tafkaga
Samurai Cop
the Dogfather
Posts: 2,115
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Post by tafkaga on Mar 2, 2023 12:24:23 GMT -5
I recently heard Bischoff telling Conrad that he didn't understand the hype around Raven before he came into WCW, but because he was open to being wrong, he gave Raven ample opportunity to get over, but that ultimately Raven's act didn't get over. I'm confused by this on a couple levels.
1) It seemed to me that Raven and his Flock did get over and was one of WCW's top acts for a while, and one of the few successful things they pushed in the late 90's that was not connected with the nWo.
2) Why would Bischoff say Raven didn't get over, if in fact, it was largely due to his handling of Raven that he got over? He could have easily said "Yeah, I wasn't sure about Raven, but I decided to roll the dice on him and it turned out really well." Is Eric's memory just failing him here?
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FinalGwen
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Particularly fond of muffins.
Posts: 16,432
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Post by FinalGwen on Mar 2, 2023 12:27:00 GMT -5
Funny that he let someone who apparently wasn't over on the cover of their most successful videogame.
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XIII
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Posts: 18,523
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Post by XIII on Mar 2, 2023 12:28:41 GMT -5
LOL Raven was really over during his Flock days. Bischoff is so weird in that sometimes he has a really good memory and take on things and sometimes he talks complete bullshit.
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Post by cassonova on Mar 2, 2023 13:11:07 GMT -5
Big Show told a story similar when negotiating an extension. Show asked for a raise, Bischoff told him he wasn't a draw. Show was the WCW champion during negotiations.
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tafkaga
Samurai Cop
the Dogfather
Posts: 2,115
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Post by tafkaga on Mar 2, 2023 13:26:05 GMT -5
LOL Raven was really over during his Flock days. Bischoff is so weird in that sometimes he has a really good memory and take on things and sometimes he talks complete bullshit. Yeah but this is not far from him saying "Yeah, I was skeptical about that nWo thing, but I tried it and it just didn't get over". Eric, it was successful and you deserve a lot of the credit for its success, so why would you shit on it? Unless the Eric we know got swapped with some cross-dimensional doppelganger from Bizarro world.
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Post by Natural Born Farmer on Mar 2, 2023 13:45:02 GMT -5
In a larger sense, does it make sense for any booker to hire a performer they don't understand?
"I don't like it, but other people seem to, so I guess I'll try and book it" sounds like a recipe for disaster.
It'd be like McMahon-era WWE hiring Orange Cassidy or Danhausen.
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Post by TOK Hehe'd Around & Found Out on Mar 2, 2023 13:56:34 GMT -5
In a larger sense, does it make sense for any booker to hire a performer they don't understand? "I don't like it, but other people seem to, so I guess I'll try and book it" sounds like a recipe for disaster. It'd be like McMahon-era WWE hiring Orange Cassidy or Danhausen. HHH has talked about this before, he didn't understand the appeal of a few NXT acts (Blue Pants and the Vaudevillians being the two that come to mind) but he understood they were over and let them do their thing.
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Post by Dr. Bolty, Disaster Enby on Mar 2, 2023 14:10:56 GMT -5
2) Why would Bischoff say Raven didn't get over, if in fact, it was largely due to his handling of Raven that he got over? He could have easily said "Yeah, I wasn't sure about Raven, but I decided to roll the dice on him and it turned out really well." Is Eric's memory just failing him here? This is a really fascinating question. Bischoff could have even gone for a back-handed compliment, like "They were over as a midcard act and that was a good spot for them." That's an answer that makes him sound like the smart guy in the room, too, so it doesn't even feel like it's an ego trip - unless, of course, it's tied into whatever he had to say or internalize to justify keeping Raven in that spot.
