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Post by Mid-Carder on Jul 24, 2023 12:33:23 GMT -5
Would love to hear all the other instances in wrestling history where the face would insult the local sports team in multiple cities. In most cases you would have a point but I feel like Punk has always blurred the line, no matter whether he's heel or face
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ASYLUMHAUSEN
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Post by ASYLUMHAUSEN on Jul 24, 2023 12:33:33 GMT -5
It really seems like they're John Cena-ing it, where for all intents and purposes in the narrative he's the big #1 face while throwing out a few breadcrumbs for the people booing him where he's slightly heelish that probably won't ever go anywhere. So Punk, in fact, has become what he hates...The New York Yankees Detroit Red Wings/St Louis Cardinals/Green Bay Packers
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Post by This Player Hating Mothman on Jul 24, 2023 12:44:18 GMT -5
Would love to hear all the other instances in wrestling history where the face would insult the local sports team in multiple cities. In most cases you would have a point but I feel like Punk has always blurred the line, no matter whether he's heel or face Face Punk is always a little edgy and a little dickish. it almost seems like kind of a disservice to the guy's heel work and how utterly inspired it's been in the past to prop up a cheap heat line he's throwing at people booing him and going "This is him heeling" because he can do so much better than that. Guy built his career doing so much better than that. If the portent of his heel turn is some comments about hockey then this heel run is going to underwhelm big time.
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The Ichi
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Post by The Ichi on Jul 24, 2023 12:47:28 GMT -5
Punk has fat-shamed a random fan in the crowd on two occasions that I can think of. Once in AEW, once in WWE. Both times were during face runs. Insulting a sports team is pretty much face territory for him.
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Post by firsttimelongtime on Jul 24, 2023 13:03:43 GMT -5
Would love to hear all the other instances in wrestling history where the face would insult the local sports team in multiple cities. CM Punk himself in AEW every time he's gone to Long Island. Once in the MJF feud taking a shot at the crowd booing him, once when he came out for a match against John Silver in an Islanders jersey. In neither of those stories was Punk actually the heel, which goes to the diea that maybe just when a crowd boos him he takes the shot back at them, rather than that he's narratively being portrayed as a heel or even a gray character. I asked for multiple cities. Again, I would like to hear all the other examples. CM Punk could come out and say buying tickets to an AEW show makes you a dumb person and people here would still find a way to tell me he’s actually being presented as a face because saving money could be good for fans.
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Post by This Player Hating Mothman on Jul 24, 2023 13:09:40 GMT -5
CM Punk himself in AEW every time he's gone to Long Island. Once in the MJF feud taking a shot at the crowd booing him, once when he came out for a match against John Silver in an Islanders jersey. In neither of those stories was Punk actually the heel, which goes to the diea that maybe just when a crowd boos him he takes the shot back at them, rather than that he's narratively being portrayed as a heel or even a gray character. I asked for multiple cities. Again, I would like to hear all the other examples. CM Punk could come out and say buying tickets to an AEW show makes you a dumb person and people here would still find a way to tell me he’s actually being presented as a face because saving money could be good for fans. Asking for proof and then unnecessarily constructing easily dunkable-on strawman arguments nobody is making so you can do sick karate moves on them is some kind of a strategy, but not for a productive conversation where people engage with you on a meaningful level.
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Post by firsttimelongtime on Jul 24, 2023 13:15:12 GMT -5
I asked for multiple cities. Again, I would like to hear all the other examples. CM Punk could come out and say buying tickets to an AEW show makes you a dumb person and people here would still find a way to tell me he’s actually being presented as a face because saving money could be good for fans. Asking for proof and then unnecessarily constructing easily dunkable-on strawman arguments nobody is making so you can do sick karate moves on them is some kind of a strategy, but not for a productive conversation where people engage with you on a meaningful level. But it’s productive when I ask for multiple cities to instead give me a one city answer to point why I’m wrong? You didn’t answer my question at all. Faces have been heels in certain cities forever. And vice versa. I have never seen a face continuously insult the local sports teams. The point is, the idea Punk is presented as babyface as guys like Kenny or Darby or The Acclaimed is totally asinine. I don’t know if he will do a full heel turn, but there’s clearly some nuance being presented in the Ricky/Punk dichotomy which people willfully ignore.
