Hogan not wanting to do the Job at Summerslam 93! Good or no

[jason1980s]

Jan 31, 2023 18:22:49 GMT -5 Jindrak Mark said:

Even if Hogan/Bret couldn't happen due to Hogan's ego it's still mind boggling to me that Savage was apparently pitching to put over Bret at Wrestlemania 9 but Vince said no. What a dumb decision.

Beating Savage wouldn't be quite the same as beating Hogan but it'd still have been a big moment. And nothing against Bret/Yoko but Bret/Savage is way bigger. It's not like Randy was some over the hill guy. He won the title at Wrestlemania the previous year and was in marquee matches at Summerslam and Survivor Series just months earlier.

Yeah, I don't get what Vince's issue with having Randy wrestle was. He was younger then than a few big time guys in promotions now. He always gave an awesome performance. But I think Vince just liked him so much he wanted him on "his side" as in, in the commentator booth. Just like him letting Andre go in 91, he basically let Macho go right to WCW. And like Andre, the two never made up before their deaths.

[Cranjis McBasketball]

Jan 31, 2023 18:22:49 GMT -5 Jindrak Mark said:

Even if Hogan/Bret couldn't happen due to Hogan's ego it's still mind boggling to me that Savage was apparently pitching to put over Bret at Wrestlemania 9 but Vince said no. What a dumb decision.

Beating Savage wouldn't be quite the same as beating Hogan but it'd still have been a big moment. And nothing against Bret/Yoko but Bret/Savage is way bigger. It's not like Randy was some over the hill guy. He won the title at Wrestlemania the previous year and was in marquee matches at Summerslam and Survivor Series just months earlier.

At Survivor Series 89, the crowd popped HUGE when Bret and Macho King faced off in the ring.

Outside of a SNME and a couple house shows, it’s a shame they never had a program.

[tirtefaa]

Jan 31, 2023 18:58:13 GMT -5 Kevin Hamilton said:

Kayfabe wise. Business wise nah it probably wouldn't have mattered one way or another, but just story wise, that's the biggest name in wrestling, character wise it couldn't hurt.

I guess you're asking why, we're asking why not.

I say this, because watching in 1993...I never really cared that Hogan and Hart didn't cross paths. It didn't make sense, especially since WWF didn't normally do face vs. face programs.

I mean a "why not" is fine, but using that as a criticism of Hogan is not, especially if it meant nothing more than a fulfillment of another person's ego. Again, I can see if Hogan affected business negatively or personally went after Bret over something, but neither is the case. Hogan left WWF losing the title to Yokozuna instead of Bret Hart...and that's it. What would the endgame of Bret Hart beating SummerSlam have been? I mean, we can speculate all day, but it does remove a dominant heel in Yokozuna, at a time when WWF didn't have a lot of dominant heels.

[Baldobomb-22-OH-MAN!!!]

Well y'all know my feelings about Hogan already...

[Lizuka #BLM]

I don't really put a lot of value in the whole prospect of putting someone over meaning much longterm anyway - Bret beating Hogan wouldn't change the realities of how much the business was changing and falling off at that point regardless - but I do think if the idea WAS to put someone over then Yokozuna was probably the smarter idea in terms of trying to make a Hogan replacement out of it in the long run. It didn't work, like, at all, but that's because 1993 had shit booking so we loop back around to that earlier problem.

[Oh Cry Me a Screwball]

Yeah, putting Bret over Hogan with the intent of crowning Bret as the big top star is certainly risky, because there is a good chance the audience goes for Hogan, and that would hurt Bret regardless of the result.

On the other hand, if you made Hogan even the slightest bit self-less and have him actually put someone over in 1993, Yokozuna is certainly that dude. And then you put Bret over the guy who killed Hulkamania, maybe even playing off that Bret's scientific/technical approach was better suited to overcoming the size difference than Hogan's style was. Maybe then, you can build to an already crowned Bret defending against Hogan, who resents Bret for doing what he couldn't do, and if done right, the fans can sense Hogan's bitterness and that's how Hogan can become the antagonist in the match, even if it's face/face on the surface.

But that's all fantasy booking because that would never work for the Hulkster, brother.

[The Dark Order Inferno]

One thing people aren't taking in to consideration is the fact Hulk was damaged goods at that point in time. He was fresh off steroid and drug scandals and a disastrous media tour where rather than own up and show humility, he denied steroid use in a way that fooled nobody. It would be absurd to put Bret over peak Hulk, but that wasn't who he was at this point in time, he was scandal plagued, shrunk down Hulk whose drawing power was on the wane, so a 'passing the torch' moment was not the most outlandish thing they could have done.

Honestly, given how the WWF brand was viewed by the public at that point, keeping the belt on the embodiment of that is more absurd, but the public don't have Vince's ear the way Hulk did.

[eJm]

Feb 1, 2023 4:26:56 GMT -5 The Dark Order Inferno said:

One thing people aren't taking in to consideration is the fact Hulk was damaged goods at that point in time. He was fresh off steroid and drug scandals and a disastrous media tour where rather than own up and show humility, he denied steroid use in a way that fooled nobody. It would be absurd to put Bret over peak Hulk, but that wasn't who he was at this point in time, he was scandal plagued, shrunk down Hulk whose drawing power was on the wane, so a 'passing the torch' moment was not the most outlandish thing they could have done.

