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Post by bluebeach25 on Jan 30, 2023 15:04:41 GMT -5
Since it's been already 30 Years since Summerslam 1993. What was/is your take on it? Original plan was supposed to be Bret beating Hogan (even making him tap out) but Hogan didn't want it, so the Match never happened. There have always been rumors about a Tug of War picture which was even confirmed i believe, but the photo has been never seen.
I never thought Bret should have beat Hogan in 93 let alone making him tap out. It would have hurt Hogan's later Run and yes 93 Hogan wasn't like 86 Hogan but still size still was a huge important thing back in those days.
Yoko being the one to beat him instead of Bret was atleast pretty legit and realistic, as far as match quality who knows how that Bret/Hogan Match would have been. I don't know if Hogan would had any chemistry with Bret or if he would have sold anything actually.
We will never know but overall i always thought Hogan was right on that one.
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thecrusherwi
El Dandy
the Financially Responsible Man
Brawl For All
Posts: 7,660
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Post by thecrusherwi on Jan 30, 2023 15:10:16 GMT -5
I've always figured this was a case of Vince told Bret an idea that Bret thought was a plan while Vince never told/asked Hogan about the idea. But if Hogan was told this was an idea and decided he didn't want to do it, I can't blame him. He'd already put Warrior over clean a few years before and really hadn't gone over strong over anyone but Slaughter after that. If he still had plans to continue his career in WCW or elsewhere, there's no point in taking a clean loss to another babyface if he doesn't have to.
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tafkaga
Samurai Cop
the Dogfather
Posts: 2,151
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Post by tafkaga on Jan 30, 2023 15:23:38 GMT -5
I don't believe the plan was ever for Hogan to put Bret over clean, nor do I think it would have made sense for him to do that.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Jan 30, 2023 15:34:42 GMT -5
Vince was probably blowing smoke, but if Hogan did say no it's terrible on his part. You're ostensibly leaving, put over the next guy. It ain't real
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tirtefaa
Unicron
If you wanna know the truth, you gotta dig up Johnny Booth.
Posts: 2,918
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Post by tirtefaa on Jan 30, 2023 15:42:22 GMT -5
Would have been stupid either way.
Bret didn't need Hogan to solidify him, and Hogan was so far beyond stale that it wouldn't have drawn any money.
And the result would be this; the audience would still cheer Hogan over Bret. If Hogan won, it would have been more of the same and showed that Bret can't hang with him. If Bret wins, the fans probably wouldn't be happy with that result and likely would have booed.
This wasn't a situation of Hogan and Warrior, who were cut essentially from the same kind of cloth. It was two babyfaces with different dynamics that made them likeable for different reasons. When you put them in the ring together, I think the audience is going to default to Hogan.
At the end of the day, a great wrestler forges his/her own path. Needing to have a certain person "put you over" in order to solidify your status shows me that their status wasn't as strong as they thought it was.
While it would be disappointing if any of these didn't happen, the fact of the matter is, is that even with them removed, it doesn't change the wrestler.
Hulk Hogan without Andre would have still been Hulk Hogan.
Steve Austin without Bret Hart would have still been Steve Austin.
John Cena without Triple H would have still been John Cena.
Daniel Bryan without John Cena would have still been Daniel Bryan.
Shawn Michaels without that stupid ladder would have still been Shawn Michaels.
Now...if we fast forward to WCW? Yeah, not doing Bret vs. Hogan was just a wasted opportunity. Not saying it does huge numbers, but the atmosphere was different and the underlining story was set.
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chazraps
Wade Wilson
Better have my money when I come-a collect!
Posts: 28,017
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Post by chazraps on Jan 30, 2023 17:42:11 GMT -5
It's indefensibly bad. Hogan should have put Bret over clean.
