performances weren't what they were. I'll argue that even before the Attitude Era got underway, he was already done. His initial booking was just fine though. He debuted at the 1996 Royal Rumble and had a dominant performance eliminating Jake Roberts, Doug Gilbert, one of the Squat team guys, and Savio Vega before Shawn Michaels eliminated him when him and Yokozuna were fighting on the ropes, with the element of surprise, it protected him on some level. Even after that, he went back into the ring and assaulted those that were in until then WWF president Gorilla Monsoon came in and demanded he leave the ring. The next night, he assaulted the beloved president. He also injured Yokozuna, and because he was so fat, he needed to be carried out not on a stretcher, but a forklift, so he even got to BURY the once dominant WWF champion. He also was able to get a pinfall on then WWF champion Shawn Michaels in a six man tag at In Your House:International Incident, so things did look promising for the Rocky Mountain Monster. Then he lost his WWF championship match at Summerslam and THAT'S when things went downhill for him. Even then, it was still salvageable as he did get to pin The Undertaker clean as a sheet and made it to the final four at the 1997 Royal Rumble and even was featured in the main event of the next PPV. At that point, he gradually slid down the card. After failing to win the tag team titles with Mankind, he turned face, feuded with Goldust(where he did win at the 1998 Royal Rumble, before getting tossed out by The Bizarre One in the main match), and THAT'S when he got really buried. He started a feud with Kane where he got owned at every turned, lost his mask at Over The Edge, cried about how worthless he was and called himself a big fat piece of shit, and then was jobbed out the door to newcomers such as Edge, Mark Henry, and Bradshaw. Calling him just another guy would be putting it generously, he was a flat out JTTS in his final year with the company, but the beginning of the end started a year and a half earlier. |
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Post by David-Arquette was in WCW 2000 on Nov 4, 2022 14:30:32 GMT -5
Goldust easily during the Attitude era. Strictly the Goldust character, or Dustin Runnels in general? 'cause bah gawd, Runnels would get a lot worse. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2022 14:41:35 GMT -5
I also came in here to say Andre. I knew him as a big, lumbering guy who had to hold on to the ropes to get around, so I was pretty shocked to see him taking bigger bumps and doing some flips in his younger days.
In a similar vein, I'd have to say Sgt. Slaughter. He was never putting on six-star clinics, but his Wrestlemania 7 main event was definitely a tier below his boot camp matches with the likes of Pat Patterson.
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Post by karl100589 on Nov 4, 2022 15:55:08 GMT -5
Pretty much the entire Heroes of Wrestling roster?
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Mozenrath
FANatic
Foppery and Whim
Speedy Speed Boy
Posts: 121,069
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Post by Mozenrath on Nov 4, 2022 16:02:32 GMT -5
I feel like we're going to be having this debate in a few years about whether or not Kenny Omega peaked in New Japan and was all downhill through his AEW run. His 2019 wasn't good (mostly by his own choice), but he had a great 2020 and an excellent 2021 that saw him hold world championships in multiple companies, put on several great matches, and end up #1 on the PWI 500. 2022 is a punt between his injury and the fallout from Muffingate. And even 2019 had stand outs like the PAC matches. |
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Post by BorneAgain on Nov 4, 2022 16:05:40 GMT -5
I saw a lot of people rave about WWE in 2013, but it was probably Miz's worst year. Had an unflattering haircut/stubble for much of it, was a very underwhelming babyface, and his whole character hadn't been reinvigorated by the faux Hollywood star angle.
After the Raw where Orton beat the hell out of him in front of his family while the crowd cheered, its something of a minor miracle he managed to get his momentum back and carve out an upper-mid card position on the roster.
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