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Post by BlahBlah on Jul 6, 2023 15:24:41 GMT -5
I'm 1000% convinced Warner knew what they were getting into by having a Saturday night wrestling show. I think the "doom and gloom" posts on a show 3 episodes deep might be a tad premature. Then again, I don't really think ratings are the be-all of how a wrestling show performs anyway. I’m not sure Warner knows what they’re doing at any given time in any area. Yeah I posted in a ratings thread recently that Warner isn't dumb and knew what they were getting into with a Saturday night time slot but perhaps I gave them too much credit.
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Post by stoptheclocks on Jul 6, 2023 17:51:31 GMT -5
aaaaaaanyways, like i've said before this show failing so far has very little to do with punk. if anything his matches have been pretty entertaining but they don't lead in to next week and there's no real pull to go out of your way on a saturday to watch it. you can't just be like "THIS GUY WILL TALK!" and expect numbers for some brand new show. a good or above average booker would have his new shows first month or two set up at least and lure viewers into making it a habit to watch. they've done absolute jackshit with that and this is the result of that it didn't work with rampage to have one or two banger shows and then just assume your people will watch it no matter what, it won't work now. They rolled this show out almost like expecting fans to pitch the show for themselves instead of doing much to explain it onscreen. It's night and day with the way they promoted shows prior. Like really, compare the rollout of this to the build to the First Dance, the hype was insane and they built to it so well, with Collision it's just like "cmon you get it. cmonnnn." There really needs to more storylines and big moments to define what this show is just past the returning people too IMO. The first show not having any kind of ending hook for storylines moving forward feels like another blunder in line with the rest of this show's start, just not giving people who would be engaged reasons to stick around. Now watch this weeks do a bajillion viewers so all my whining about the show promotion/advertising is promptly rendered irrelevant. Fundamentally, this has to be a huge reason. I get some people are liking Collision, but I think even they would have to agree that the way they've gone about promoting the show has been far from perfect. I just think if you asked 100 people on here to plan a launch of a show, none would suggest Tony Khan's awkward weekly announcements followed by two functional but entirely unremarkable episodes of TV. The whole thing has felt constrained, like it's been thrown together out of neccesities rather than because they thought it would make a compelling show (this person can't be on a show with this person, this person is a pain in the ass, this person doesn't want to work Wednesdays). Who knows where it'll go from here, but it's been a bit of an odd start all around.
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Post by Cyno on Jul 6, 2023 18:32:58 GMT -5
They run ads for Collision constantly on all the WBD channels and social media. Whatever the show's problems are for attracting a larger audience on a consistent basis, it's not for lack of promotion.
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UN PLOMBIER NIGHTMARE #blm
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Post by UN PLOMBIER NIGHTMARE #blm on Jul 6, 2023 19:38:00 GMT -5
They run ads for Collision constantly on all the WBD channels and social media. Whatever the show's problems are for attracting a larger audience on a consistent basis, it's not for lack of promotion. Not lack of promotion, promoting what is going to happen on the show or storylines. I could be wrong but pretty much every single ad I’ve seen either says cm punk is here or miro is here or something along those lines. Advertise what bullet club gold is doing or the house of black tormenting Andrade, don’t just be like hey this guy might appear lmao.
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King Devitt
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Post by King Devitt on Jul 6, 2023 19:39:18 GMT -5
I remember people telling me how bad the Dreamcast was selling when all I wanted to do was playing Shenmue and House of the Dead II on Christmas Eve. Fun times. Well jokes on them because the Dreamcast is the best console ever made, still to this day. *glares at you in Atari 7800*
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UN PLOMBIER NIGHTMARE #blm
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Post by UN PLOMBIER NIGHTMARE #blm on Jul 6, 2023 19:49:00 GMT -5
Well jokes on them because the Dreamcast is the best console ever made, still to this day. *glares at you in Atari 7800* can an Atari 7800 gamer and a sega dreamcast gamer agree on giving a show rampage advertising gives us rampage ratings? lmao
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Post by Facetious on Jul 6, 2023 19:49:15 GMT -5
They run ads for Collision constantly on all the WBD channels and social media. Whatever the show's problems are for attracting a larger audience on a consistent basis, it's not for lack of promotion. Not lack of promotion, promoting what is going to happen on the show or storylines. I could be wrong but pretty much every single ad I’ve seen either says cm punk is here or miro is here or something along those lines. Advertise what bullet club gold is doing or the house of black tormenting Andrade, don’t just be like hey this guy might appear lmao. I think Collision is fine, but there is nothing to bite onto right now. AEW has 3 tournaments going on right now. They're not interesting. Collision has been CMFTStarks vs BC Gold, Hart Tournament, Andrade picking up wins, and Miro squashes. Unless you're an absolute ROH die hard, why should you care that Joe and Punk wrestled 18 years ago? I think they expecting Punk and the AEW branding to do all the initial leg work, but it isn't. It's a Saturday night show during the summer. If I'm off, I'm recording the show and I'm going out and enjoying myself.
