thecrusherwi
El Dandy
the Financially Responsible Man
Brawl For All
Posts: 7,656
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Post by thecrusherwi on Jun 7, 2023 9:02:31 GMT -5
He's pretty big. But seriously, it has to be this moment... . I truly believe to much credit is given to this, & not the fact that the two other companies had gone out of business. WCW dying had way more to do with the audience leaving then a poorly timed heel turn. I think it was a combination of all of it. I could see many WCW fans coming over to watch WWF and give it a chance, only for Austin to immediately turn heel and Rock to leave for three months to do movies. So you lose WCW and then get a noticeably different/watered down version of the WWF. I could see lots of the WCW regulars saying f this and moving on with their lives.
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Sephiroth
Wade Wilson
Surviving
Posts: 28,931
Member is Online
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Post by Sephiroth on Jun 7, 2023 9:02:55 GMT -5
Arquette as WCW champion. outside of being a final nail in the coffin of WCW, the crossover publicity Russo was trying to court was overwhelmingly negative. Those outside of fandom already held a low opinion of wrestling, but putting the belt on Arquette somehow made it look even worse. The fact that it was accompanied by a godawful movie that made wrestling fans look like idiots and it virtually killed Arquette’s caterer for a long time just furthers the destructive legacy. I've often compared it to trying to save someone whose bleeding to death by shooting them in the head. The fact that David knew it was a terrible idea and fought against it tooth and nail only for Russo to force him into it due to contractual obligation makes it even worse. Using celebrities to add hype and generate interest is as old as the hills, and it usually works best when they are actual fans. But Arquette was a really oddball choice for it; he was getting a lot work at the time thanks to the popularity of the Scream movies, but he was still far from a hot topic celebrity and at the time he was mostly known for a seriously annoying commercial campaign for AT&T (seriously, those damn commercials were everywhere). Using him in sone capacity wasn’t a terrible idea but they dud about the worst possible job of it. Pulling out my fantasy booking pen: an elusive if Nitro where Arquette is in the front row, the announcers make it a point to identify him and say he befriended DDP while making the movie. At some point Arquette and Russo get into an altercation, a shoving match over the barrier. The next week the main event of Nitro is DDP and Arquette bs Jarrett and Russo and Arquette gets the lib over Russo. Then that’s a wrap.
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Post by "Playboy" Don Douglas on Jun 7, 2023 9:05:38 GMT -5
Cornette has said that using the Gangstas helped business in the big towns (Knoxville, Johnson City) but hurt it in the small towns, which is where they ran most of their shows. So a bunch of racists didn't watch the two black guys? Good. f*** them. Pretty much, yeah. I hate to say it since it’s my home area, but I’m willing to bet they saw and heard a lot of shit during that run.
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Post by JasonVoorhees1988 on Jun 7, 2023 9:23:40 GMT -5
Double post
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Post by JasonVoorhees1988 on Jun 7, 2023 9:23:56 GMT -5
So a bunch of racists didn't watch the two black guys? Good. f*** them. Pretty much, yeah. I hate to say it since it’s my home area, but I’m willing to bet they saw and heard a lot of shit during that run. I'm originally born in Kentucky. I grew up in Lexington, but spent many years in the eastern part of the state. The amount of racism, sexism, transphobia and homophobia I was witness to, was astounding. It was so casual. I live on the KY, TN border now and unfortunately still witness it sometimes.
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Post by Jindrak Mark on Jun 7, 2023 9:58:51 GMT -5
In 2011-13 WWE had some massive success with Rock/Cena being the main selling point for 3 of the biggest PPV buyrates ever. Taker/HHH did great numbers on TV too and is about as strong as a semi-main event/supporting act you could get. And Brock/HHH was a pretty huge and underrated drawing feud too.
The lesson they learned from this success (bring in part-timers for the big PPVs and do great business) may have hurt them in other areas though (the PPVs with no part-timers feeling less important, house show ticket sales dropping because fans know those names won't appear etc).
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Post by Ronny Rayguns Is All Elite on Jun 7, 2023 10:00:18 GMT -5
Cornette has said that using the Gangstas helped business in the big towns (Knoxville, Johnson City) but hurt it in the small towns, which is where they ran most of their shows. So a bunch of racists didn't watch the two black guys? Good. f*** them. I can believe it Cornette outright told them to go out and say things to piss off white people.