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Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on Jul 24, 2023 13:15:14 GMT -5
We spent all of Cody's run wondering if they'd listen to the crowds and turn him, not banking on it any time soon. And frankly speaking, Cody was more compelling about it, and even that got old.
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The Ichi
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Post by The Ichi on Jul 24, 2023 13:17:19 GMT -5
CM Punk himself in AEW every time he's gone to Long Island. Once in the MJF feud taking a shot at the crowd booing him, once when he came out for a match against John Silver in an Islanders jersey. In neither of those stories was Punk actually the heel, which goes to the diea that maybe just when a crowd boos him he takes the shot back at them, rather than that he's narratively being portrayed as a heel or even a gray character. I asked for multiple cities. Again, I would like to hear all the other examples. CM Punk could come out and say buying tickets to an AEW show makes you a dumb person and people here would still find a way to tell me he’s actually being presented as a face because saving money could be good for fans. Dude, he's been feuding with heels since his return. The only face he's wrestled TURNED HEEL IN THAT MATCH. Narritively, he is a face. The wink and nudge mentions of parts of the crowd booing him are because they don't want to fully mention the reason fans have turned him, and him acting like a dick is what he does. He's never been a whitemeat babyface.
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Post by This Player Hating Mothman on Jul 24, 2023 13:22:21 GMT -5
Asking for proof and then unnecessarily constructing easily dunkable-on strawman arguments nobody is making so you can do sick karate moves on them is some kind of a strategy, but not for a productive conversation where people engage with you on a meaningful level. But it’s productive when I ask for multiple cities to instead give me a one city answer to point why I’m wrong? You didn’t answer my question at all. Faces have been heels in certain cities forever. And vice versa. I have never seen a face continuously insult the local sports teams. The point is, the idea Punk is presented as babyface as guys like Kenny or Darby or The Acclaimed is totally asinine. I don’t know if he will do a full heel turn, but there’s clearly some nuance being presented in the Ricky/Punk dichotomy which people willfully ignore. Yeah sure I'll grant that under the very specific phrasing of your question that yeah people probably don't have the answer you want. We could talk about the nuances there. Maybe talk about how if CM Punk's done this in a face capacity before then he's literally done it in multiple cities with these new promos,and is an example himself, if that's not too recursive for you. Or maybe talk about how the appeal to history argument in saying that hasn't been done--again under the very narrowly specific definition laid out--means that it can't be happening here isn't that strong. But to say that me not engaging with your question to your satisfaction is somehow comparable to just making up a weirdo strawman to ignore and dismiss what anyone else is saying? Nah. That's more reason that this is gonna be my last reply to you.
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Post by stoptheclocks on Jul 24, 2023 13:24:46 GMT -5
'He's leaning into it, he's going to turn heel any minute now' is encroaching onto 'guys, this is a work' territory when it comes to wrestling opinions that are wrong a staggering amount of the time.
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Post by firsttimelongtime on Jul 24, 2023 13:33:40 GMT -5
But it’s productive when I ask for multiple cities to instead give me a one city answer to point why I’m wrong? You didn’t answer my question at all. Faces have been heels in certain cities forever. And vice versa. I have never seen a face continuously insult the local sports teams. The point is, the idea Punk is presented as babyface as guys like Kenny or Darby or The Acclaimed is totally asinine. I don’t know if he will do a full heel turn, but there’s clearly some nuance being presented in the Ricky/Punk dichotomy which people willfully ignore. Yeah sure I'll grant that under the very specific phrasing of your question that yeah people probably don't have the answer you want. We could talk about the nuances there. Maybe talk about how if CM Punk's done this in a face capacity before then he's literally done it in multiple cities with these new promos,and is an example himself, if that's not too recursive for you. Or maybe talk about how the appeal to history argument in saying that hasn't been done--again under the very narrowly specific definition laid out--means that it can't be happening here isn't that strong. But to say that me not engaging with your question to your satisfaction is somehow comparable to just making up a weirdo strawman to ignore and dismiss what anyone else is saying? Nah. That's more reason that this is gonna be my last reply to you.
