The Blue Nova
Don Corleone
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Posts: 1,392
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Post by The Blue Nova on Jan 23, 2023 15:18:40 GMT -5
I feel the boom kinda started in 1996 with the nwo and the monday night wars heating up and the boom going full force in 1998 with WWF after wrestlemania 14 making wrestling cool again for the first time in a long time. as wrestling had kinda suffered since the steroid trial? Do anyone feel the the boom ended after WWF bought WCW and ECW and after Wrestlemania X7. Wrestlemania X 7 seemed to me almost like the end of the boom period.
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Post by Dr. Bolty, Disaster Enby on Jan 23, 2023 15:23:36 GMT -5
So obvious out of the way: the viewership numbers of the Monday Night Wars have never been equaled, and probably never will be. The TV landscape has changed in such a way that today's much smaller wrestling ratings are still some of the best in all of cable.
More interesting thought, though: WWE successfully made wrestling a more durable part of the mainstream television landscape in the time since.
The thing is, if you liked wrestling at the height of the Monday Night Wars, it still came with a lot of "You know it's fake, right?" and other intimations that liking wrestling was a pretty immature pastime. Nowadays...it's not like that's gone, but it also feels like wrestling is just something people watch, and some people grew up with it and grew out of it, and some people still love it.
I dunno. It's not as popular in raw numbers, but it feels like WWE sticking around in the wake of that popularity spike has just made liking wrestling normal in a way it wasn't when it was more popular.
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Post by Lizuka #BLM on Jan 24, 2023 7:25:10 GMT -5
I think you could argue it was more 2002 where things really collapsed but around that ballpark in general certainly.
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Post by eJm on Jan 24, 2023 7:39:48 GMT -5
To add to other points, you could tell around, say, 2004-5 when they realized that those fans weren't going to come back when they basically started going the "HEY GUYS, THE ATTITUDE ERA IS BACK, SEE?!" and getting more risque with storylines and characters before they remembered kids watched and went with Cena/PG instead.
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Post by YAKMAN is ICHIBAN on Jan 24, 2023 8:07:03 GMT -5
In terms of numbers of tickets sold I've seen some suggestions that the territory days were the true boom. I don't know if that's true but it makes sense when you think of how you had multiple companies capable of drawing big crowds.
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Post by Jindrak Mark on Jan 24, 2023 8:14:37 GMT -5
It was definitely the end of it in my friend group at the time. And it’s almost hilarious how sudden it was. It wasn’t some gradual thing. It went from like the absolute peak of hype leading to Wrestlemania with everyone picking a side between Rock and Austin to just weeks later no one was talking about wrestling. Like not even the invasion which you’d think would be a big deal brought some of us back. A lot of people just straight up stopped watching after Austin shook hands with Vince.
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Post by Aceorton on Jan 24, 2023 13:31:53 GMT -5
If I'm being fair, I'd say it was after WMX8 in 2002 that it really ended. The brand split with watered-down rosters, the company name change, the bungled nWo return and Hogan nostalgia tour, Austin's walkout and the Rock's last hurrah as a full-timer really changed the product into something less edgy and fun.
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Post by Jaws the Shark on Jan 24, 2023 13:44:34 GMT -5
In terms of numbers of tickets sold I've seen some suggestions that the territory days were the true boom. I don't know if that's true but it makes sense when you think of how you had multiple companies capable of drawing big crowds. It's hard to compare the eras because the focuses were completely different, the model then was all all about house shows rather than television numbers, and like you said there was more promoters running more shows, so the sheer number of tickets sold weirdly isn't necessarily an accurate measure of the overall popularity of wrestling. If anything the industry was in a slump during the last decade or so of the territorial era, a lot of territories - Amarillo, Detroit, LA, San Francisco, various others - were on the decline in the late seventies and early eighties in terms of ticket sales and were starting to merge with other offices or close altogether.
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Post by David-Arquette was in WCW 2000 on Jan 24, 2023 14:37:10 GMT -5
Oh for sure. There was less talk about wrestling in school towards the end of 2001. That's kinda how I metered it.
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Post by James Fabiano on Jan 24, 2023 14:44:12 GMT -5
To add to other points, you could tell around, say, 2004-5 when they realized that those fans weren't going to come back when they basically started going the "HEY GUYS, THE ATTITUDE ERA IS BACK, SEE?!" and getting more risque with storylines and characters before they remembered kids watched the Benoit incident and went with Cena/PG instead. Fixed. And yes, pretty much. 2002 had Katie Vick and the Dawn Marie stuff, among others. So they kept clinging onto the Attitude Era all along, until Benoit.
