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Post by Fade is a CodyCryBaby on Feb 18, 2023 12:58:28 GMT -5
They should have kept faux face MJF. It was a interesting character with a lot of potential for interesting stories. What is the story again with mjf now? He is a dick ,nothing new. Yeah, I consistently wonder if this is the direction they should have gone with. I still enjoy him but this program with Danielson has been lackluster
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Post by Cyno on Feb 18, 2023 13:01:46 GMT -5
I said it on the Rampage thread last night, but MJF feels like a tryhard as champion. Like compare to Swerve where he almost effortlessly comes off like such an evil bastard. MJF tells you how much of an asshole he is. Swerve just IS one.
MJF's greatest strength right now is his ability to play live crowds like a fiddle. But that doesn't necessarily make him a compelling character either.
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Post by Milkman Norm on Feb 18, 2023 13:06:29 GMT -5
I said it on the Rampage thread last night, but MJF feels like a tryhard as champion. Like compare to Swerve where he almost effortlessly comes off like such an evil bastard. MJF tells you how much of an asshole he is. Swerve just IS one. MJF's greatest strength right now is his ability to play live crowds like a fiddle. But that doesn't necessarily make him a compelling character either. I'm starting to doubt that. I think he was mad for real when the crowd wanted to chant along with him, because he felt like had done enough to get heat on himself and they still wanted to do the bit.
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Chiral
Salacious Crumb
Posts: 73,747
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Post by Chiral on Feb 18, 2023 13:42:27 GMT -5
My takes that I posted in other threads recently that I'm regurgitating here:
-I think MJF desperately wants to do the HHH/Jarrett reign of terror with all his actual overt references to them but without the owner/person of high authority booking themselves as the greatest smartest sexiest funniest champions of all time aspect those two had, there are times he goes for "actual shit TV on purpose to make you hate me" which does not land as well, and trying to replicate shitty TV for heel heat just kinda sucks lol like they didn't land well at all either they were infamous in the moment and somewhat fondly well thought of by some people sometimes...otherwise they generally tanked business IIRC. My theory is part of his negotiations to come back in summer included "I get my big heel HHH run as champion." I think MJF is smart and really clearly studies a lot of this for his act, but "bad on purpose redo of the reigns of terror over the years" feels like an idea that would work on a video game efed rather than on actual TV.
-The overarching story aint there: with Omega and the Elite, it got dragged out and there were big lulls in it but you always had a clear picture of where it was headed and that road map helped it feel more like a big story arc even at times where it wasn't. With MJF, there just isn't that, it's just he's really evil. If this is gonna be long term, MJF needs that clear face rising up to face him to give fans something to hope for in the back of their minds as MJF cuts promos about how he farted on his grade school teacher during a field trip which made him fall off a cliff into an orphanage that exploded or whatever.
-the 2015 Seth as champ after a year of being de facto champ as MITB holder problem where MJF is doing the same things he's always been doing just with the top belt now, he needs to move on from "let me pay a bunch of guys to go on a gauntlet" (though at least we're getting like 12 S-tier Bryan matches out of this gauntlet so I'll give this one a pass, but if he wins at Revolution and does another gauntlet deal for DoN I'm gonna scream)
-Swerve's doing the big evil heel stuff in an insanely fresher and more entertaining way, it's my personal bias but I really want Swerve in that big bad spot so seeing him kill it while MJF is treading water just has me like "OK let's speed this up to get to top villain Swerve please." Even Swerve's overall narrative is there so much more than MJF's with his storyline with Keith Lee having more story beats and character moments than like anything MJF has done so far as champion. Swerve talking with Kenny on his podcast about how the audience wants these big stories has me like "YES NOW YOU BE CHAMP AND TELL THOSE STORIES"
-Bryan's on fire so much right now that I'd just give him the belt at Revolution, and I think MJF could have some really interesting stuff as a like dream deferred villain when that dream being denied is being a shitty megaheel infinite world champ.
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Post by Cyno on Feb 18, 2023 14:18:54 GMT -5
I think now would be a good time to do a couple of shorter reigns (out of design, not necessity like with Punk getting injured forcing the issue). Bryan wins at Revolution, which forces MJF to realize his usual tactics don't work anymore and he has to adapt. Then he uses that to eventually win his second title. It leads to MJF getting much needed depth and Danielson gets to be AEW Champion. Win-win in my book.
