|
Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on Jan 17, 2023 4:01:30 GMT -5
May as well ask this now given his entire status in the role is under constant question and barrage.
So we're nigh on six months since Vince initially stepped down and Triple H took over the big chair, including creative. I said in another thread that he probably did a service for the product by keeping things largely stable while things were chaos behind the scenes. Hell, that's what it probably is right now, but by some miracle it doesn't come through on the TV like that.
All that said... Could he have stood to take a few more risks and gambles and really try to put his stamp on things? Sure, what he's done largely didn't run off the audience that there is, but it hasn't really captured the imagination. Most of what he's done have been returns of talents that shouldn't have been cut in the first place and seemingly letting them settle in the part of the card they'd probably have ended up in under Vince anyway, a few course-correcting alignment shifts and gimmick tweaks in the midcard, doing a main roster WarGames and Fight Pit, and fixing so many of those little things that we fixated upon into becoming big deal-breaking things. But otherwise, movement around the card has been largely static. Of the nine championships on the main roster, six of them are still on the same people they were when he took over from Vince. And with two of the remaining three, two of them have been cycled around talents that weren't exactly starved for a push under Vince. And the storylines have become very barebones outside of the ongoing Bloodline angle, the Lumis/Miz thing and anything Bray Wyatt is involved in. Which, on one hand, you're not getting absolute bottom-of-the-barrel dross for now, but on the other, you're not really getting much of anything.
So what gives here? Is it just me getting impatient for the RR-WM timeframe, aka one of the only times of the year when things actually happen? Was he playing it gentle because he didn't know how much longer he'd be in the chair for? Or has he not just got that dog in him without the ability to cycle out talents like in NXT?
|
|
|
Post by eJm on Jan 17, 2023 4:46:39 GMT -5
To me, I think people expecting HHH to put his stamp on super quickly is something I always said was foolish. You're putting a guy who was barely used to weekly TV with NXT where he didn't really do much except quick title changes and matches booked to go up against Dynamite onto your main show where holes needed to be filled roster wise with people on NXT not quite ready to fill them and the people you bring in needing time to be established and put in situations for the audience to care and expecting that in a few weeks was a silly proposition. Especially when it wasn't going to make a massive difference in ratings regardless.
From someone who doesn't watch, I get a small sense that he was still figuring out who the main people on the show were outside the Bloodline. Miz/Lumis mostly felt like filling time, Damage CTRL were formed and not much was done with the buzz from that and considering how the competition is able to capitalize on Jade, Bianca sort of feels like a champion of a division built around Uncle Howdy for some reason. Smackdown seems like they're building a half decent IC division but a lot of stuff needed time to cement.
I think it's impatience. I've seen enough of it where, even as someone who can bash HHH at times, more time was needed to integrate vision because outside of Bill Watts, I don't think you could bring anyone in that would warp a program super quickly.
|
|
msc
Dennis Stamp
Posts: 4,440
|
Post by msc on Jan 17, 2023 4:49:59 GMT -5
Rome wasn't built in a day, especially if the previous Emperor refuses to die.
I think HHH has been focused on building folk back up again - so Judgment Day got heated up, Gargano was brought back, Damage Control became a thing (which seems designed to put over Iyo). There's probably also an element of being aware Vince wasn't dead and had controlling stocks, yes.
There's also probably the fact that between his near death heart issues, his father in laws public downfall (and lack of downfall), one of his closest friends dying, and another being unwell (Nash is suffering the black dog after his terrible year), that all of the personal issues hurting Triple H at the moment mean you're not getting full mojo Hunter booking. Which is fully understandable too.
Which of course, Vince knows about, and still wanted to add more stress.
But in general, I think its that the mess WWE booking was in takes a long time to fix, more than 6 months, and HHH was focused more on setting the foundations for later rather than setting off the fireworks.
|
|
schma
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 6,713
|
Post by schma on Jan 17, 2023 5:15:56 GMT -5
I think he was smart not to rock the boat too much. I suspect several of the higher ups knew that they needed to prove that Vince was not the key to success he sold himself as. Now, if Triple H is in this position post sale, that will probably be when you really start to see things change.
|
|
Bo Rida
Fry's dog Seymour
Pulled one over on everyone. Got away with it, this time.
