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Post by Lance Uppercut on Apr 25, 2023 23:59:13 GMT -5
this technically two questions and I'd like to hear answers for either. 1. Do you ever play a game, get stuck and feel guilty that you had to look up a hint online? Especially having to watch a youtube gameplay to see how someone else got out of that situation? 2. Have you ever played a game, got stuck and when you found the solution, you go "how the hell was anyone supposed to figure that out without help?" I'm playing Legend of Zelda: Oracle of Ages for the first time and.... currently I'm in Dungeon 5 (dancing dragon). I'm pretty much near the end but this one section where I have to drag this metal ball with the magnet glove had me stuck. I spend an hour or so just wandering the same 4 rooms trying to figure out what I missed. I looked online and it turns out I had to push the ball off screen where you can see anything, and go to another room several rooms away and somehow it'll just be sitting there despite there being a closed door where it should have passed through". I'm like what? How was I supposed to know that? you can't see where the ball goes when you push it off screen and you can pull it back on screen so it's not like it fell down a hole or threw a door. going back to question one, I'm like "damn I had to cheat for this 30 year old game boy advanced game? man I feel so bad for some reason". I paid for it since I was able to nab it before the 3ds closure, so it feels like I have to savor the gameplay earn it when beat this game.
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Post by Sponsored by Groose Wipes on Apr 26, 2023 0:19:54 GMT -5
I use online hints as a "if all else fails" kind of way. It's way more rewarding figuring out yourself but there's a line where you just want to be done with it. But I don't feel like I cheated the game. I think it's ok to look up and ask for hints. Rather enjoy the game than not know what to do and get frustrated with it.
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Post by Cyno on Apr 26, 2023 0:23:54 GMT -5
1. Nope. Never felt guilty about it. Some stuff is just really esoteric and I'd continue advancing a game, especially if it's a story-heavy one where I'm mostly playing for the plot and character interactions.
MMORPG's are another beast entirely because unless you're on the bleeding edge of content completion, you're expected to be prepared for fights for endgame dungeons and raids beforehand, including watching videos, having addons to point out mechanics (if the game supports them), etc. Because if you screw up, you're not only holding back your own progression in the game, but other peoples' too.
2. Some games have some in-game puzzles that are really out there with their solutions. Or my brain just doesn't pick up on something. And then you have some games that are infamous about hiding things in really obscure ways that I can't see anyone picking up without consulting some guide or being extremely lucky. Like getting Valkyrie Profile's A Ending or some of the older Tales' games "blink and you miss them" sidequests.
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wakko
Samurai Cop
Knows This
BAAAGH!!!!
Posts: 2,212
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Post by wakko on Apr 26, 2023 0:26:46 GMT -5
Sierra adventure games from the late 80s & early 90s are full of those "how was anyone supposed to figure that out" puzzles. Being a young kid trying to play Kings Quest or Space Quest was sometimes a pain.
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Scoops
ALF
Potato Clown
Posts: 1,125
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Post by Scoops on Apr 26, 2023 1:40:57 GMT -5
I only feel guilty if I'm overall enjoying the game, but yeah, I do. I think my reasoning is that if the internet didn't exist and I was in the past I would be f***ed, which makes me feel kind of dumb unless it's a puzzle in that number 2 category.
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Apr 26, 2023 2:34:31 GMT -5
Sierra adventure games from the late 80s & early 90s are full of those "how was anyone supposed to figure that out" puzzles. Being a young kid trying to play Kings Quest or Space Quest was sometimes a pain. What sometimes it's good to think backwards isn't good enough a hint for you to understand the guys name was Ifnkvohgroghprm?!
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Mozenrath
FANatic
Foppery and Whim
Speedy Speed Boy
Posts: 121,125
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Post by Mozenrath on Apr 26, 2023 2:36:59 GMT -5
Sierra adventure games from the late 80s & early 90s are full of those "how was anyone supposed to figure that out" puzzles. Being a young kid trying to play Kings Quest or Space Quest was sometimes a pain. Yeah, Roberta Williams enjoyed those kinds of things because she found it really satisfying to find herself at a brick wall and to finally solve it. LucasArts, for their adventure games, disliked those sorts of puzzles and especially unwinnable states, and avoided them whenever possible. I definitely am more in the latter camp, but I get it, as a kid, I'm sure some people felt so clever when they figured out a tough puzzle.
