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Post by Cry Me a Wiggle on Mar 2, 2023 23:04:26 GMT -5
Raven had his legs cut out from underneath him, but he was absolutely over in WCW. I’d argue that in 1998 he was right up there with DDP as a future main eventer.
But Bischoff always had trouble seeing the hotness of his own acts, probably because of his tunnel vision in transferring the heat of the nWo and Hogan to the rest of the card. Jericho is the go-to example, but only because the WWF did something with him. Raven was booked better in WCW but was still grossly mishandled.
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Andee9001
Samurai Cop
Posts: 2,246
Member is Online
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Post by Andee9001 on Mar 3, 2023 2:21:04 GMT -5
Eric Bischoff is full of it. That's really it.
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Post by Non Banjoble Tokens on Mar 3, 2023 3:37:38 GMT -5
Bobby Heenan saw him and was like, "Who the f*** hired Johnny Polo?"
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lucas_lee
Hank Scorpio
Heel turn is finished, now stripping away my personality
Posts: 6,706
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Post by lucas_lee on Mar 3, 2023 4:59:12 GMT -5
Funny that he let someone who apparently wasn't over on the cover of their most successful videogame. To be fair it wasn't Bischoff or any of the higher ups who signed for that. A person making the game and doing the cover shoot was a massive fan of Raven and the Flock
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wgdj
AC Slater
Posts: 187
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Post by wgdj on Mar 3, 2023 10:40:28 GMT -5
Eric talks a LOT without really saying anything.
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Post by The Dark Order Inferno on Mar 3, 2023 10:45:34 GMT -5
This is the eye for talent and creative mind that, when ratings dropped in 98, kept with the main event scene that wasn't working, gave Hogan and Nash more power and hollowed out the mid card. Rick Steiner, Kenny Kaos and Evan Karagias were just as good as Chris Jericho, Raven et al in his mind.
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Sephiroth
Wade Wilson
Surviving
Posts: 28,925
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Post by Sephiroth on Mar 3, 2023 11:01:21 GMT -5
Raven had his legs cut out from underneath him, but he was absolutely over in WCW. I’d argue that in 1998 he was right up there with DDP as a future main eventer. But Bischoff always had trouble seeing the hotness of his own acts, probably because of his tunnel vision in transferring the heat of the nWo and Hogan to the rest of the card. Jericho is the go-to example, but only because the WWF did something with him. Raven was booked better in WCW but was still grossly mishandled. I compare Raven then to Sheamus today or to Jeff Jarrett for his entire career; more than good enough in the ring and on the mic to be a main eventer but never over enough to be THE main eventer. I couldn’t see him as WCW champion, but in an alternate timeline where Sting wins the title from Hogan and the NWO starts winding down in 98, Raven would have been ideal as a title challenger to Sting while Goldberg was still getting built up to be the next top draw.
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tafkaga
Samurai Cop
the Dogfather
Posts: 2,115
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Post by tafkaga on Mar 3, 2023 12:43:38 GMT -5
Raven had his legs cut out from underneath him, but he was absolutely over in WCW. I’d argue that in 1998 he was right up there with DDP as a future main eventer. But Bischoff always had trouble seeing the hotness of his own acts, probably because of his tunnel vision in transferring the heat of the nWo and Hogan to the rest of the card. Jericho is the go-to example, but only because the WWF did something with him. Raven was booked better in WCW but was still grossly mishandled. I compare Raven then to Sheamus today or to Jeff Jarrett for his entire career; more than good enough in the ring snd on the mic to be a main eventer but never over enough to be THE main eventer. I couldn’t see him as WCW champion, but in an alternate timeline where Sting wins the title from Hogan and the NWO starts wu ding Django in 98, Raven would have been ideal as a title challenger to Sting while Goldberg was still getting built up to be the next top draw. Raven as champion is kind of a waste of the championship imo. He's one of those versatile acts that could be booked with just about anybody and be a top attraction. Putting a title on him might work from a storyline perspective but he certainly didn't need one to get over.
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Gunhaver
Bubba Ho-Tep
"Gunhaver! You actually have a gun!"
Posts: 645
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Post by Gunhaver on Mar 3, 2023 13:26:24 GMT -5
I bet that Eric is still butt hurt about Raven calling his bluff and walking out of WCW when Eric said if anyone wants to leave they can. Wtf I suddenly love raven now
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2023 14:10:11 GMT -5
Here's the thing I've had to learn about Bischoff:
His involvement in the pro wrestling industry was impactful, but pretty damned short, and he just says shit to seem controversial to keep people listening to him and buying his books or whatever.
Just to put it on a timeline, Bisch was only in charge of WCW from 1994-1999, which pretty much means that by the end of 2024 TONY KHAN will have surpassed Eric in terms of years spent being in charge of a major wrestling company.
On top of that, he wasn't the owner as much as he was just the manager of things, appointed to that position by the actual real power in Turner at that time, Ted Turner. The same Ted Turner who, I'm sure, didn't just give Eric Bischoff a blank check and say "Go crazy, kid", but undoubtedly gave him a very generous budget to get guys like Hogan and Savage who were available at the time.
and I'm not here to say that Eric doesn't deserve credit, because if money were everything TNA wouldn't have been a joke for years, just that he beat Vince and the WWE in ratings with the help of stars Vince already made and a very, very generous budget provided by the owner of the network.
So, in short, take his opinion with a grain of salt and recognize bullshit when you see it.