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Aceorton
El Dandy
Posts: 7,533
Member is Online
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Post by Aceorton on Mar 2, 2023 14:21:30 GMT -5
In a larger sense, does it make sense for any booker to hire a performer they don't understand? "I don't like it, but other people seem to, so I guess I'll try and book it" sounds like a recipe for disaster. It'd be like McMahon-era WWE hiring Orange Cassidy or Danhausen. Or Taz. Or DDP. Or Kanyon. Or Billy Kidman. Or, since we're on the subject, Raven.
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Post by chronocross on Mar 2, 2023 14:31:50 GMT -5
I know Raven didn't like his time there but as a viewer they made him feel like a big deal in WCW.
From his debut on Nitro to having his own "Raven's Rules" matches, he was prominently featured each week as opposed to his WWF run where he was an afterthought after his debut.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Mar 2, 2023 14:59:09 GMT -5
If only he knew someone who could have featured Raven.
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Post by Confused Mark Wahlberg on Mar 2, 2023 15:37:07 GMT -5
Well, this guy thought he was over Doug Dillinger was picking his nose or something
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Post by ANuclearError on Mar 2, 2023 15:40:53 GMT -5
In a larger sense, does it make sense for any booker to hire a performer they don't understand? "I don't like it, but other people seem to, so I guess I'll try and book it" sounds like a recipe for disaster. It'd be like McMahon-era WWE hiring Orange Cassidy or Danhausen. It comes down to trust really. If you're a booker who's able to go "Alright, I trust you guys to do you're thing, here's what I need from you and I'll let yous handle it the way you wanna", then your personal feelings shouldn't get in the way, especially if you have quantitive data on merch sales or the like.
If you're the type who likes to micromanage and tell them exactly what to say or do, then you're gonna run into problems.
Feels like this applies to any sort of management, not just wrestling, to me.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2023 16:17:44 GMT -5
In a larger sense, does it make sense for any booker to hire a performer they don't understand? "I don't like it, but other people seem to, so I guess I'll try and book it" sounds like a recipe for disaster. It'd be like McMahon-era WWE hiring Orange Cassidy or Danhausen.
End of the day, the end goal is to make money.
I don't have to GET it, but if it's making the audience want to tune in to my show I should do my level best to harness it and not change it too heavily within reason. That's the part that post-2001 or so Vince kinda sucks at, at least in my opinion.
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Post by Main Eventer on Mar 2, 2023 16:19:32 GMT -5
I bet that Eric is still butt hurt about Raven calling his bluff and walking out of WCW when Eric said if anyone wants to leave they can.
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Zutroy
Don Corleone
That's preposterous. Zutroy here is as American as apple pie.
Posts: 1,933
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Post by Zutroy on Mar 2, 2023 16:48:03 GMT -5
I feel like Bischoff just makes stuff up sometimes to sound “controversial” since that’s all he’s got going for him these days. Raven was over.
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Sephiroth
Wade Wilson
Surviving
Posts: 28,925
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Post by Sephiroth on Mar 2, 2023 16:49:12 GMT -5
Nowhere near as much as he was in ECW, but he was absolutely over. Without the NWO, Raven would have been in and out of the main event. Him challenging Crow Sting, or DDP for the belt would have been a ppv main event.
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tirtefaa
Unicron
If you wanna know the truth, you gotta dig up Johnny Booth.
Posts: 2,833
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Post by tirtefaa on Mar 2, 2023 19:44:53 GMT -5
"I don't like it, but other people seem to, so I guess I'll try and book it" sounds like a recipe for disaster. I'll take that over the Verne Gagne approach of "I don't understand it. I don't like it. I'm going to continue to keep doing the exact same things I've been doing."
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Post by Cyno on Mar 2, 2023 20:03:01 GMT -5
Bischoff says a lot of things.
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Cranjis McBasketball
Crow T. Robot
Knew what the hell that thing was supposed to be
Peace Love and Nothing But
Posts: 41,929
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Post by Cranjis McBasketball on Mar 2, 2023 22:53:56 GMT -5
He also said Bret Hart was never a draw. His next sentence is usually he hired Bret because he needed proven draws for Thunder.
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