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Post by JasonVoorhees1988 on Jun 7, 2023 10:51:30 GMT -5
So a bunch of racists didn't watch the two black guys? Good. f*** them. I can believe it Cornette outright told them to go out and say things to piss off white people. Can you really insult white people tho? Like... I kno Louis CK is a pariah now, rightfully so, but he had a great bit that went something like "Oh no he called me a cracker. Took me back to when people owned land... And other people." The point being that white people have had it great here.
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chrom
Backup Wench
Master of the rare undecuple post
Posts: 84,718
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Post by chrom on Jun 7, 2023 13:24:11 GMT -5
I can believe it Cornette outright told them to go out and say things to piss off white people. Can you really insult white people tho? Like... I kno Louis CK is a pariah now, rightfully so, but he had a great bit that went something like "Oh no he called me a cracker. Took me back to when people owned land... And other people." The point being that white people have had it great here. Tell that to The Irish
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Post by "Playboy" Don Douglas on Jun 7, 2023 20:15:20 GMT -5
I can believe it Cornette outright told them to go out and say things to piss off white people. Can you really insult white people tho? Like... I kno Louis CK is a pariah now, rightfully so, but he had a great bit that went something like "Oh no he called me a cracker. Took me back to when people owned land... And other people." The point being that white people have had it great here. I very briefly worked as a manager on some outlaw mud shows in east Tennessee. As soon as they saw me in a suit, they didn't like me. I tried to stay away from it because it felt like cheap heat, but literally just going on about them being a bunch of inbred rednecks who draw government checks and food stamps because they're so lazy and by the way, they don't know how to bathe properly would be enough to get people pissed off. I legit carried a switchblade in my jacket because I wanted to be ready if somebody tried to jump me. It's like most white trash doesn't like having someone throw it in their face that they're white trash.
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Ultimo Gallos
Grimlock
Dreams SUCK!Nightmares live FOREVER!
Posts: 14,404
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Post by Ultimo Gallos on Jun 7, 2023 21:09:05 GMT -5
So a bunch of racists didn't watch the two black guys? Good. f*** them. Pretty much, yeah. I hate to say it since it’s my home area, but I’m willing to bet they saw and heard a lot of shit during that run. Thankfully I haven;t heard any racist stuff at a show since I moved back to MS 16 years ago. But year 80s and 90s.....
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Mozenrath
FANatic
Foppery and Whim
Speedy Speed Boy
Posts: 121,080
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Post by Mozenrath on Jun 7, 2023 21:13:34 GMT -5
Can you really insult white people tho? Like... I kno Louis CK is a pariah now, rightfully so, but he had a great bit that went something like "Oh no he called me a cracker. Took me back to when people owned land... And other people." The point being that white people have had it great here. I very briefly worked as a manager on some outlaw mud shows in east Tennessee. As soon as they saw me in a suit, they didn't like me. I tried to stay away from it because it felt like cheap heat, but literally just going on about them being a bunch of inbred rednecks who draw government checks and food stamps because they're so lazy and by the way, they don't know how to bathe properly would be enough to get people pissed off. I legit carried a switchblade in my jacket because I wanted to be ready if somebody tried to jump me. It's like most white trash doesn't like having someone throw it in their face that they're white trash. Right. Even the unabashedly awful people of the world (not saying that's everyone there, obviously, just the nakedly racist ones) still really do not like to feel patronized or condescended to.
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Post by Stone Coke Miami Watson 🥃 on Jun 7, 2023 21:54:09 GMT -5
Arquette as WCW champion. outside of being a final nail in the coffin of WCW, the crossover publicity Russo was trying to court was overwhelmingly negative. Those outside of fandom already held a low opinion of wrestling, but putting the belt on Arquette somehow made it look even worse. The fact that it was accompanied by a godawful movie that made wrestling fans look like idiots and it virtually killed Arquette’s caterer for a long time just furthers the destructive legacy. Couldn’t he just have hired someone else to do his catering?