Posts: 23,515
|
Post by Bo Rida on Jan 17, 2023 7:01:38 GMT -5
I think it makes sense to keep things stable until Wrestlemania. After that he can start to experiment a bit more.
|
|
|
Post by "Evil Brood" Jackson Vanik on Jan 17, 2023 7:40:52 GMT -5
I think it both true that it makes sense that he largely didn't change much but it's also the case that RAW saw an immediate surge in viewers when he took over and that offered him a chance to completely retool the look and philosophy of the show and he missed that window.
|
|
|
Post by polarbearpete on Jan 17, 2023 10:08:50 GMT -5
I think it both true that it makes sense that he largely didn't change much but it's also the case that RAW saw an immediate surge in viewers when he took over and that offered him a chance to completely retool the look and philosophy of the show and he missed that window. I think the problem with changing the look and philosophy radically, is that he knew that Vince was still lurking and can boot him out or take over at any time. So he couldn’t go so astray from the usual in that sense. It’s a balancing act. But I mean he did change a ton as well, especially subtly with the commentary, the order of shows, the importance of midcard titles, first names, the language being more natural, the ton of re-signings and callups.
|
|
|
Post by kingoftheindies on Jan 17, 2023 10:12:36 GMT -5
I've said before but I think there were a couple miscalculations more so than being too conservative.
I think there were miscalculations in how over a bunch of acts that were brought back are/were and I think they also miscalculated how badly a lot of the roster was damaged by bad booking over the years. Those two combined means you have to focus on rebuilding people which takes times. There are very few wrestlers on the roster that can maintain an overness despite bad booking, and I think the fact that there's so many things that feel in a holding pattern speak to the idea that they need to build so many people up.
The tinfoil hat wearer in me also thinks that Triple H started booking the Damage Control angle with Naomi and Sasha returning in mind but never had an agreement but that's more a conspiracy theory.
Could be wrong but I have seen too many instances of people getting built up initially but then the pushes... maybe don't come to a screeching hault... but feels more like holding patterns to help gain momentum
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2023 10:21:25 GMT -5
HHH to me is clearly holding alot back in part because he knew Vince was still lurking as someone said and knew all along that if he just fired out the entire clip he had it would just be all undone anyways.
So in a sense he has been conservative while making enough changes that if Vince were to try and undo it he can easily just fix it.
Of course all of that is simply in theory.
The other part is HHH has to wade through and undo alot of the ole regimes creative crap...like I am sure he wants to end this BloodLine story but and this is probably one the negatives to his creative view is that he isn't gonna end something unless the solution is one he feels is the best one and so it can create this long drag on a story that could have ended weeks if not months prior.
|
|
XIII
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Posts: 18,422
|
Post by XIII on Jan 17, 2023 10:49:35 GMT -5
I think that he was trying to rebuild slowly/come up with cohesive ways to finish out the big stories while also brining his people back and starting them on the path. Dude only had what 6 months or so to build anything and I think that he was doing well enough...unfortunately the specter of Vince popped up like Jason Voorhees.
|
|
|
Post by HMARK Center on Jan 17, 2023 11:38:48 GMT -5
Interesting question, and it makes me wonder what Triple H's real overall booking philosophy is and how it's impacted by being presented in different formats (pre-taped one hour shows, live two-hour shows, PPV payoffs, etc.)
I don't pretend to be really familiar with how he booked early NXT, which is when he gained most of his greatest accolades as a booker (though some claim Dusty deserves a lot of the credit for that era; I'm sure it's split to some degree), but it also means thinking about how much of the perception of him is him simply not being Vince and thus not falling into the innumerable Vince-isms that made watching WWE so painful for so long, and how much was due to legitimately great booking on his part. Not saying it's all the former by any stretch, but more that I wonder if some people kind of projected expectations onto him that might not have really been there to begin with, which could have led some to disappointment when more didn't change right away.
That said, him removing the Vince-isms (overproducing the announcers, the weird buzzwords, acting like the audience and wrestlers have the memory capacity of goldfish, etc.) is a big check in his favor, even if he brought nothing else to the table.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2023 12:28:59 GMT -5
I tuned in for a bit when Haitch truly took over for Vince, and for once it wasn't the putrid and haphazard booking that made me quit, it was the crazy over-production.
Hunter isn't perfect, but neither is Tony Khan, Gedo, Paul Heyman, Dusty Rhodes, or even Eddie Graham. I do at least feel like Hunter cares about the midcard and building up the non-world titles.
It's also better to slowly introduce changes to the audience that's there and used to Vince-isms than to wholesale redo everything overnight. A vast majority of us on this board probably don't like Vince's booking (or even Vince himself, and that was BEFORE the allegations), but the WWE definitely has a floor in terms of people who are seemingly there no matter what, and the last thing you want to do is go around upsetting that particular base.