Honestly, given how the WWF brand was viewed by the public at that point, keeping the belt on the embodiment of that is more absurd, but the public don't have Vince's ear the way Hulk did.

Hogan also said he was going to retire and get into acting which, admittedly (by Hogan standards), he did until Bischoff drove the dump truck full of money to the set of Thunder in Paradise and dropped it next to his trailer.

[Deleted]

It’s easy to look at this through today’s lens, but this would have been a terrible idea at the time. Bret tapping Hogan out would have instantly turned Bret heel for well over half the audience, and that’s a conservative estimate. Hogan in 1993 was still wildly over with most WWF fans. I was at the shows and heard the pops for the Mega Maniacs at the time. To say Hogan wasn’t still the guy, or at the very least “1-B” is revisionist history.

WCW in ‘93, however, is a different story. Those crowds *hated* Hogan. I can remember lulls in the action being filled “Hogan sucks” chants at shows he wasn’t even on. Those fans knew exactly what was coming for WCW with Hogan on board.

[thecrusherwi]

Feb 1, 2023 1:01:56 GMT -5 Oh Cry Me a Screwball said:

Yeah, putting Bret over Hogan with the intent of crowning Bret as the big top star is certainly risky, because there is a good chance the audience goes for Hogan, and that would hurt Bret regardless of the result.

On the other hand, if you made Hogan even the slightest bit self-less and have him actually put someone over in 1993, Yokozuna is certainly that dude. And then you put Bret over the guy who killed Hulkamania, maybe even playing off that Bret's scientific/technical approach was better suited to overcoming the size difference than Hogan's style was. Maybe then, you can build to an already crowned Bret defending against Hogan, who resents Bret for doing what he couldn't do, and if done right, the fans can sense Hogan's bitterness and that's how Hogan can become the antagonist in the match, even if it's face/face on the surface.

But that's all fantasy booking because that would never work for the Hulkster, brother.

I agree with most of your comment, but they had Yokozuna kick out of the leg drop after the full Hulk-up sequence, beat Hogan 1-2-3 with no kickout post pinfall, Banzai drop him after the match, and celebrate while Hogan was helped out never to be seen again. Even with the interference, that's about as decisive of a babyface loss the WWF booked in that era. They protected Bret at WrestleMania IX more than they protected Hogan at KOTR.

[msc]

For as flawed as Hogan is as a person, and I can well believe him manipulating the situation, I think this is a case of Vince saying different things to different people and letting them tear into each other instead of him.

And yeah, no idea why they didn't do Savage/Bret. Macho Man was right there, willing to do the job. History has shown Savage still had it in the ring until at least 1997-98. Him putting over Bret clean in a main event would have done wonders for the New Generation.

[Jindrak Mark]

Feb 1, 2023 7:37:49 GMT -5 @wvguitar said:

It’s easy to look at this through today’s lens, but this would have been a terrible idea at the time. Bret tapping Hogan out would have instantly turned Bret heel for well over half the audience, and that’s a conservative estimate. Hogan in 1993 was still wildly over with most WWF fans. I was at the shows and heard the pops for the Mega Maniacs at the time. To say Hogan wasn’t still the guy, or at the very least “1-B” is revisionist history.

That's the weird thing about the Wrestlemania 9 incident. It's looked back on as this horrific thing but the crowd absolutely loved it.

Hogan in 93 wasn't the draw he was 5 years earlier but he was still far more popular than everyone else. Hogan even in a tag title match at Wrestlemania 9 was probably the biggest draw on the show. I don't think WWF crowds were tired of him at all. I can only think of one time the crowd seemed iffy with him and that was at Royal Rumble 92 when he was a sore loser with Sid and got some boos but it didn't stick and he went right back to getting wildly cheered during their feud and eventual match.

Hogan would very likely have been cheered over Bret. It's still a shame we never got the match though. Hogan/Bret at Summerslam 93 just sounds like a mega match and I'd happily sacrifice Yoko/Luger for it. I do think if it happens and Bret is winning it has to have a finish like his match with Piper or the way Owen beat him, some kind of fancy pinning combination. Bret submitting Hogan with the sharpshooter was just never going to happen and I think a lot of fans would have been disappointed seeing Hogan tap out. Even if he's on his way out of the company you've spent a decade making this guy the ultimate superhero for kids who never gives up, I don't think they'd want to see that. It's why I never wanted Cena to lose an i quit match or tap out. You've spent so long building this legacy and aura. He can be beaten so bad he passes out or something but he shouldn't give up, let his fans keep that hope that he's always given them.

[Milkman Norm]

Hogan turned out to be a shit person but the amount of yeahbuting how over and important he was is remarkable

[Jaws the Shark]

Hart was by this point an established main eventer, and Hogan refusing to put him over would've been the behaviour of an absolute tosser. But by the same token, Hart didn't need the rub from Hogan.

