ghost
Don Corleone
Posts: 1,801
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Post by ghost on Feb 2, 2023 10:41:54 GMT -5
I remember watching a "shoot" interview with Tiny Lister (Zeus) who said something to the effect of "Vince wanted to give me the belt". I instantly believed Zeus when he said that, even though I know Vince had no intention of ever doing it. There's no doubt in my mind that Vince sold Bret on the idea of facing/beating Hogan at Summerslam. Whether it was actually planned is an entirely different story.
My personal opinion is I don't think it was ever going to happen even if Hogan was on board with it. For one thing, if Hogan was going away for a while, then the point would have been to make Bret the top babyface. How do you make him the top face when facing Hogan would have split the crowd? Granted 93 Hogan wasn't as over as prime Hogan, but he was still massively over and they would have run the risk of having a portion of the crowd (if not a lot of them) rooting against Bret. Or the alternative was Hogan would have had to play the heel in the match even as a face (ala Rock at WM 18) and that would have hurt Hogan, which at the time Vince wouldn't have wanted either since WCW wasn't on the radar by that point. They were much better off coronating Bret as the top star by having him beat a heel, so in hindsight, ending Yoko's long reign the following year made more sense.
I think a better argument is that Hogan should have jobbed to Bret in WCW.
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Post by Milkman Norm on Feb 2, 2023 11:14:14 GMT -5
There’s no way to avoid talking about how huge of a cultural phenomenon Hogan was when discussing booking him in that era. I don’t know how to get around it. The facts that Hogan is a racist, pathological liar and the biggest thing pro wrestling has ever seen by FAR can and do coexist. To be fair, I was 8 feet away from Bret at his one man show, like three days after Piper died and however many days removed from Hogan being exposed and Bret said Hogan didn’t stand out from any other American wrestler and being from Canada, most of what they said was appalling. Take that information however you choose. I get that the second paragraph makes people want to hand wave the first part away. But when it comes to even doing a form of fantasy booking based somewhat in reality , the post Starrcade 97 period, as example the lengths people will go to down play Hogan's importance is just absurd to me. I remember people saying that WCW should have let him go. When I raised the point that Vince brought him in 4 years later & he was over, so why wouldn't he in 1998? people came up with justifications for that not happening. I understand the cognitive reasoning behind wanting minimize Hogan's importance but it isn't based in reality.
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Post by eudypfohl on Feb 5, 2023 12:41:32 GMT -5
There’s no way to avoid talking about how huge of a cultural phenomenon Hogan was when discussing booking him in that era. I don’t know how to get around it. The facts that Hogan is a racist, pathological liar and the biggest thing pro wrestling has ever seen by FAR can and do coexist. To be fair, I was 8 feet away from Bret at his one man show, like three days after Piper died and however many days removed from Hogan being exposed and Bret said Hogan didn’t stand out from any other American wrestler and being from Canada, most of what they said was appalling. Take that information however you choose. Exactly. The pearl clutching over that was a bit ridiculous.
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Post by eudypfohl on Feb 5, 2023 12:44:51 GMT -5
I find it hard to imagine the visual of Bret and Hulk going at it in the ring. The 'passing the torch' match to put Bret over should have been vs. Savage, who was more than willing to help get Bret, Shawn etc. over. What a missed opportunity. Didn't they actually work together on house shows? I remember the Apter mags talking about it. Bret vs Macho. But I dont really remember it being advertised... perhaps it was a trial run to see how they would work in a main event feud. Not sure why it was scrapped
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Post by eudypfohl on Feb 5, 2023 12:48:00 GMT -5
That's the weird thing about the Wrestlemania 9 incident. It's looked back on as this horrific thing but the crowd absolutely loved it. Hogan in 93 wasn't the draw he was 5 years earlier but he was still far more popular than everyone else. Hogan even in a tag title match at Wrestlemania 9 was probably the biggest draw on the show. I don't think WWF crowds were tired of him at all. I can only think of one time the crowd seemed iffy with him and that was at Royal Rumble 92 when he was a sore loser with Sid and got some boos but it didn't stick and he went right back to getting wildly cheered during their feud and eventual match. Hogan would very likely have been cheered over Bret. It's still a shame we never got the match though. Hogan/Bret at Summerslam 93 just sounds like a mega match and I'd happily sacrifice Yoko/Luger for it. I do think if it happens and Bret is winning it has to have a finish like his match with Piper or the way Owen beat him, some kind of fancy pinning combination. Bret submitting Hogan with the sharpshooter was just never going to happen and I think a lot of fans would have been disappointed seeing Hogan tap out. Even if he's on his way out of the company you've spent a decade making this guy the ultimate superhero for kids who never gives up, I don't think they'd want to see that. It's why I never wanted Cena to lose an i quit match or tap out. You've spent so long building this legacy and aura. He can be beaten so bad he passes out or something but he shouldn't give up, let his fans keep that hope that he's always given them. It is revisionist and Hogan was still over. I think the issue was more it wasn't the company needed at that point. It was time to move on from Hogan whether it be with Bret or someone else. Also while he was still over it wasn't nearly as much as had been during his prime 84-91 run. Also I think a lot of the reason why his reactions were still great was because he had been gone almost a year after Wrestlemania VIII and people missed him. If you remember fans were clearly starting to get sick of him in late 91 into early 92. There were audible cheers when Undertaker beat him at Survivor Series 91 and they were also clearly on Sid's side at Rumble 92 both when he tossed Hogan and then also during their post match altercation after Hogan pulled him over the top rope from outside the ring which didn't help matters as it made him look like a sore loser and a horrible face. Also on the MSG house shows when Flair pinned Hogan you could hear very audible cheers for Nature Boy before the decision was reversed fwiw that was an outstanding match
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Post by wildojinx on Feb 5, 2023 12:53:17 GMT -5
I find it hard to imagine the visual of Bret and Hulk going at it in the ring. The 'passing the torch' match to put Bret over should have been vs. Savage, who was more than willing to help get Bret, Shawn etc. over. What a missed opportunity. Didn't they actually work together on house shows? I remember the Apter mags talking about it. Bret vs Macho. But I dont really remember it being advertised... perhaps it was a trial run to see how they would work in a main event feud. Not sure why it was scrapped It was from the 1994 Japan tour, months before Savage left.
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