As Dusty apparently once said to Hunter: "Booking ain't easy, kid"
|
|
|
Post by kingoftheindies on Jan 17, 2023 12:44:01 GMT -5
Interesting question, and it makes me wonder what Triple H's real overall booking philosophy is and how it's impacted by being presented in different formats (pre-taped one hour shows, live two-hour shows, PPV payoffs, etc.) I don't pretend to be really familiar with how he booked early NXT, which is when he gained most of his greatest accolades as a booker (though some claim Dusty deserves a lot of the credit for that era; I'm sure it's split to some degree), but it also means thinking about how much of the perception of him is him simply not being Vince and thus not falling into the innumerable Vince-isms that made watching WWE so painful for so long, and how much was due to legitimately great booking on his part. Not saying it's all the former by any stretch, but more that I wonder if some people kind of projected expectations onto him that might not have really been there to begin with, which could have led some to disappointment when more didn't change right away. That said, him removing the Vince-isms (overproducing the announcers, the weird buzzwords, acting like the audience and wrestlers have the memory capacity of goldfish, etc.) is a big check in his favor, even if he brought nothing else to the table. I wouldn't say just Dusty. Triple H's NXT was at it's best when he had Ryan Ward, Dusty, and William Regal with him. Ward has been moved around a lot, Dusty passed, and Regal stepped away from an office role due to health issues at the time. The issues for Trips has always been when he puts Road Dogg in a position of power
|
|
|
Post by Jindrak Mark on Jan 17, 2023 12:49:05 GMT -5
PPVs are way better since he took over and Smackdown is consistently good. I still can't watch Raw live though. Even if I enjoy a bunch of individual segments I just can't sit and watch a 3 hour show every week when I know I can easily wait till the next day and pick and choose what parts to watch.
|
|
|
Post by xCompackx on Jan 17, 2023 12:59:10 GMT -5
I like a lot of what HHH is doing, I'm just bored with Bloodline, which seems like will change soon once we get going with Sami and KO, and think RAW is boring as sin.
Post-WrestleMania should be fun times as long as Vince doesn't weasel his way into Creative.
|
|
|
Post by Finish Uncle Muffin’s Story on Jan 17, 2023 13:03:06 GMT -5
I think he's made some really positive changes, but I think some stuff is still not great. I think now that we've seen how it's worked out, it's possible the biggest mistake he's made is just bringing back the NXT guys with no real heat or buzz.
I think there was a world where guys like Gargano, Lumis, Reed, LeRae and others show up in NXT for an epilogue of sorts to their stories and then you call them up. At least then you get a little buzz like "oh man, they're back!" Just felt like a lot of these guys were cold coming in. We'll see where things stand at this time next year, though.
|
|
|
Post by Cyno on Jan 17, 2023 13:08:48 GMT -5
I think being conservative and not rocking the boat too much was the way to go. He needed to bring order and stability to the chaos of Vince McMahon's booking the last few years. And you can't just change the presentation and do a complete 180 on the last regime's philosophy without upsetting the core fans. Looked how that worked out for WCW in 1999.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2023 13:12:24 GMT -5
I think he's made some really positive changes, but I think some stuff is still not great. I think now that we've seen how it's worked out, it's possible the biggest mistake he's made is just bringing back the NXT guys with no real heat or buzz. I think there was a world where guys like Gargano, Lumis, Reed, LeRae and others show up in NXT for an epilogue of sorts to their stories and then you call them up. At least then you get a little buzz like "oh man, they're back!" Just felt like a lot of these guys were cold coming in. We'll see where things stand at this time next year, though. It is where the biggest difference between he and Vince in that Vice would have already given up and fired them all or most. HHH isn't just gonna give up on them just because they do not come out red hot out the gate and he adjusts to make better use of them. But he has got to get away from gawd damn super long ass reigns (talking 400+ day ridiculousness) because it just haults everything and kills so much momentum , which is why once he finally gets the titles off the bloodline IMO and that is IF he hasn't been run out the company is when we will really see what his vision for the company is.
|
|
Captain Stud Muffin (BLM)
FANatic
You can either sink, swim, or be the captain....Long live the cheif
Posts: 113,335
Member is Online
|
Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Jan 17, 2023 15:58:59 GMT -5
To put it short and simple, I don’t think you will see HHH influence really take hold until Summerslam
|
|
Gus Richlen Was Wrong
Patti Mayonnaise
Metal Maestro: Co-winner of the FAN Idol Throwdown!
Fun while it lasted
Posts: 38,466
|
Post by Gus Richlen Was Wrong on Jan 17, 2023 17:46:19 GMT -5
To put it short and simple, I don’t think you will see HHH influence really take hold until Summerslam He'll never get the chance.
|
|