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Post by The Dark Order Inferno on Jan 30, 2023 18:41:28 GMT -5
Since it's been already 30 Years since Summerslam 1993. What was/is your take on it? Original plan was supposed to be Bret beating Hogan (even making him tap out) but Hogan didn't want it, so the Match never happened. There have always been rumors about a Tug of War picture which was even confirmed i believe, but the photo has been never seen. I never thought Bret should have beat Hogan in 93 let alone making him tap out. It would have hurt Hogan's later Run and yes 93 Hogan wasn't like 86 Hogan but still size still was a huge important thing back in those days. Yoko being the one to beat him instead of Bret was atleast pretty legit and realistic, as far as match quality who knows how that Bret/Hogan Match would have been. I don't know if Hogan would had any chemistry with Bret or if he would have sold anything actually. We will never know but overall i always thought Hogan was right on that one. Legit and realistic? Hogan won the title without any build, proceeded not to build up the rematch either and when it came around, he was hit by a fireball from a camera used by a guy who, while a heel, was in no way associated with Fuji, Yoko or Hogan, and for the second time Yoko won the belt in a screwy manner which did very little for his legitimacy as a monster heel. Hogan once again put someone over without putting them over, something he would do over and over and over again in the years that followed. I doubt Bret was ever going to be put over clean by Hogan, it was just a line he was fed to keep him as happy as possible after the rugpull he'd just suffered. Hogan wanted the belt, Hogan got the belt and nobody else benefited, nobody else was ever going to benefit, the whole thing wasn't about building for the future or legitimising anyone, Hogan just wanted his ego massaging.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2023 19:35:26 GMT -5
Hogan should've done the job, brother.
The WM9 ending was a complete mess. Bret should've retained and faced Hogan at SummerSlam. They could've done the "Fuji throws salt in Yoko's eyes" and then had Bret roll him up.
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Mozenrath
FANatic
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Speedy Speed Boy
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Post by Mozenrath on Jan 30, 2023 20:34:08 GMT -5
I highly doubt Hogan was going to submit to the Sharpshooter in a million years as a face, but, I could maybe have seen him losing to a crucifix pin or something like that, or maybe taking a piledriver or 2nd-rope pointed elbow.
In the grand scheme of things, I think Yokozuna pinning Hogan wasn't the worst thing in the world, either, but I get why Bret held a grudge.
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4real
Wade Wilson
Posts: 27,930
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Post by 4real on Jan 31, 2023 4:30:00 GMT -5
I see it as the 1993 version of Punk losing to Lesnar & Taker in 2013
“I owe you one pal”.
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Post by dangerousdanpotato on Jan 31, 2023 7:00:45 GMT -5
I find it hard to imagine the visual of Bret and Hulk going at it in the ring. The 'passing the torch' match to put Bret over should have been vs. Savage, who was more than willing to help get Bret, Shawn etc. over. What a missed opportunity.
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Post by ThankGodForSidJustice on Jan 31, 2023 7:13:15 GMT -5
Honestly from a size standpoint Hogan losing to Bret wouldn't be that ridiculous considering Hogan was clearly off the gas and at his thinnest at that point. Obviously he was still a decent bit taller but weight wise Hogan had maybe only like 15 pounds on Bret at that point. If that.
I still have a tough time seeing Bret beating him though just mainly because of invincible Hogan had been booked over the years. No way in hell was Bret going over with the sharpshooter. Even if that was somehow booked there's no way Hogan would agree to it. It would have to be probably some sort of flash pin and even that I have a tough time seeing. Only time Hogan was pinned clean during his prime run (84-93) was against Warrior at Mania VI and even that was after he got a visual pin first.
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Post by ANuclearError on Jan 31, 2023 7:21:12 GMT -5
Having Savage and Bret do a ripoff of the Funk/Flair angle could have been fun.
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Jan 31, 2023 12:01:35 GMT -5
If Hogan can fall to Warrior after getting big splashed and kicking out at 3.00001, then there’s no good reason why Hulk can’t lose to Bret Hart reversing a small package. Bret wasn’t a giant, but even as a kid even with all of the mountains in WWF at the time I could still plainly tell he was anything but a tiny person. As strong as Hulk’s character was, I could still buy into a Bret victory in some fashion.
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Post by sportatorium on Jan 31, 2023 12:37:34 GMT -5
There was no reason for Hogan to refuse to lose to Bret or work a feud with him behind his own fragile ego. Bret was over, but Hogan putting him over would have elevated him to a higher level.
