Did you lose respect for Konnan as a person?

[SirLucas]

If you ever watched Kayfabe Commentaries back in the day, you are probably familiar with the story of Konnan being booked for a shoot. I forget the reason, but he ended up having to cancel his appearance. But he ended up keeping the deposit that Sean Oliver paid him and never agreed to reschedule. Subsequently, every time Konnan name was mentioned on a shoot, Sean would be sure to remind the guest and audience that Konnan took money for a shoot and never repaid. 

As far as Konnan's post WCW reputation, do you put him in the category of carney wrestler?

[Mozenrath]

I am voting no, mostly since I just kind of never have thought of Konnan as some paragon of virtue.

Certainly, a lot of people do think highly of him, mostly in lucha circles, for having done a lot for others' careers, but I think even a lot of them do so knowing he's often going to look out for himself, which I suppose is his prerogative.

If you saw a luchador in ECW and WCW, there was an enormous chance Konnan personally got them booked, Rey included.

[jason1980s]

This may be what I immediately think of when I think of Konnan. I always thought it was an autograph signing he backed out of and the promoter was screwed on the money but maybe it was just Sean or perhaps someone else too. I am hoping and thinking Konnan changed. I know around the time I was thinking of he was in very ill health and awaiting a transplant. He did a show autograph show in 2011 and looked really bad.

I get Sean's frustration though and with probably little recourse all you have is to call the person out publicly. I know one promoter did this on his website right after Sid no showed on him in 2005. I can imagine some promoters put so much on the line to make a show successful and when they have to "eat" the money they prepaid to talent or for airfare, rooms that can be a really awful thing to swallow.

[KAMALARAMBO: BOOMSHAKALAKA!!!]

Feb 4, 2023 20:50:00 GMT -5 jason1980s said:

This may be what I immediately think of when I think of Konnan. I always thought it was an autograph signing he backed out of and the promoter was screwed on the money but maybe it was just Sean or perhaps someone else too. I am hoping and thinking Konnan changed. I know around the time I was thinking of he was in very ill health and awaiting a transplant. He did a show autograph show in 2011 and looked really bad.

I get Sean's frustration though and with probably little recourse all you have is to call the person out publicly. I know one promoter did this on his website right after Sid no showed on him in 2005. I can imagine some promoters put so much on the line to make a show successful and when they have to "eat" the money they prepaid to talent or for airfare, rooms that can be a really awful thing to swallow.

Speaking of Sid abruptly cancelling/no showing *language warning*: youtu.be/S9gJxrzxYkI

[jason1980s]

I'll have to check it out on a computer with sounds.
This thread also reminds me of Ahmed Johnson backing out of a show, not sure if he was in town at all, because he didn't get a limo or something like that.

Also reminds me of Dan Mirade going off on Kamala because Kamala thought his show's donations were too low. I'm really only reminded of Kamala moreso of the "didn't make it to Mania" thread. I know he was at X-7 battle royal but during his main time as a performer he missed III and IX (barely)

[The Dark Order Inferno]

Airing that dirty laundry every time his name is mentioned reflects worse on Oliver than Konnan after a point. It's petty, jilted ex behaviour and destroyed any chance of the deal ever being honoured.

[pinja]

Konnan is a very ... fluid personality. He has both horrible takes and great takes that contradict each other, yet he seemingly believes in both. He greatly benefits from having Disco Inferno as his podcast partner, because it's almost impossible to look bad next to Disco Inferno.

[KAMALARAMBO: BOOMSHAKALAKA!!!]

Feb 5, 2023 4:54:21 GMT -5 pinja said:

Konnan is a very ... fluid personality. He has both horrible takes and great takes that contradict each other, yet he seemingly believes in both. He greatly benefits from having Disco Inferno as his podcast partner, because it's almost impossible to look bad next to Disco Inferno.

I tried listening to the podcast once or twice. I think it was just because Konnan had a hot take on something or claimed to have an inside scoop and I wanted to hear it in context.

It’s pretty bad. The only way Konnan benefits from it like you said is because Disco comes off so badly it’s tough not to look good by comparison. But it seems like Former WCW Low Midcarders: The Podcast when Konnan should really be above that.

