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Post by Finish Uncle Muffin’s Story on Feb 7, 2023 10:18:08 GMT -5
I had a thought. Are Edge and Beth going to get booed? I mean it's happened before for Edge and now with how over Rhea is and Finn is perma over so I think it'll be interesting. Nah. It's Canada. Edge is going to get a hero's welcome.
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Post by Finish Uncle Muffin’s Story on Feb 7, 2023 10:21:46 GMT -5
Liv isn't even believable, since Bianca has already beaten her multiple times as well. And she is coming off of a pretty awful title run from last year, and her new character isn't really sticking either. Its a mess. I thought Liv’s title run elevated her from lower card act to upper mid/main event mainstay, and her new character seems to be keeping her over and involved on TV when many in similar spots have faded after their title runs. Liv's over. It's not a "mess." She was extremely popular at MSG a few months ago, which is still a pretty good gauge for how most people react around the country. Little kids losing their minds, wanting hugs from her, stuff like that. I wish people would put aside their bias when it comes to the women's division, it makes it really hard to have a good faith conversation. I think Lizuka may have had the best take here - the whole division is kind of weak with the exception of one or two folks (one of whom is Liv, the other is Asuka). Putting Piper in there does nobody any good, especially if they want her to be the first challenge after Mania. I could see Asuka/Piper being where things go.
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mj0mn0m
Don Corleone
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Post by mj0mn0m on Feb 7, 2023 10:55:19 GMT -5
I'd go nuts about Liv vs. Doudrop for the belt after 'Mania. Absolutely loved their lil' rivarly last year, the best bout being in Main Event. 🤩
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mj0mn0m
Don Corleone
👆 I-N-D-E-P-E-N-D-E-N-T ~ Do you know what that means? ~ Can't see me B-R-O-K-E ~ I'm P-A-I-D 🤑
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Post by mj0mn0m on Feb 7, 2023 11:16:17 GMT -5
I think Carmella makes more sense to put into the match than Piper anyway given this way you don't have to have Piper get pinned while she's being rebuilt and they seem to be immediately turning her around into an angle anyway. Though I do think the match shows the central problem with the women's division right now in that like Asuka's really the only person, other than maybe Liv, who is at all believable as facing Bianca at Mania. Bianca / Natalya would be a reach at Backlash, much less WrestleMania. Liv isn't even believable, since Bianca has already beaten her multiple times as well. And she is coming off of a pretty awful title run from last year, and her new character isn't really sticking either. Its a mess. SmackDown's recent (Ronda, Charlotte...) women's title reigns have been way awful. I do think Liv's title run was memorable one compared to these, somehow even in defeat it all elevated her, ' cause straight away we got the psycho daredevil persona. (Which I think is just the best. 😜) ... Outside Tribute to the Troops and at Main Event, almost two years ago - I don't think Bianca and Liv have faced off in singles competition in the main roster. Liv has evolved BIG TIME from those days. (= Former MITB, WWE Champion. Co-Iron Woman. ) - it's a fresh match to make, they have HUGE history together. It would make excellent main event.
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asuka007
Fry's dog Seymour
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Post by asuka007 on Feb 7, 2023 13:47:02 GMT -5
I thought Liv’s title run elevated her from lower card act to upper mid/main event mainstay, and her new character seems to be keeping her over and involved on TV when many in similar spots have faded after their title runs. Liv's over. It's not a "mess." She was extremely popular at MSG a few months ago, which is still a pretty good gauge for how most people react around the country. Little kids losing their minds, wanting hugs from her, stuff like that. I wish people would put aside their bias when it comes to the women's division, it makes it really hard to have a good faith conversation. I think Lizuka may have had the best take here - the whole division is kind of weak with the exception of one or two folks (one of whom is Liv, the other is Asuka). Putting Piper in there does nobody any good, especially if they want her to be the first challenge after Mania. I could see Asuka/Piper being where things go. They just need to book the SD Women better in general. Like Liv is over, so run with that more. It feels like they struggle with that division probably more than any other in the company.