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Post by jason1980s on Jan 31, 2023 13:52:14 GMT -5
Did Hogan ever speak about this over the last 29 years? I'm sure he would just lie to make him self look good if what Bret says is true. But in the case here we have three people with one (Vince) whose side we will never hear and we know how dishonest he can be. Then Hogan who is known for some insane lies and then Bret who is such a huge fan of himself that he could be easily manipulated if someone put a bug in his ear that a major star would do the job. Did Hogan personally tell Bret "that doesn't work..." or did Vince tell him that? I think the truth probably lies somewhere like Bad News Brown thinking he would be hw champ. Vince probably told Brown he envisioned him being champ and also told Bret his vision was for Bret to beat Hogan/pass the torch match. Given the timing with Hogan leaving, I can see Vince telling Bret this idea without getting Hogan's thoughts on the matter. I don't think Bret's a liar but he does get in his head thoughts that aren't exactly true, maybe hearing things from people and taking them at face value. Best example is him thinking he would beat Warrior at Royal Rumble. Even before Warrior left WWF magazine had a page featuring Bret v. Razor and Warrior was amongst a few others guys I guess slated as Rumble participants.
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Post by bluebeach25 on Jan 31, 2023 14:38:20 GMT -5
Did Hogan ever speak about this over the last 29 years? I'm sure he would just lie to make him self look good if what Bret says is true. But in the case here we have three people with one (Vince) whose side we will never hear and we know how dishonest he can be. Then Hogan who is known for some insane lies and then Bret who is such a huge fan of himself that he could be easily manipulated if someone put a bug in his ear that a major star would do the job. Did Hogan personally tell Bret "that doesn't work..." or did Vince tell him that? I think the truth probably lies somewhere like Bad News Brown thinking he would be hw champ. Vince probably told Brown he envisioned him being champ and also told Bret his vision was for Bret to beat Hogan/pass the torch match. Given the timing with Hogan leaving, I can see Vince telling Bret this idea without getting Hogan's thoughts on the matter. I don't think Bret's a liar but he does get in his head thoughts that aren't exactly true, maybe hearing things from people and taking them at face value. Best example is him thinking he would beat Warrior at Royal Rumble. Even before Warrior left WWF magazine had a page featuring Bret v. Razor and Warrior was amongst a few others guys I guess slated as Rumble participants. i have no clue but Bret even wrote about this in his book i believe. If not the Storie has been told like this from many sources over the Years. Hogan said to Bret after WM 9 he will give him back the moment or something in that matter. Then around May 93 Vince told Bret about the plans for Summerslam 93 and he obviously got hyped up, then a few days/weeks later Vince tells him that Hogan doesn't want it. So he confronted Hogan about it that at Kotr 93 backstage and told him to go f... himself! So there was massive heat from Bret's side. I have no doubt that Hogan just totally was against losing Clean or just losing to a guy like Bret at that time.
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tirtefaa
Unicron
If you wanna know the truth, you gotta dig up Johnny Booth.
Posts: 2,918
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Post by tirtefaa on Jan 31, 2023 15:39:51 GMT -5
Bret was over, but Hogan putting him over would have elevated him to a higher level. How? Business was down. How was Hogan putting over Bret going to help Bret AND the company? And I'll reiterate, is the fact that Bret didn't beat Hogan mean that Bret has an incomplete legacy?
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Post by Jindrak Mark on Jan 31, 2023 18:22:49 GMT -5
Even if Hogan/Bret couldn't happen due to Hogan's ego it's still mind boggling to me that Savage was apparently pitching to put over Bret at Wrestlemania 9 but Vince said no. What a dumb decision.
Beating Savage wouldn't be quite the same as beating Hogan but it'd still have been a big moment. And nothing against Bret/Yoko but Bret/Savage is way bigger. It's not like Randy was some over the hill guy. He won the title at Wrestlemania the previous year and was in marquee matches at Summerslam and Survivor Series just months earlier.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Jan 31, 2023 18:58:13 GMT -5
Bret was over, but Hogan putting him over would have elevated him to a higher level. How? Business was down. How was Hogan putting over Bret going to help Bret AND the company? And I'll reiterate, is the fact that Bret didn't beat Hogan mean that Bret has an incomplete legacy? Kayfabe wise. Business wise nah it probably wouldn't have mattered one way or another, but just story wise, that's the biggest name in wrestling, character wise it couldn't hurt. I guess you're asking why, we're asking why not.
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