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Post by UN PLOMBIER NIGHTMARE #blm on Jul 6, 2023 19:58:45 GMT -5
Not lack of promotion, promoting what is going to happen on the show or storylines. I could be wrong but pretty much every single ad I’ve seen either says cm punk is here or miro is here or something along those lines. Advertise what bullet club gold is doing or the house of black tormenting Andrade, don’t just be like hey this guy might appear lmao. I think Collision is fine, but there is nothing to bite onto right now. AEW has 3 tournaments going on right now. They're not interesting. Collision has been CMFTStarks vs BC Gold, Hart Tournament, Andrade picking up wins, and Miro squashes. Unless you're an absolute ROH die hard, why should you care that Joe and Punk wrestled 18 years ago? I think they expecting Punk and the AEW branding to do all the initial leg work, but it isn't. It's a Saturday night show during the summer. If I'm off, I'm recording the show and I'm going out and enjoying myself. Pretty much! Just watch it Sunday if anything. If there's a banger show scheduled and they advertised it well, I'd try to make it though. It's like with their PPVs and when WWE does Saturday ones, it can be a good day Saturday but you really gotta work for it. The shows have been pretty decent and not anywhere near bad but they need a lot more than that.
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Post by Kalmia on Jul 6, 2023 20:18:27 GMT -5
Collision needs a killer angle to get it off the ground. The first Dynamite had the formation of the Inner Circle and Collision didn't really have anything. Even the abandoned KENTA angle would have only been a short term thing. Dynamite currently has the BCC vs Elite stuff, Cole and MJF, and several other things. Collision seems to be mainly built around the Owen tournament right now.
It's cliché and it's been done to death but they really should have led with Bullet Club Gold trying to takeover or something.
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Post by bearned on Jul 6, 2023 20:43:26 GMT -5
They run ads for Collision constantly on all the WBD channels and social media. Whatever the show's problems are for attracting a larger audience on a consistent basis, it's not for lack of promotion. Not lack of promotion, promoting what is going to happen on the show or storylines. I could be wrong but pretty much every single ad I’ve seen either says cm punk is here or miro is here or something along those lines. Advertise what bullet club gold is doing or the house of black tormenting Andrade, don’t just be like hey this guy might appear lmao. I like the show and I’m certainly not a doomer about ratings but the biggest problem they have is putting talent with a history of being ‘difficult’ on the show. This has meant they have been reluctant to do anything storyline wise because (and this is just my opinion) they just didn’t know if Punk, Miro and Andrade would show up. Now things have settled somewhat, creatively at least I expect they will start to kick into gear. Then there will be more angles etc to promote etc.
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Post by Some Guy on Jul 6, 2023 21:09:39 GMT -5
Not lack of promotion, promoting what is going to happen on the show or storylines. I could be wrong but pretty much every single ad I’ve seen either says cm punk is here or miro is here or something along those lines. Advertise what bullet club gold is doing or the house of black tormenting Andrade, don’t just be like hey this guy might appear lmao. I think Collision is fine, but there is nothing to bite onto right now. AEW has 3 tournaments going on right now. They're not interesting. Collision has been CMFTStarks vs BC Gold, Hart Tournament, Andrade picking up wins, and Miro squashes. Unless you're an absolute ROH die hard, why should you care that Joe and Punk wrestled 18 years ago? I think they expecting Punk and the AEW branding to do all the initial leg work, but it isn't. It's a Saturday night show during the summer. If I'm off, I'm recording the show and I'm going out and enjoying myself. Joe is basically an Indy god and even dominated Brock Lesnar in a PPV main event. It's not exactly hard to sell this for a few weeks when you can see the crowd reaction he/Punk get any time they are near each other. Hell Dynamite is selling a TV feud on BTE skits the last two weeks at this point. I can promise you more people can link to Joe/Punk than that.
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Post by ace on Jul 6, 2023 22:32:57 GMT -5
Collision needs a killer angle to get it off the ground. The first Dynamite had the formation of the Inner Circle and Collision didn't really have anything. Even the abandoned KENTA angle would have only been a short term thing. Dynamite currently has the BCC vs Elite stuff, Cole and MJF, and several other things. Collision seems to be mainly built around the Owen tournament right now. It's cliché and it's been done to death but they really should have led with Bullet Club Gold trying to takeover or something. It has the return of CM Punk in his hometown after being the most talked about person in the business for months.
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Post by Kalmia on Jul 7, 2023 4:26:00 GMT -5
Collision needs a killer angle to get it off the ground. The first Dynamite had the formation of the Inner Circle and Collision didn't really have anything. Even the abandoned KENTA angle would have only been a short term thing. Dynamite currently has the BCC vs Elite stuff, Cole and MJF, and several other things. Collision seems to be mainly built around the Owen tournament right now. It's cliché and it's been done to death but they really should have led with Bullet Club Gold trying to takeover or something. It has the return of CM Punk in his hometown after being the most talked about person in the business for months. Which was good for the first show but what was the hook for watching the second? Or the third show?