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Apr 26, 2023 2:47:42 GMT -5
Sierra adventure games from the late 80s & early 90s are full of those "how was anyone supposed to figure that out" puzzles. Being a young kid trying to play Kings Quest or Space Quest was sometimes a pain. Yeah, Roberta Williams enjoyed those kinds of things because she found it really satisfying to find herself at a brick wall and to finally solve it. LucasArts, for their adventure games, disliked those sorts of puzzles and especially unwinnable states, and avoided them whenever possible. I definitely am more in the latter camp, but I get it, as a kid, I'm sure some people felt so clever when they figured out a tough puzzle. What's funny is Ron Gilbert especially hated one thing from... I Want to say one of the space quests... where you can cut yourself on broken glass and die. It's mentioned in Maniac Mansion (You can't pick that broken bottle up you might bleed out! or something to that affect... and later still in Thimbleweed Park there's a line like "Gee I'm glad this isn't one of those adventure games... otherwise something stupid might happen where I'd die from picking up this broken glass") the fact that he was still SO mad about it that many years later is funny as hell to me.
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tirtefaa
Unicron
If you wanna know the truth, you gotta dig up Johnny Booth.
Posts: 2,865
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Post by tirtefaa on Apr 26, 2023 4:05:46 GMT -5
As far as the first question goes, no. Back before there was the ability to look online, you had a network of friends, and one of which would somehow know the answer. Trying to find stuff out on my own was always the standard, however I remember renting Super Mario RPG and could not figure out the Sunken Ship password. Even though we had the internet, it still didn't register to look online, and we ended up renting it like 3 times, before it came up in a conversation with a friend, who knew the answer. When I asked him how he figured it out, he said he looked online. Despite this, I still didn't look things up until I bought Silent Hill. I could not figure out how to get through the school. Nowadays, I'll try my best to do something myself, but since my time is more limited than it was when I was a kid, I've gotten to the point where if it takes me more than 20 minutes, I'm going to look at what I'm doing wrong. lucasArts, for their adventure games, disliked those sorts of puzzles and especially unwinnable states, and avoided them whenever possible. Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade The Graphic Adventure was very annoying. The game is fine, but once you get to the Catacombs in Venice, it's almost impossible to figure out what to use or if you even went into the right chamber. Fail just twice and Indy goes to jail. One of the few games I never finished.
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Post by Hurbster on Apr 26, 2023 4:35:30 GMT -5
I used to have a hard rule against it back in the day, then I played Discworld...
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Post by The Summer of Muskrat XVII on Apr 26, 2023 5:13:02 GMT -5
I was a Nintendo Power kid, and have using GameFaqs since 1999. I have zero qualms with getting help, and the older I get the quicker I am to turn to a walkthrough. I don’t have time to spend hours stuck on one puzzle
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Post by Gerard Gerard on Apr 26, 2023 5:24:27 GMT -5
Nope — Time is precious, don't have the space to guess what a bunch of nerds huffing glue thought would pass as logic.
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Allie Kitsune
Crow T. Robot
Always Feelin' Foxy.
HaHa U FaLL 4 LaVa TriK
Posts: 46,162
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Post by Allie Kitsune on Apr 26, 2023 7:04:53 GMT -5
Sometimes. I do feel like I'm supposed to play every game "blind" (if someone has a better term for this, feel free to suggest, preferably politely), and figure everything out without any help, but sometimes I wish that wasn't the case.
I especially struggle with this in Shining in the Darkness in particular, where I dread the idea of having to make my own map on graph paper (how am I supposed to even know where on the paper to start to make sure it all fits on one sheet?).
But using someone else's feels like I'm cheating.
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Bo Rida
Fry's dog Seymour
Pulled one over on everyone. Got away with it, this time.
Posts: 23,587
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Post by Bo Rida on Apr 26, 2023 7:25:44 GMT -5
I love the Gameboy Zelda games but have no guilt about "cheating".
However it's really annoying when I look something up and realised I should have been able to work it out. It can be hard to determine if it's bad design or bad puzzle solving, as a general rule though retro games are more likely to be the former.
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Push R Truth
Patti Mayonnaise
Unique and Special Snowflake, and a pants-less heathen.
Perpetually Constipated
Posts: 39,294
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Post by Push R Truth on Apr 26, 2023 7:56:31 GMT -5
I witnessed something about a month ago. I had two nephews at my house (11 and 13) for a week (babysitting) and they started to play Ocarina of Time for the first time ever. They had tons of fun and wanted to get everything. They got 100% stuck for an entire day at the Zora's Domain Stone as Kid Link. I couldn't figure out why for the longest time how you could miss it. OOT was a great game but it wasn't hard... right?