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Post by ThankGodForSidJustice on Feb 7, 2023 15:36:52 GMT -5
Liv's over. It's not a "mess." She was extremely popular at MSG a few months ago, which is still a pretty good gauge for how most people react around the country. Little kids losing their minds, wanting hugs from her, stuff like that. I wish people would put aside their bias when it comes to the women's division, it makes it really hard to have a good faith conversation. I think Lizuka may have had the best take here - the whole division is kind of weak with the exception of one or two folks (one of whom is Liv, the other is Asuka). Putting Piper in there does nobody any good, especially if they want her to be the first challenge after Mania. I could see Asuka/Piper being where things go. They just need to book the SD Women better in general. Like Liv is over, so run with that more. It feels like they struggle with that division probably more than any other in the company. I would say the combination of it being a two hour show and also being the show the Bloodline is on are the big reasons for that. Therefore the only people who are consistently going to be featured are tippy top girls like Charlotte and Ronda. Liv and Raquel get a little love but not a lot. Then everyone else gets nothing. Sonya Deville hasn't won a singles match in over a year and they still couldn't be bothered to give her a win when she was in a title feud. Emma has been back for over three months now and still hasn't won a match. If you don't want to push these girls fine but at least give them something so that when they do job it means something for the women they are losing to. Then you also have women like Tegan Nox or Xia Li where they'll kind of start to do something with and then they're just off TV for a month. I think it's just a combination of it being a shorter show and on top of it them just not being good at handling their time as well. I definitely think though if you are more a midcard woman trying to work your way up the ladder that Raw is a much better show to be on. Not great by any means but better. Like Candice LeRae and Mia Yim haven't been booked well but at least they are having matches every week and are at least being given something to work with.
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asuka007
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Post by asuka007 on Feb 7, 2023 15:44:28 GMT -5
They just need to book the SD Women better in general. Like Liv is over, so run with that more. It feels like they struggle with that division probably more than any other in the company. I would say the combination of it being a two hour show and also being the show the Bloodline is on are the big reasons for that. Therefore the only people who are consistently going to be featured are tippy top girls like Charlotte and Ronda. Liv and Raquel get a little love but not a lot. Then everyone else gets nothing. Sonya Deville hasn't won a singles match in over a year and they still couldn't be bothered to give her a win when she was in a title feud. Emma has been back for over three months now and still hasn't won a match. If you don't want to push these girls fine but at least give them something so that when they do job it means something for the women they are losing to. Then you also have women like Tegan Nox or Xia Li where they'll kind of start to do something with and then they're just off TV for a month. I think it's just a combination of it being a shorter show and on top of it them just not being good at handling their time as well. I definitely think though if you are more a midcard woman trying to work your way up the ladder that Raw is a much better show to be on. Not great by any means but better. Like Candice LeRae and Mia Yim haven't been booked well but at least they are having matches every week and are at least being given something to work with. They also just don’t put much effort into trying to build credibly challengers. Like the entire Charlotte vs. Sonya feud was telling us how much the latter sucks and Charlotte not taking her seriously at all. They barely did anything with Shotzi before she faced Ronda. Ronda basically no sold Liv as a threat during their feud as well. And then once these people lose, they disappear into creative limbo at lot of the time. There’s just an astounding lack of effort on the booking’s part.
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mj0mn0m
Don Corleone
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Post by mj0mn0m on Feb 8, 2023 11:06:00 GMT -5
I'm dying to see that women's Elimination Chamber match already.
I can't believe how Liv ALWAYS raises the bar as far as how INVESTED in I'm to the match outcomes. 💪
At Elimination Chamber, it'll be either the greatest night in the history of wrestling (yet again) or a total punch in the gut that'll ruin WrestleMania for me.
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schma
Hank Scorpio
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Post by schma on Feb 10, 2023 10:41:01 GMT -5
I just looked at results from Monday. I didn't even realize Carmella was on Raw or that she was active. Is it just me or does her winning seem completely out of left field?
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Post by polarbearpete on Feb 10, 2023 10:53:41 GMT -5
I just looked at results from Monday. I didn't even realize Carmella was on Raw or that she was active. Is it just me or does her winning seem completely out of left field? She just returned, this was her first match back.