It still could've been done though. You could base the whole thing on the two of them having a mutual respect for what one another is all about and their abilities and wanting to prove themselves by beating the other, and then emphasise the clash of styles, with Hogan needing to overpower the cannier Hart, and Hart trying to turn it into a wrestling match. And then when Hogan does lose, he presents him with the belt and shakes his hand in a feelgood moment.

[ThankGodForSidJustice]

Feb 1, 2023 13:00:37 GMT -5 Jindrak Mark said:

Feb 1, 2023 7:37:49 GMT -5 @wvguitar said:

It’s easy to look at this through today’s lens, but this would have been a terrible idea at the time. Bret tapping Hogan out would have instantly turned Bret heel for well over half the audience, and that’s a conservative estimate. Hogan in 1993 was still wildly over with most WWF fans. I was at the shows and heard the pops for the Mega Maniacs at the time. To say Hogan wasn’t still the guy, or at the very least “1-B” is revisionist history.

That's the weird thing about the Wrestlemania 9 incident. It's looked back on as this horrific thing but the crowd absolutely loved it.

Hogan in 93 wasn't the draw he was 5 years earlier but he was still far more popular than everyone else. Hogan even in a tag title match at Wrestlemania 9 was probably the biggest draw on the show. I don't think WWF crowds were tired of him at all. I can only think of one time the crowd seemed iffy with him and that was at Royal Rumble 92 when he was a sore loser with Sid and got some boos but it didn't stick and he went right back to getting wildly cheered during their feud and eventual match.

Hogan would very likely have been cheered over Bret. It's still a shame we never got the match though. Hogan/Bret at Summerslam 93 just sounds like a mega match and I'd happily sacrifice Yoko/Luger for it. I do think if it happens and Bret is winning it has to have a finish like his match with Piper or the way Owen beat him, some kind of fancy pinning combination. Bret submitting Hogan with the sharpshooter was just never going to happen and I think a lot of fans would have been disappointed seeing Hogan tap out. Even if he's on his way out of the company you've spent a decade making this guy the ultimate superhero for kids who never gives up, I don't think they'd want to see that. It's why I never wanted Cena to lose an i quit match or tap out. You've spent so long building this legacy and aura. He can be beaten so bad he passes out or something but he shouldn't give up, let his fans keep that hope that he's always given them.

It is revisionist and Hogan was still over. I think the issue was more it wasn't the company needed at that point. It was time to move on from Hogan whether it be with Bret or someone else. Also while he was still over it wasn't nearly as much as had been during his prime 84-91 run.

Also I think a lot of the reason why his reactions were still great was because he had been gone almost a year after Wrestlemania VIII and people missed him. If you remember fans were clearly starting to get sick of him in late 91 into early 92. There were audible cheers when Undertaker beat him at Survivor Series 91 and they were also clearly on Sid's side at Rumble 92 both when he tossed Hogan and then also during their post match altercation after Hogan pulled him over the top rope from outside the ring which didn't help matters as it made him look like a sore loser and a horrible face.

[Chuck Conry]

Hogan could of put Bret over clean but I don't think he needed to tap out or submit to do it.

[dirtyoldman]

Would Wtestlemania X been a better place to have it? Hogan could work programs against Yokozuna, Luger and maybe Beefcake could turn on him. Bret could have his Lawler fued with Shawn Michaels in there at some point.
During the year they could tease a 'What if...' then give Bret a Decisive Rumble win and go from there
Maybe even hold the event in Canada...

[fortknox]

Feb 1, 2023 17:25:39 GMT -5 dirtyoldman said:

Would Wtestlemania X been a better place to have it? Hogan could work programs against Yokozuna, Luger and maybe Beefcake could turn on him. Bret could have his Lawler fued with Shawn Michaels in there at some point.
During the year they could tease a 'What if...' then give Bret a Decisive Rumble win and go from there
Maybe even hold the event in Canada...

But, then that would mean no Bret vs Owen, so I'd rather it happen at Summerslam.

[Deleted]

Feb 1, 2023 13:08:08 GMT -5 Milkman Norm said:

Hogan turned out to be a shit person but the amount of yeahbuting how over and important he was is remarkable

There’s no way to avoid talking about how huge of a cultural phenomenon Hogan was when discussing booking him in that era. I don’t know how to get around it.

The facts that Hogan is a racist, pathological liar and the biggest thing pro wrestling has ever seen by FAR can and do coexist.

[Cranjis McBasketball]

Feb 1, 2023 22:47:35 GMT -5 @wvguitar said:

Feb 1, 2023 13:08:08 GMT -5 Milkman Norm said:

Hogan turned out to be a shit person but the amount of yeahbuting how over and important he was is remarkable

There’s no way to avoid talking about how huge of a cultural phenomenon Hogan was when discussing booking him in that era. I don’t know how to get around it.

The facts that Hogan is a racist, pathological liar and the biggest thing pro wrestling has ever seen by FAR can and do coexist.

To be fair, I was 8 feet away from Bret at his one man show, like three days after Piper died and however many days removed from Hogan being exposed and Bret said Hogan didn’t stand out from any other American wrestler and being from Canada, most of what they said was appalling.

Take that information however you choose.