Konnan probably had a bigger hand in shaping today’s international wrestling landscape than many would think to give him credit for. Not only by getting many wrestlers booked in the US, but also being among the first to bring various American moves and elements of ring psychology to a Mexican wrestling ring.

[jason1980s]

I forgot Konnan signed with WWF and they wound up paying for the elborate Max Moon costume. I imagine that cost a few thousand. Then he bolted and left them hanging with Paul Diamond who, while talented, couldn't really do anything with the gimmick and was made a jobber to the stars. So it seems like he has a track record of leaving people hanging and losing money.

[pinja]

Feb 5, 2023 10:02:45 GMT -5 KAMALARAMBO: BOOMSHAKALAKA!!! said:

Feb 5, 2023 4:54:21 GMT -5 pinja said:

Konnan is a very ... fluid personality. He has both horrible takes and great takes that contradict each other, yet he seemingly believes in both. He greatly benefits from having Disco Inferno as his podcast partner, because it's almost impossible to look bad next to Disco Inferno.

I tried listening to the podcast once or twice. I think it was just because Konnan had a hot take on something or claimed to have an inside scoop and I wanted to hear it in context.

It’s pretty bad. The only way Konnan benefits from it like you said is because Disco comes off so badly it’s tough not to look good by comparison. But it seems like Former WCW Low Midcarders: The Podcast when Konnan should really be above that.

Konnan probably had a bigger hand in shaping today’s international wrestling landscape than many would think to give him credit for. Not only by getting many wrestlers booked in the US, but also being among the first to bring various American moves and elements of ring psychology to a Mexican wrestling ring.

It would be so interesting for him to talk more or mostly about Lucha Libre as he was a bridge between Mexican and US-American wrestling. I wonder if it's because their core audience isn't interested in it, so they just focus on the stuff everyone else already talks about.

[tafkaga]

I can't say that I respected Konnan in the first place so no.

[Cyno]

I voted no, because you can't lose what you never had.

[tirtefaa]

Feb 5, 2023 10:09:35 GMT -5 jason1980s said:

I forgot Konnan signed with WWF and they wound up paying for the elborate Max Moon costume. I imagine that cost a few thousand. Then he bolted and left them hanging with Paul Diamond who, while talented, couldn't really do anything with the gimmick and was made a jobber to the stars. So it seems like he has a track record of leaving people hanging and losing money.

To be fair, the gimmick was DOA either way you look at it. The costume was so elaborate that it would've made it impossible to work in. To me, it was more ambitious than practical, especially in a business where you perform in front of a live crowd, so this isn't a situation where you can hide things like Robocop driving a car in his underwear because the costume is too big for the car.

At the end of the day, both sides of the business are going to carny. The talent want to get paid upfront so they don't get shortchanged later, and the promoters don't want to pay upfront for a job that hasn't happened yet.

It's as old as the business itself, and definitely not unique to Konnan.

[The Dark Order Inferno]

Feb 5, 2023 10:09:35 GMT -5 jason1980s said:

I forgot Konnan signed with WWF and they wound up paying for the elborate Max Moon costume. I imagine that cost a few thousand. Then he bolted and left them hanging with Paul Diamond who, while talented, couldn't really do anything with the gimmick and was made a jobber to the stars. So it seems like he has a track record of leaving people hanging and losing money.

Nobody could have made the gimmick work, the full costume weighed a tonne, needed 5-10 minutes and stagehands to get the space suit off every time he hit the ring and the whole thing was packed with D Cell batteries for all the heavy early 90s electronics. Konnan was expected to transport the thing with him from town to town as well, making the thing a logistical nightmare given how much they were on the road, and had to foot the bill themselves. There's a reason the only part of the Max Moon attire Paul Diamond really used was the ring gear, mask and the gauntlets.

The whole thing was poorly thought out and would have resulted in anyone playing it quitting, even in the reduced form that made TV, Paul Diamond didn't stick with it all that long.

[XaviersSS2015hair]

Hasn't Konnan had a reputation for being shady for a long time?