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Fade
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Post by Fade on Jul 24, 2023 14:29:42 GMT -5
Punk has fat-shamed a random fan in the crowd on two occasions that I can think of. Once in AEW, once in WWE. Both times were during face runs. Insulting a sports team is pretty much face territory for him. The Cena juxtaposition is amazing. Cena took the high road. Always, always, always. Phil cannot. Ever since Punk’s come to AEW, he’s got me looking back on John like J. Jonah Jameson: Bastard was a hero and I just couldn’t see it.
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Kalmia
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Post by Kalmia on Jul 24, 2023 14:51:14 GMT -5
IMO, Punk has always been a better heel than a face. He's done the face run in AEW so doing a heel run would be a million times more interesting. He better turn heel otherwise this run isn't going to hit the heights it should.
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Post by yokohamacpfc on Jul 24, 2023 14:52:25 GMT -5
I'm going on yes because faces Darby and FTR (esp bald) have been acting like dicks lately and have been in Punk's orbit. I suspect a heel stable is about to form. TK experimenting with an MJF face turn at the same time is not a coincidence I feel.
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markymark
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Post by markymark on Jul 24, 2023 15:07:03 GMT -5
IMO, Punk has always been a better heel than a face. He's done the face run in AEW so doing a heel run would be a million times more interesting. He better turn heel otherwise this run isn't going to hit the heights it should.
If heel Ricky continues to get more over and manages to get to current Cole/MJF level then that would be the time to do that double turn.
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Post by Mr Mario Mario on Jul 24, 2023 15:07:33 GMT -5
I hope if he does that the crowds start cheering for him no matter what to keep f****** with him ha
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Dub H
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Post by Dub H on Jul 24, 2023 15:16:56 GMT -5
I'm going on yes because faces Darby and FTR (esp bald) have been acting like dicks lately and have been in Punk's orbit. I suspect a heel stable is about to form. TK experimenting with an MJF face turn at the same time is not a coincidence I feel. That is just the CM Punk nature, where you always act like you are always right so everyone else is a moron in the wrong
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2023 15:42:36 GMT -5
I asked for multiple cities. Again, I would like to hear all the other examples. CM Punk could come out and say buying tickets to an AEW show makes you a dumb person and people here would still find a way to tell me he’s actually being presented as a face because saving money could be good for fans. Dude, he's been feuding with heels since his return. The only face he's wrestled TURNED HEEL IN THAT MATCH. Narritively, he is a face. The wink and nudge mentions of parts of the crowd booing him are because they don't want to fully mention the reason fans have turned him, and him acting like a dick is what he does. He's never been a whitemeat babyface.
Yeeeep.
To put it bluntly, whether or not Punk is a face or a heel isn't really debatable.
Whether or not he's good at being a babyface? That's something we can all argue about until the heat death of the universe because what makes a good face or a good heel is subjective, but the role he's cast for isn't, if that makes sense.
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UN PLOMBIER NIGHTMARE #blm
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Post by UN PLOMBIER NIGHTMARE #blm on Jul 24, 2023 15:44:21 GMT -5
Ugh. Part of the reason I originally watched AEW is because I presumed we wouldn’t get this type of Cena shit.
It is different when people wanted someone new or in my case, was angry he didn’t put Christian and others over back then. Cena was never a dickhead, this dude is and I don’t want to nibble on the carrot. Boo, cheer, none of it is entertaining television. Worst part of a really good show.
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