Well, what happened is that in Zora's Domain in order to progress you need to notice something that isn't exactly obvious. So the King is like "Boo hoo I can't find Ruto!" And my nephews then were like, "oh there's this diving game over here. Maybe that will help." So you do the diving game and boom, you get the Silver Scale to let you dive. Well, my nephews thought the reward of the scale was that the diving game was now extra easy and you can get tons of rupees for free. They never noticed the small hole in the bottom of the pond that you need to enter to progress the game. They thought they bugged the game and got stuck because they found no references to looking for that hole. And it's a mechanic you haven't encountered yet in the game.
Just kinda interesting to see something that you assumed was "common knowledge" but it's super easy to miss for a "virgin gamer".
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Apr 26, 2023 8:15:21 GMT -5
I witnessed something about a month ago. I had two nephews at my house (11 and 13) for a week (babysitting) and they started to play Ocarina of Time for the first time ever. They had tons of fun and wanted to get everything. They got 100% stuck for an entire day at the Zora's Domain Stone as Kid Link. I couldn't figure out why for the longest time how you could miss it. OOT was a great game but it wasn't hard... right? Well, what happened is that in Zora's Domain in order to progress you need to notice something that isn't exactly obvious. So the King is like "Boo hoo I can't find Ruto!" And my nephews then were like, "oh there's this diving game over here. Maybe that will help." So you do the diving game and boom, you get the Silver Scale to let you dive. Well, my nephews thought the reward of the scale was that the diving game was now extra easy and you can get tons of rupees for free. They never noticed the small hole in the bottom of the pond that you need to enter to progress the game. They thought they bugged the game and got stuck because they found no references to looking for that hole. And it's a mechanic you haven't encountered yet in the game. Just kinda interesting to see something that you assumed was "common knowledge" but it's super easy to miss for a "virgin gamer". Playing a lot of newer games... it is the type of thing they would likely hold your hand through with a tutorial. Which is just kinda what they do now since games are so complex it's hard to do a game that teaches you how to play through playing.
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Dr. T is an alien
Patti Mayonnaise
Knows when to hold them, knows when to fold them
I've been found out!
Posts: 31,366
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Post by Dr. T is an alien on Apr 26, 2023 9:19:20 GMT -5
Sierra adventure games from the late 80s & early 90s are full of those "how was anyone supposed to figure that out" puzzles. Being a young kid trying to play Kings Quest or Space Quest was sometimes a pain. Since getting it wrong usually yielded instant results (outside of not saving that smurfing mouse from the cat), you usually got to quickly learn and retry it. I’ve been exploring Dark Souls without worrying too much about a guide. I’ve occasionally looked stuff up to ensure I haven’t missed anything before I leave an area or if I strongly suspect that there are basilisks nearby (hate those so much). I’ll also watch let’s plays, but only of areas I’m certain that I’ve completely cleared (it’s how I’ve learned how to kill the Capra Demon in the Lower Undead Burg without fighting him, something I will never chose to do again in any playthrough because that boss battle arena is way too small).
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salz4life
Grimlock
Prichard is a guy who gets that his job is to service his boss.
Posts: 14,007
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Post by salz4life on Apr 26, 2023 9:23:42 GMT -5
I used to... but now I'm 45 and don't have the time to spend an hour or two on one little "puzzle piece" that I'm missing to get past a level or quest. It's been a godsend the few times I've used it in Hogwarts Legacy. Of course, I feel like an idiot when I learn that it's this little thing I didn't realize I needed to do or that I completely missed, but still.
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Apr 26, 2023 9:28:03 GMT -5
Sierra adventure games from the late 80s & early 90s are full of those "how was anyone supposed to figure that out" puzzles. Being a young kid trying to play Kings Quest or Space Quest was sometimes a pain. Since getting it wrong usually yielded instant results (outside of not saving that smurfing mouse from the cat), you usually got to quickly learn and retry it. There were a number of sierra things that didn't become apparent until much later in the game that made it unwinnable or just flat out killed you. Space quest 2 an alien kisses you on the second screen and you die right before the end of the game. In one of the leisure suit Larry have if you don't pick everything up on the first screen that is required you can't go back.
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tafkaga
Samurai Cop
the Dogfather
Posts: 2,124
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Post by tafkaga on Apr 26, 2023 9:28:15 GMT -5
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