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Post by Pgarodactyl on Mar 3, 2023 14:13:01 GMT -5
Things like this make it really hard to take anything Bischoff has to say with much more than a grain of salt.
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Magnus the Magnificent
King Koopa
didn't want one.
I could write a book about what you don't know!
Posts: 12,466
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Post by Magnus the Magnificent on Mar 3, 2023 15:57:45 GMT -5
Raven had his legs cut out from underneath him, but he was absolutely over in WCW. I’d argue that in 1998 he was right up there with DDP as a future main eventer. But Bischoff always had trouble seeing the hotness of his own acts, probably because of his tunnel vision in transferring the heat of the nWo and Hogan to the rest of the card. Jericho is the go-to example, but only because the WWF did something with him. Raven was booked better in WCW but was still grossly mishandled. I compare Raven then to Sheamus today or to Jeff Jarrett for his entire career; more than good enough in the ring snd on the mic to be a main eventer but never over enough to be THE main eventer. I couldn’t see him as WCW champion, but in an alternate timeline where Sting wins the title from Hogan and the NWO starts wu ding Django in 98, Raven would have been ideal as a title challenger to Sting while Goldberg was still getting built up to be the next top draw. Ok, so I'm pre-ee-tty sure there is some autofill/correct going on here, but, huh?, Whut!?
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Post by Tiger Millionaire on Mar 3, 2023 18:57:40 GMT -5
Nobody was over, except Hogan.
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Post by Hypnosis on Mar 3, 2023 18:59:43 GMT -5
I compare Raven then to Sheamus today or to Jeff Jarrett for his entire career; more than good enough in the ring snd on the mic to be a main eventer but never over enough to be THE main eventer. I couldn’t see him as WCW champion, but in an alternate timeline where Sting wins the title from Hogan and the NWO starts wu ding Django in 98, Raven would have been ideal as a title challenger to Sting while Goldberg was still getting built up to be the next top draw. Ok, so I'm pre-ee-tty sure there is some autofill/correct going on here, but, huh?, Whut!? Sephiroth has made some interesting typos over the years here.
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Post by Brandon Walsh is Insane. on Mar 4, 2023 12:01:44 GMT -5
Probably expected him to be a main event draw , so in that aspect, he wasn’t over.
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Post by Magic knows Black Lives Matter on Mar 4, 2023 14:40:35 GMT -5
Bischoff’s full of shit on a lot of stuff, lol. Even as a podcast listener, I’ve learned to just roll my eyes at certain stuff and take it with a grain of salt.
Coincidentally, all of the failures Bischoff is associated with, actually wasn’t his fault! Astounding when you can tell your own story with nobody but a passive Conrad to g-check you
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Post by The Dark Order Inferno on Mar 4, 2023 15:27:54 GMT -5
Probably expected him to be a main event draw , so in that aspect, he wasn’t over. Did he though? WCW weren't subtle about guys they had big plans for, and guys they weren't. Raven was booked to get over the Andrew Ridgely of The American males, used as a means put the US belt on Goldberg and never escaped the midcard holding pattern, with the closest he got to a main event spot the cover of a videogame that was unrelated to the company's booking. I liked the work he did on WCW, the comedy he did with Kanyon made me a big fan of both, but nothing about that booking made me believe he was ever planned to be anything more than a midcard act. I'd say most likely someone told Bischoff that Raven thinks he's full of poop and that's why he's retconned into the 'guys who were never over' category by Mr. Paperskin, just like Bret, when in reality he's just one of the many talents Bischoff squandered and will never, ever admit to misusing.
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Post by kingoftheindies on Mar 5, 2023 9:38:37 GMT -5
I enjoy Eric's podcasts and there actually is a lot of insightful and interesting takes, but I've also learned that most of those come from his early WCW run until about 97, and also his TNA run. Him talking talent and creative from 97 to 99 is a lot of BS (though backstage stuff is interesting). His 2000 talk is entertaining for dunking on Russo but there's not a lot of info.
As for Raven? I think he was insanely over when he debuted, was kind of there until Saturn's face turn (which going back and watching it was one of the 3 hottest feuds in WCW at the time) and then he lost all momentum but that's a lot on creative as he went in one year from feuding with a top guy in DDP to being a spoiled rich kid
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Post by Can you afford to pay me, Gah on Mar 5, 2023 11:58:59 GMT -5
Raven wasn't over yet was in featured matches all the time with one of your top faces in DDP. Featured not once but Twice on video game covers. NWO vs WCW Revenge and WCW Nitro PC game (Which was Thunder under Nitro colors). Bischoff spreading lies again I see.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2023 15:22:00 GMT -5
Bischoff’s full of shit on a lot of stuff, lol. Even as a podcast listener, I’ve learned to just roll my eyes at certain stuff and take it with a grain of salt. Coincidentally, all of the failures Bischoff is associated with, actually wasn’t his fault! Astounding when you can tell your own story with nobody but a passive Conrad to g-check you
Ironically, the only time I remember Conrad absolutely losing his shit on Bischoff is the only time I'll defend Bischoff.
Sting didn't get a longer run with the belt because despite the fact that the story was built around Sting to be the one to do it and they HAD to pull the trigger, Steve Borden was in rough shape and dealing with the cliched "wrestling demons". Sting himself would tell you this.
Eric was at least just trying to be polite about it and not just say "Yeah, Sting was too f***ed up to be considered dependable so we did what we did."
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