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ghost
Don Corleone
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Post by ghost on Feb 18, 2023 14:43:19 GMT -5
I think the issue in this case is that no one buys Danielson beating MJF for the title. Maybe they end up doing the surprise ending and having Danielson win, but given how Khan has booked the world title (basically needing an injury in order to have shorter reigns), I don't think that's in the cards. So this feels like a drawn out filler feud and not even a compelling one. I think we all knew MJF/Wardlow was going to end in a Wardlow squash win but the journey there was compelling, and the squash ending actually made sense within the context of the story. In this case it's just waiting to see what should be a great match with a predictable outcome and nothing really changing after that. I totally agree that they should pivot and have Danielson win the title. Freshen things up a bit and give MJF more time as the chaser.
As far as MJF the character, I'm not really sure how you fix this. Long heel reigns are usually kind of boring in general, so if that's the direction they are planning right now, then it's hard to see what they could do to make it more entertaining. MJF as a tweener/face would have been a great deviation, I wish they kept him in that spot.
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coleslaw
Don Corleone
Steve Sniffs
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Post by coleslaw on Feb 18, 2023 14:48:49 GMT -5
-Swerve's doing the big evil heel stuff in an insanely fresher and more entertaining way, it's my personal bias but I really want Swerve in that big bad spot so seeing him kill it while MJF is treading water just has me like "OK let's speed this up to get to top villain Swerve please." Even Swerve's overall narrative is there so much more than MJF's with his storyline with Keith Lee having more story beats and character moments than like anything MJF has done so far as champion. Swerve talking with Kenny on his podcast about how the audience wants these big stories has me like "YES NOW YOU BE CHAMP AND TELL THOSE STORIES" Have they ever done an angle where one heel just simply "out-evils" another and takes the title from him? That'd put Swerve over pretty big.
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mystermystery
Dennis Stamp
Still in the White Hummer
Posts: 4,387
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Post by mystermystery on Feb 18, 2023 14:50:43 GMT -5
I wonder if things would be better if Regal didn't torpedo whatever plans they had involving him so he could go back to NXT to work with Triple H.
I'll admit that champ MJF has no appeal to me but I've never been particularly excited by him, even back in MLW where I first saw him.
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Allie Kitsune
Crow T. Robot
Always Feelin' Foxy.
Celestial Princess in Exile.
Posts: 46,149
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Post by Allie Kitsune on Feb 18, 2023 17:05:32 GMT -5
-Swerve's doing the big evil heel stuff in an insanely fresher and more entertaining way, it's my personal bias but I really want Swerve in that big bad spot so seeing him kill it while MJF is treading water just has me like "OK let's speed this up to get to top villain Swerve please." Even Swerve's overall narrative is there so much more than MJF's with his storyline with Keith Lee having more story beats and character moments than like anything MJF has done so far as champion. Swerve talking with Kenny on his podcast about how the audience wants these big stories has me like "YES NOW YOU BE CHAMP AND TELL THOSE STORIES" Have they ever done an angle where one heel just simply "out-evils" another and takes the title from him? That'd put Swerve over pretty big. I've been wanting to see a feud like that for a LOOOOOONG time. That said, Bryan's "boogeyman" promo sold me on him getting the belt, so I think Bryan should get it at Revolution.
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XIII
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
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Post by XIII on Feb 18, 2023 17:09:47 GMT -5
MJF has long been overrated(for me at lest) He's just a dude working a gimmick that's been done a billion times already(and often better), he's not bad in ring but he's not anything special either. He's a super tryhard edgelord. Dude does nothing for me and I've never understood the love that he gets sometimes.
Give me Swerve every day of the week over this dude.
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chrom
Backup Wench
Master of the rare undecuple post
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Post by chrom on Feb 18, 2023 17:27:50 GMT -5
MJF has long been overrated(for me at lest) He's just a dude working a gimmick that's been done a billion times already(and often better), he's not bad in ring but he's not anything special either. He's a super tryhard edgelord. Dude does nothing for me and I've never understood the love that he gets sometimes. Give me Swerve every day of the week over this dude. His gimmick comes off as a poor man's Ted Dibiase and his promos are a poor man's Rick Rude.