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Post by ThankGodForSidJustice on Feb 10, 2023 14:45:03 GMT -5
I just looked at results from Monday. I didn't even realize Carmella was on Raw or that she was active. Is it just me or does her winning seem completely out of left field? I don't think so. I was expecting her to win as if was her first match back, she's someone who has always been pushed, and for better or worse was the highest on the totem pole of the four in the match. It also seemed like they were setting up something with her Asuka, who was already in, the week before where they had a backstage confrontation.
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Post by mistery on Feb 10, 2023 14:51:03 GMT -5
I just looked at results from Monday. I didn't even realize Carmella was on Raw or that she was active. Is it just me or does her winning seem completely out of left field? I don't think so. I was expecting her to win as if was her first match back, she's someone who has always been pushed, and for better or worse was the highest on the totem pole of the four in the match. It also seemed like they were setting up something with her Asuka, who was already in, the week before where they had a backstage confrontation. Pretty much this. I don't think anyone expects Carmella to actually win the Chamber though, especially since Bianca has beaten Carmella like ten billion times over two title reigns. The only woman in the Chamber that Bianca hasn't beaten yet (in ANY type of matchup) is Raquel, although I don't think they are going down that route because Raquel has like next to no real star power and is basically the women's version of Karrion Kross in terms of reception. Bianca hasn't beaten Asuka in a televised singles match yet though either, which is why she's likely the strong favorite to win the Chamber. And a case could also be made that Bianca should lose at Mania, as her current character is stale and it's time for a refresh for her.
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Post by ThankGodForSidJustice on Feb 10, 2023 15:11:02 GMT -5
I don't think so. I was expecting her to win as if was her first match back, she's someone who has always been pushed, and for better or worse was the highest on the totem pole of the four in the match. It also seemed like they were setting up something with her Asuka, who was already in, the week before where they had a backstage confrontation. Pretty much this. I don't think anyone expects Carmella to actually win the Chamber though, especially since Bianca has beaten Carmella like ten billion times over two title reigns. The only woman in the Chamber that Bianca hasn't beaten yet (in ANY type of matchup) is Raquel, although I don't think they are going down that route because Raquel has like next to no real star power and is basically the women's version of Karrion Kross in terms of reception. Bianca hasn't beaten Asuka in a televised singles match yet though either, which is why she's likely the strong favorite to win the Chamber. And a case could also be made that Bianca should lose at Mania, as her current character is stale and it's time for a refresh for her. I'm not expecting her to win either mainly for the reason you said with Bianca already beating her so many times. I wouldn't completely rule it out and say she has absolutely no chance either in that she has returned after a fairly long layoff, it's a farily wide open field in that it's a very midcardy chamber where there isn't anyone in it who is heavily pushed, and I could maybe see them having her win as a nice gesture with what happened to her recently. I think she has a much better chance then Nikki and Natalya for instance. Ordering them from most likely to least likely I would say it's Asuka > Raquel > Liv > Carmella > Nikki > Natalya.
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Post by mistery on Feb 10, 2023 15:16:21 GMT -5
Pretty much this. I don't think anyone expects Carmella to actually win the Chamber though, especially since Bianca has beaten Carmella like ten billion times over two title reigns. The only woman in the Chamber that Bianca hasn't beaten yet (in ANY type of matchup) is Raquel, although I don't think they are going down that route because Raquel has like next to no real star power and is basically the women's version of Karrion Kross in terms of reception. Bianca hasn't beaten Asuka in a televised singles match yet though either, which is why she's likely the strong favorite to win the Chamber. And a case could also be made that Bianca should lose at Mania, as her current character is stale and it's time for a refresh for her. I'm not expecting her to win either mainly for the reason you said with Bianca already beating her so many times. I wouldn't completely rule it out and say she has absolutely no chance either in that she has returned after a fairly long layoff, it's a farily wide open field in that it's a very midcardy chamber where there isn't anyone in it who is heavily pushed, and I could maybe see them having her win as a nice gesture with what happened to her recently. I think she has a much better chance then Nikki and Natalya for instance. Ordering them from most likely to least likely I would say it's Asuka > Raquel > Liv > Carmella > Nikki > Natalya. I would honestly say they are trying to make Asuka a main eventer again after how well received she was at the Rumble. This new reinvention of her character and how hard commentary is putting it over leads me to believe she's not coming back to just be a midcarder or gatekeeper. Especially when you have people like Road Dogg who are openly saying she should be the Roman Reigns of the women's division, and he has a lot of influence backstage. That's one of the big reasons why I think she's a favorite to win the Chamber and the title. Bianca needs to drop the title just because her flaws have become more and more pronounced over the past year as champion. Same bland material every week, her promos are very obviously scripted with how they are delivered, etc. It doesn't help that she never sells anyone as a threat either.