As far as his podcast goes I listened to one episode 4 or 5 years ago and decided to never try that again. What a directionless mess. Not sure if it was just the one episode I listened to but it was bad enough that I never wanted to give it a second shot. And I listen to a ton of (mostly wrestling) podcasts.

[XaviersSS2015hair]

Feb 4, 2023 20:20:22 GMT -5 booty2shoes said:

I don't know the specifics for the cancellation, but if Oliver had any hope of getting the deposit back, he should have kept the matter private instead of burying Konnan publicly about it during other interviews. Once he did that, I don't blame Konnan for not returning the deposit.

People that screw people out of money deserve to be put on blast. If nothing else as a PSA to other people not to do business with them.
A friend of a friend screwed me out of a couple hundred bucks. At first I was nice about it and kept the matter private, but once he ghosted me and it was clear I wasn't getting my money back I made sure to tell everybody that knew him that he was a scumbag that did bad business. Our mutual friend didn't listen and he ended up getting burned for some money by the same guy.
If you don't want your reputation soiled, don't be an asshole.

[DoubleDare]

He definitely is in the category of carney.
I respect him, but yea of course he's a carney.....its a carney business.

[Deleted]

I can’t think of many wrestlers I don’t put in the category of “carney wrestler.” It’s the nature of the business.

If I based my enjoyment on what I thought of the people behind the performances, I wouldn’t be able to watch ‘80s wrestling at all, and that’s not a life I want to lead.

[ThankGodForSidJustice]

Feb 5, 2023 17:01:24 GMT -5 The Dark Order Inferno said:

Feb 5, 2023 10:09:35 GMT -5 jason1980s said:

I forgot Konnan signed with WWF and they wound up paying for the elborate Max Moon costume. I imagine that cost a few thousand. Then he bolted and left them hanging with Paul Diamond who, while talented, couldn't really do anything with the gimmick and was made a jobber to the stars. So it seems like he has a track record of leaving people hanging and losing money.

Nobody could have made the gimmick work, the full costume weighed a tonne, needed 5-10 minutes and stagehands to get the space suit off every time he hit the ring and the whole thing weighed a tonne because it was packed with D Cell batteries for all the heavy early 90s electronics. Konnan was expected to transport the thing with him from town to town as well, making the thing a logistical nightmare given how much they were on the road, and had to foot the bill themselves. There's a reason the only part of the Max Moon attire Paul Diamond really used was the ring gear, mask and the gauntlets.

The whole thing was poorly thought out and would have resulted in anyone playing it quitting, even in the reduced form that made TV, Paul Diamond didn't stick with it all that long.

Well the reason Paul Diamond didn't stick with it that long had nothing to do with the gimmick and more the fact that he was banging Tatanka's wife. He got big heat with the locker room and Vince over it and it led to him being released. Don't get me wrong in that having an affair with another man's wife is not cool at all but Vince and the other wrestlers blackballing him over it seems super hypocritical.

[James Fabiano]

Feb 4, 2023 20:55:21 GMT -5 KAMALARAMBO: BOOMSHAKALAKA!!! said:

Feb 4, 2023 20:50:00 GMT -5 jason1980s said:

This may be what I immediately think of when I think of Konnan. I always thought it was an autograph signing he backed out of and the promoter was screwed on the money but maybe it was just Sean or perhaps someone else too. I am hoping and thinking Konnan changed. I know around the time I was thinking of he was in very ill health and awaiting a transplant. He did a show autograph show in 2011 and looked really bad.

I get Sean's frustration though and with probably little recourse all you have is to call the person out publicly. I know one promoter did this on his website right after Sid no showed on him in 2005. I can imagine some promoters put so much on the line to make a show successful and when they have to "eat" the money they prepaid to talent or for airfare, rooms that can be a really awful thing to swallow.

Speaking of Sid abruptly cancelling/no showing *language warning*: youtu.be/S9gJxrzxYkI

I was there for another instance of him no-showing. They brought out Jay Lethal to do a Sid imitation.

May have been the infamous puking Balls Mahoney show too.