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Post by "Playboy" Don Douglas on Jun 7, 2023 22:22:04 GMT -5
I very briefly worked as a manager on some outlaw mud shows in east Tennessee. As soon as they saw me in a suit, they didn't like me. I tried to stay away from it because it felt like cheap heat, but literally just going on about them being a bunch of inbred rednecks who draw government checks and food stamps because they're so lazy and by the way, they don't know how to bathe properly would be enough to get people pissed off. I legit carried a switchblade in my jacket because I wanted to be ready if somebody tried to jump me. It's like most white trash doesn't like having someone throw it in their face that they're white trash. Right. Even the unabashedly awful people of the world (not saying that's everyone there, obviously, just the nakedly racist ones) still really do not like to feel patronized or condescended to. I've noticed that around here, people tend to fall on one of two sides: either "Everyone around here is ignorant racist trash who are probably on drugs," or "The redneck stereotypes are harmful and incorrect, there are wonderful people here who are skilled in various ways and accepting of others!" The truth is that both are accurate. There's plenty of hateful, willfully ignorant white trash who may or may not be strung out, and there's plenty of people who are some of the best you could hope to meet anywhere. Both sides tend to hold onto their own view of what southern/Appalachian life is supposed to be. It's a little frustrating.
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Post by The Barber on Jun 8, 2023 7:00:25 GMT -5
I truly believe to much credit is given to this, & not the fact that the two other companies had gone out of business. WCW dying had way more to do with the audience leaving then a poorly timed heel turn. True, but this didn't help.
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Post by Triangle Lancer on Jun 9, 2023 19:53:06 GMT -5
He's pretty big. But seriously, it has to be this moment... . I truly believe to much credit is given to this, & not the fact that the two other companies had gone out of business. WCW dying had way more to do with the audience leaving then a poorly timed heel turn.[/v] Bingo.
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Post by TOK Hehe'd Around & Found Out on Jun 9, 2023 21:03:12 GMT -5
CM Punk's pipebomb created interest but in the long run I don't think getting a slightly higher MITB buyrate was worth the flipside of so many wrestlers/bookers for years to come then thinking they had to be "shooty" all the time. The pipebomb didn't even really draw that well short term. MITB wasn't even the highest drawing non-major PPV of the year and Punk was never really a draw afterwards. Six months later he was getting outdrawn by Sheamus on a year-over-year basis using the TLC PPV.
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Post by JasonVoorhees1988 on Jun 9, 2023 21:13:40 GMT -5
CM Punk's pipebomb created interest but in the long run I don't think getting a slightly higher MITB buyrate was worth the flipside of so many wrestlers/bookers for years to come then thinking they had to be "shooty" all the time. The pipebomb didn't even really draw that well short term. MITB wasn't even the highest drawing non-major PPV of the year and Punk was never really a draw afterwards. Six months later he was getting outdrawn by Sheamus on a year-over-year basis using the TLC PPV. I like Punk, or did back then anyways, but he was never a draw.
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Post by TOK Hehe'd Around & Found Out on Jun 9, 2023 21:36:55 GMT -5
The pipebomb didn't even really draw that well short term. MITB wasn't even the highest drawing non-major PPV of the year and Punk was never really a draw afterwards. Six months later he was getting outdrawn by Sheamus on a year-over-year basis using the TLC PPV. I like Punk, or did back then anyways, but he was never a draw. He was worth a good 5-10% bump to AEW which is absolutely nothing to sneeze at if he doesn't burn down the rest of the company's top draws
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Savage Gambino
King Koopa
Villain Behavior
Posts: 12,329
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Post by Savage Gambino on Jun 11, 2023 9:26:23 GMT -5
Talking of TNA that stupid roster address by Dixie might not have diretly hurt business but I'm pretty sure it hurt the perception of the company with both wrestlers and fans long-term which would hurt their business. If we're talking about Dixie and TNA moments that hurt business, we gotta talk about #ItHappens. Meant to be the culmination of Dixie Carter's own turn at the already incredibly worn-out "evil boss" angle, it basically involved Bully Ray's promise to powerbomb then 50-something year old Dixie, who had never had a wrestling match or any training whatsoever, through a table. Besides all of the glaringly obvious problems with that, Spike TV had already given TNA a strict no male-on-female violence edict. Anyway, #ItHappened, Dixie got injured, and TNA was off Spike TV by the end of the year. TNA/Impact would bounce around from network to network, effectively reduced from #2 wrestling company in America to an also-ran, while much of their talent would go to WWE, ROH, NWA, overseas, and eventually, to the next #2 All Elite Wrestling. Impact has since found it's footing, and even has some of the best wrestling television in the country, but they're a far cry away from the company that was once WCW's spiritual successor as the alternative to the Fed.
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