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thecrusherwi
El Dandy
the Financially Responsible Man
Brawl For All
Posts: 7,656
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Post by thecrusherwi on Jan 24, 2023 14:49:52 GMT -5
I think from a business standpoint it was more in 2002.
The cultural boom came earlier. By 2001, it kind of felt like it was over. The Wrestling Fad as a thing that non-wrestling fans latched on to for a while because it was the "it" thing seemed like it died in late 1999 or early 2000.
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Post by nickcave on Jan 24, 2023 14:51:16 GMT -5
I think it ended after the Invasion PPV was a huge letdown
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Post by eJm on Jan 24, 2023 15:05:47 GMT -5
I think it ended after the Invasion PPV was a huge letdown You say that but Survivor Series that year did big business compared to almost any other edition of the show.
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Renslayer
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
every time i come around your city...
Posts: 16,578
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Post by Renslayer on Jan 24, 2023 15:26:35 GMT -5
So obvious out of the way: the viewership numbers of the Monday Night Wars have never been equaled, and probably never will be. The TV landscape has changed in such a way that today's much smaller wrestling ratings are still some of the best in all of cable. More interesting thought, though: WWE successfully made wrestling a more durable part of the mainstream television landscape in the time since. The thing is, if you liked wrestling at the height of the Monday Night Wars, it still came with a lot of "You know it's fake, right?" and other intimations that liking wrestling was a pretty immature pastime. Nowadays...it's not like that's gone, but it also feels like wrestling is just something people watch, and some people grew up with it and grew out of it, and some people still love it. I dunno. It's not as popular in raw numbers, but it feels like WWE sticking around in the wake of that popularity spike has just made liking wrestling normal in a way it wasn't when it was more popular. This is a fascinating point. If you asked me in 2003 if WWE would be on espn (aside from scandalous moments), I'd think you were out of your mind. Having the visibility of regularly popping up on ESPN, FOX Sports, NBC, etc opens up so many lanes for so many different wrestlers.
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Post by Lizuka #BLM on Jan 24, 2023 15:32:18 GMT -5
I think it ended after the Invasion PPV was a huge letdown You say that but Survivor Series that year did big business compared to almost any other edition of the show. Granted compared to the previous year Unforgiven and No Mercy both absolutely cratered.
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Post by Fade is a CodyCryBaby on Jan 24, 2023 18:07:51 GMT -5
I want to hang out with the one person who voted “no” cuz that’s the kind of optimism i need in my life.
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Post by "Evil Brood" Jackson Vanik on Jan 24, 2023 23:05:00 GMT -5
I think people at the time underestimated just how many folks only watched wrestling for WCW (and ECW to a lesser extent). There were other reasons for why the boom ended but those two promotions dying definitely played a part. Even if the WWF kept firing on all cylinders creatively, wrestling lost a chunk of the audience it would struggle to ever get back.
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tirtefaa
Unicron
If you wanna know the truth, you gotta dig up Johnny Booth.
Posts: 2,833
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Post by tirtefaa on Jan 25, 2023 5:04:57 GMT -5
To add to other points, you could tell around, say, 2004-5 when they realized that those fans weren't going to come back when they basically started going the "HEY GUYS, THE ATTITUDE ERA IS BACK, SEE?!" and getting more risque with storylines and characters before they remembered kids watched and went with Cena/PG instead. Once they realized they weren't going to win those fans back, they decided to stick to their plan no matter what moving forward too.
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Post by eJm on Jan 25, 2023 5:28:00 GMT -5
You say that but Survivor Series that year did big business compared to almost any other edition of the show. Granted compared to the previous year Unforgiven and No Mercy both absolutely cratered. Backlash 2001 also did terribly compared to 2000 and they were so desperate for people to buy that show, they put all the belts into the main event. I will give you it was an up and down year PPV wise.
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pinja
Unicron
Posts: 2,998
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Post by pinja on Jan 25, 2023 7:52:47 GMT -5
Yeah. It's shaky times when either doom is on the horizon or you're absurdly successful. Establishing a stable business outside of shaky times is the really commendable effort.
Like, let's see video games. Since the early PlayStation days FromSoftware was that little Japanese developer making niche titles. They never have a huge hit, but they survive. Some 20 years later they are the be all end all of gaming with the exact same formula, just refined and internationalized. Awesome success, but it'll be much more interesting to see how they survive when their formula gets old or broken.
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