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Jul 7, 2023 4:40:45 GMT -5
It has the return of CM Punk in his hometown after being the most talked about person in the business for months. Which was good for the first show but what was the hook for watching the second? Or the third show? Punk vs Joe is the draw for the upcoming, at least in theory it should be, they've advertised a lot of stuff for this week for Collision so it appears they've gotten the point in that regard
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Post by Kalmia on Jul 7, 2023 4:57:29 GMT -5
Which was good for the first show but what was the hook for watching the second? Or the third show? Punk vs Joe is the draw for the upcoming, at least in theory it should be, they've advertised a lot of stuff for this week for Collision so it appears they've gotten the point in that regard But they're all just one-off things. What people are saying (and what others either aren't seeing or are purposely ignoring) is that Collision is really lacking in storylines that make people want to tune into next week. It's just a collection of matches when wrestling is at its best when it's episodic and makes you want to see what happens next. Ideally, you need both angles and intriguing matches.
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Jul 7, 2023 5:29:44 GMT -5
Punk vs Joe is the draw for the upcoming, at least in theory it should be, they've advertised a lot of stuff for this week for Collision so it appears they've gotten the point in that regard But they're all just one-off things. What people are saying (and what others either aren't seeing or are purposely ignoring) is that Collision is really lacking in storylines that make people want to tune into next week. It's just a collection of matches when wrestling is at its best when it's episodic and makes you want to see what happens next. Ideally, you need both angles and intriguing matches. Punk vs Jay White was clearly being set up last week, Ricky vs Juice has been a storyline for months, Bullet Club Gold has been building on this brand more, House of Black vs Andrade has been showcased every single week, and it appears the Ethan Page storyline is something that kickstarted this week that is going to continue across AEW programming Ideally yes you want more storylines to form but I don't think they're doing literally nothing to try and build angles across the two hours. You can also set up storylines through this Owen Tournament, which, on Collision they've been doing with Joe destroying Roddy. They had multiple angles running at the end of the show, which they continued through Dynamite in promos to set up Punk vs Joe. I can't say they aren't trying to have you watch what happens next or trying to build to something than "It's just a collection of matches" by the week.
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Post by Blade on Jul 7, 2023 7:57:46 GMT -5
But they're all just one-off things. What people are saying (and what others either aren't seeing or are purposely ignoring) is that Collision is really lacking in storylines that make people want to tune into next week. It's just a collection of matches when wrestling is at its best when it's episodic and makes you want to see what happens next. Ideally, you need both angles and intriguing matches. That's an issue AEW often has because it frequently relies on a couple of top tier feuds to carry shows while everything else is sold on Good Wrestling Matches. Collision does have two ongoing "original" storylines (CMFTRARKS vs BCG and Andrade vs. HoB), which isn't that far off what Dynamite often has. But I think the disconnect here is twofold: 1) Collision really wanted something white-hot to successfully attract tons of people to take it up as a new show. 2) Neither of those feuds is it. Andrade/HoB is still waiting for the other shoe to drop since obviously he can't take them on alone, and while Andrade is awesome, he's also just getting back after a long layoff and an underwhelming first run. Punk&Friends/BCG I suspected was expected to carry the show like Elite/BCC does Dynamite, but it doesn't have the same level of fan investment. You can blame the latter on a number of factors and discuss how much Punk's drawing power was hurt by the scrum versus whether BGC are really considered top tier by the AEW audience, but the much easier answer is that Elite/BCC is pretty much "look at all these top guys you've been invested in for years in an all-out war" and has been cooking awhile, and the Collision feud just isn't there. I say this despite the fact that I have personally tuned out most of what the BCC has done for months; the feud just feels "big" in a way the Collision one doesn't, regardless of how much I personally prefer the latter. There also hasn't been any shocking developments, though the matches are good. Like this week, Juice's own mother probably didn't buy he was beating Starks. So I both agree and disagree, in short. I don't think Collision is booked that differently than a lot of random Dynamites, but I think it needed to be booked differently (with more top to bottom hooks to keep people invested) to attract a bigger audience to watch regularly, and I also think there were too many eggs in the top feud's basket. It has the potential to be a really hot angle that gets people tuning in, but it needs more time for it and Punk's star power alone isn't going to do it if he's not saying or doing anything particularly controversial.
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Post by markymark on Jul 7, 2023 11:39:03 GMT -5
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Post by Doo Doo is a Ratings Expert on Jul 7, 2023 11:42:43 GMT -5
Bischoff offering a rational take on AEW? Huh.
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Post by fw91 on Jul 7, 2023 11:43:27 GMT -5
Any word on how Dynamite did in comparison?
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