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Post by ThankGodForSidJustice on Feb 10, 2023 15:45:13 GMT -5
I'm not expecting her to win either mainly for the reason you said with Bianca already beating her so many times. I wouldn't completely rule it out and say she has absolutely no chance either in that she has returned after a fairly long layoff, it's a farily wide open field in that it's a very midcardy chamber where there isn't anyone in it who is heavily pushed, and I could maybe see them having her win as a nice gesture with what happened to her recently. I think she has a much better chance then Nikki and Natalya for instance. Ordering them from most likely to least likely I would say it's Asuka > Raquel > Liv > Carmella > Nikki > Natalya. I would honestly say they are trying to make Asuka a main eventer again after how well received she was at the Rumble. This new reinvention of her character and how hard commentary is putting it over leads me to believe she's not coming back to just be a midcarder or gatekeeper. Especially when you have people like Road Dogg who are openly saying she should be the Roman Reigns of the women's division, and he has a lot of influence backstage. That's one of the big reasons why I think she's a favorite to win the Chamber and the title. Bianca needs to drop the title just because her flaws have become more and more pronounced over the past year as champion. Same bland material every week, her promos are very obviously scripted with how they are delivered, etc. It doesn't help that she never sells anyone as a threat either. It's still a little early for me to say if she's going to be pushed as a main eventer but with her looking like the favorite win the Chamber it does seem like a good possibility. Either way giving her a new look and a big push definitely isn't a bad idea. Even though she's in her 40's she's still performing at a high level and doesn't seem to be slowing down. She's also managed to stay very over as well. Only problem is other then Bianca she's already worked a lot with all the girls who are on top. I would prefer if they could eleveate someone else who was maybe a bit fresher but to be fair they don't really have anyone qualified for that at the moment.
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Post by theironyuppie on Feb 12, 2023 8:52:02 GMT -5
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Post by hbkid718 on Feb 15, 2023 22:07:29 GMT -5
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Post by theironyuppie on Feb 15, 2023 23:55:50 GMT -5
Nice work. A related fun fact is that with the exception of Raquel, who she hasn't faced yet, Bianca already has multiple clean victories over every woman in the Chamber:
Carmella: 9x (eight singles, one fatal four-way) Natalya: 3x (two singles, one triple-threat) Liv: 3x (two singles, one fatal four-way) Asuka: 2x (one singles, one triple-threat) Nikki: 2x (two singles)
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Post by Lizuka #BLM on Feb 17, 2023 5:29:02 GMT -5
Do have to wonder if they're going to suddenly rush another two or three matches for the card on SmackDown. They've had Elimination Chamber cards with six matches before, but I can't really see the women's match running too long past the last entrant coming in and we know Lashley / Brock isn't running long. Wouldn't be really expecting a 20 minute match out of the mixed tag either.
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Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on Feb 17, 2023 5:41:37 GMT -5
Do have to wonder if they're going to suddenly rush another two or three matches for the card on SmackDown. They've had Elimination Chamber cards with six matches before, but I can't really see the women's match running too long past the last entrant coming in and we know Lashley / Brock isn't running long. Wouldn't be really expecting a 20 minute match out of the mixed tag either. Logic would’ve dictated that, with no Usos available to defend the tag belts (presumably, I know there’s been chatter that they’re allowed in Canada again), that you have Gunther defending the IC belt (even if it IS against Moss) or at the very least, a blowoff for this McIntyre/Sheamus v Viking Raiders busy work feud. But they seem to be using that to buttress up the TV shows.
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