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Post by xxshoyuweeniexx on Feb 18, 2023 17:59:14 GMT -5
As much as I still like the dude, I hope if he beats Bryan that he:
-Stops the gauntlet shit, it's becoming a tired excuse to just to have matches so Tony can be be like 'yep that's 1/4th of the show done'
-Gets a character motivation and stick to it
-Stops just going for low hanging fruit literally every week. He's better than 'your local sports team sucks' and somebody needs to tell him that
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thirteen3
Dennis Stamp
posted with a broken freakin neck keyboard
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Member is Online
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Post by thirteen3 on Feb 18, 2023 18:01:56 GMT -5
As much as I still like the dude, I hope if he beats Bryan that he: -Stops the gauntlet shit, it's becoming a tired excuse to just to have matches so Tony can be be like 'yep that's 1/4th of the show done' -Gets a character motivation and stick to it - Stops just going for low hanging fruit literally every week. He's better than 'your local sports team sucks' and somebody needs to tell him thatBut that makes him such an effective heel, because it's.... mmmmmeeetaaa *farts in glass and sniffs*
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Post by Sponsored by Groose Wipes on Feb 18, 2023 18:06:29 GMT -5
MJF it's 4PM, time for your 6th angle where your feud is doing a gauntlet to get to you.
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Venti
Unicron
Posts: 3,000
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Post by Venti on Feb 18, 2023 18:12:18 GMT -5
I feel like they've been planning a long reign, but honestly if I were TK I'd just call an audible and put the title on Danielson.
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Post by Some Guy on Feb 18, 2023 18:24:51 GMT -5
-Swerve's doing the big evil heel stuff in an insanely fresher and more entertaining way, it's my personal bias but I really want Swerve in that big bad spot so seeing him kill it while MJF is treading water just has me like "OK let's speed this up to get to top villain Swerve please." Even Swerve's overall narrative is there so much more than MJF's with his storyline with Keith Lee having more story beats and character moments than like anything MJF has done so far as champion. Swerve talking with Kenny on his podcast about how the audience wants these big stories has me like "YES NOW YOU BE CHAMP AND TELL THOSE STORIES" Have they ever done an angle where one heel just simply "out-evils" another and takes the title from him? That'd put Swerve over pretty big. A moment where they have MJF pay Trench/Parker Boudreaux to help him instead but in the title match both help Swerve win anyways would be a good way to speak to both MJF's flaws as a character where a heel with actual loyalty/evilness can beat him since MJF has been repeatedly shitty to every person in his life. But I don't see them pulling that off really.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2023 18:28:35 GMT -5
-Swerve's doing the big evil heel stuff in an insanely fresher and more entertaining way, it's my personal bias but I really want Swerve in that big bad spot so seeing him kill it while MJF is treading water just has me like "OK let's speed this up to get to top villain Swerve please." Even Swerve's overall narrative is there so much more than MJF's with his storyline with Keith Lee having more story beats and character moments than like anything MJF has done so far as champion. Swerve talking with Kenny on his podcast about how the audience wants these big stories has me like "YES NOW YOU BE CHAMP AND TELL THOSE STORIES" Have they ever done an angle where one heel just simply "out-evils" another and takes the title from him? That'd put Swerve over pretty big. i would absolutely f***ing love it if there was an angle like that
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Feb 18, 2023 18:44:07 GMT -5
I think it’s possible they might have over-estimated how much juice remains in the top heel MJF orange without a notable character shift. I mean, he hasn’t had the belt relatively long, but he’s been in a similar position on the card playing this role since day one of the company... which, by the by, is just over four years now. And that’s not to say he shouldn’t be. Dude is immensely talented. But very few wrestlers that have weekly television exposure get to this three, four, five year area in a specific phase of their persona and don’t start to get stale on some level without at least an alignment shift. And what sucks is that he’s probably got a great babyface run in him, but it doesn’t seem like something he’s interested in doing. Same thing happened with Seth Rollin's first title reign. He was already the top heel of the show and basically the defacto champion for like a year and a half before he won the title.
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Post by Cyno on Feb 18, 2023 19:00:26 GMT -5
Have they ever done an angle where one heel just simply "out-evils" another and takes the title from him? That'd put Swerve over pretty big. A moment where they have MJF pay Trench/Parker Boudreaux to help him instead but in the title match both help Swerve win anyways would be a good way to speak to both MJF's flaws as a character where a heel with actual loyalty/evilness can beat him since MJF has been repeatedly shitty to every person in his life. But I don't see them pulling that off really. Now you're giving me a cool visual of Parker taking the money, absolutely bodying MJF, then he gives the money to Swerve and he makes it rain over MJF's limp body. Now I'm sad that will probably never happen.
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Allie Kitsune
Crow T. Robot
Always Feelin' Foxy.
Celestial Princess in Exile.
Posts: 46,149
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Post by Allie Kitsune on Feb 18, 2023 19:19:03 GMT -5
Have they ever done an angle where one heel just simply "out-evils" another and takes the title from him? That'd put Swerve over pretty big. i would absolutely f***ing love it if there was an angle like that "I'm the biggest bastard!" "NO, I AM!"
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