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Post by polarbearpete on Aug 7, 2023 15:49:55 GMT -5
Agree to disagree. I’m not sure why Jey “needed to win” unless the premise we’re operating under is that you’re either the top of the territory or you’re being wasted. He can function well as an upper midcard to main event level face as a singles star now, and maybe even more depending on the follow up if that’s what they want him to be. We’re talking about someone that had no singles career to speak of before this angle. Jey needed the win to show that the dude can get the job done. As stated by Scott Hall, if you are a face and don't win, you are f***ed. Now the dude has three failed top level title shots, it's going to be hard to get people to buy that he can get the job done, and therefore, it's going to be harder to build up the match because when it comes to the crunch, they know that the good guy isn't going to bring home the bacon. If WWE want Jey to be a main event level face, they cannot have him get the rep as a bottle job. Him having three failed title shots does not bode well. Counterpoint: you don’t need to have a world title reign to be an occasional, successful main eventer/upper midcarder, especially nowadays where world title changes have slowed down.
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jhbboy198917
Dennis Stamp
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Post by jhbboy198917 on Aug 7, 2023 15:56:48 GMT -5
Agree to disagree. I’m not sure why Jey “needed to win” unless the premise we’re operating under is that you’re either the top of the territory or you’re being wasted. He can function well as an upper midcard to main event level face as a singles star now, and maybe even more depending on the follow up if that’s what they want him to be. We’re talking about someone that had no singles career to speak of before this angle. Jey needed the win to show that the dude can get the job done. As stated by Scott Hall, if you are a face and don't win, you are f***ed. Now the dude has three failed top level title shots, it's going to be hard to get people to buy that he can get the job done, and therefore, it's going to be harder to build up the match because when it comes to the crunch, they know that the good guy isn't going to bring home the bacon. If WWE want Jey to be a main event level face, they cannot have him get the rep as a bottle job. Him having three failed title shots does not bode well. Ignoring that all 3 of those loses were thanks to Jimmy
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Nosnorb
El Dandy
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Post by Nosnorb on Aug 7, 2023 16:03:08 GMT -5
Jey needed the win to show that the dude can get the job done. As stated by Scott Hall, if you are a face and don't win, you are f***ed. Now the dude has three failed top level title shots, it's going to be hard to get people to buy that he can get the job done, and therefore, it's going to be harder to build up the match because when it comes to the crunch, they know that the good guy isn't going to bring home the bacon. If WWE want Jey to be a main event level face, they cannot have him get the rep as a bottle job. Him having three failed title shots does not bode well. Counterpoint: you don’t need to have a world title reign to be an occasional, successful main eventer/upper midcarder, especially nowadays where world title changes have slowed down. You do not want a dude that has the rep for choking as a main eventer, as it makes the build to big matches far harder as the audience knows exactly what is going to happen when the bell rings. WWE do not need another choke artist on their roster.
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Aug 7, 2023 17:22:25 GMT -5
Agree to disagree. I’m not sure why Jey “needed to win” unless the premise we’re operating under is that you’re either the top of the territory or you’re being wasted. He can function well as an upper midcard to main event level face as a singles star now, and maybe even more depending on the follow up if that’s what they want him to be. We’re talking about someone that had no singles career to speak of before this angle. Jey needed the win to show that the dude can get the job done. As stated by Scott Hall, if you are a face and don't win, you are f***ed. Now the dude has three failed top level title shots, it's going to be hard to get people to buy that he can get the job done, and therefore, it's going to be harder to build up the match because when it comes to the crunch, they know that the good guy isn't going to bring home the bacon. If WWE want Jey to be a main event level face, they cannot have him get the rep as a bottle job. Him having three failed title shots does not bode well. Yeah, "looking good in defeat" only works if like... they go on to win eventually. the first Main Event Jey run ended with him becoming Roman's bitch which did nothing for him... followed by becoming a tag team champion again... something he already achieved well before teaming with Roman. Unless this goes some where, and historically with like all of Roman's feuds it won't, Jey is basically in the same place as he started before all of the Roman stuff... arguably worse because they broke up the successful tag team to get us here.
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Post by Jindrak Mark on Aug 7, 2023 17:30:51 GMT -5
Unless this goes some where, and historically with like all of Roman's feuds it won't, Jey is basically in the same place as he started before all of the Roman stuff... arguably worse because they broke up the successful tag team to get us here. I would be interested in hearing the argument that he's in a worse spot than before The Bloodline. He main evented Wrestlemania and Summerslam in the same year. He main evented MITB and got probably the defining win of his career. He has the great dynamic with Sami that will likely be revisited. He's a big enough star now that even if Roman disappears from TV Jey v Jimmy is going to be hot enough to carry the highest rated TV show in wrestling when pre-Bloodline an Uso split/feud would've likely been midcard. Normally I try to see all sides but I can't even fathom the idea that Jey isn't multitudes of times better off thanks to the Bloodline.
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Post by polarbearpete on Aug 7, 2023 17:38:39 GMT -5
Unless this goes some where, and historically with like all of Roman's feuds it won't, Jey is basically in the same place as he started before all of the Roman stuff... arguably worse because they broke up the successful tag team to get us here. I would be interested in hearing the argument that he's in a worse spot than before The Bloodline. He main evented Wrestlemania and Summerslam in the same year. He main evented MITB and got probably the defining win of his career. He has the great dynamic with Sami that will likely be revisited. He's a big enough star now that even if Roman disappears from TV Jey v Jimmy is going to be hot enough to carry the highest rated TV show in wrestling when pre-Bloodline an Uso split/feud would've likely been midcard. Normally I try to see all sides but I can't even fathom the idea that Jey isn't multitudes of times better off thanks to the Bloodline. Yeah I understand not liking a storyline that’s taking place, that’s subjective. But some of the points being made I can’t really understand.
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Nosnorb
El Dandy
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Post by Nosnorb on Aug 7, 2023 17:53:49 GMT -5
Unless this goes some where, and historically with like all of Roman's feuds it won't, Jey is basically in the same place as he started before all of the Roman stuff... arguably worse because they broke up the successful tag team to get us here. I would be interested in hearing the argument that he's in a worse spot than before The Bloodline. The Usos have been split up, and he's starting his singles career with 3 top title match losses, and with them comes a rep as not being able to get the job done. The crowd in Detroit knew that he wasn't leaving with the title, one of the reasons the crowd was so dead. And now dude is in a feud with his brother that looks like it's going to lead to another match with Roman in time, and if he bottles it again in that, which looks to be the most likely outcome, then dude is going to have 4 failed title matches under his belt and it's going to be harder for people to get behind him, and hype up any future matches. Sure, dude got a 'mania main event when he was in the Bloodline, but now he isn't, it looks very likely that the dude is going to end up as a face with a reputation for not being able to get the job done. That is worse than being one half of the companies top tag team.
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Post by polarbearpete on Aug 7, 2023 17:59:30 GMT -5
I would be interested in hearing the argument that he's in a worse spot than before The Bloodline. The Usos have been split up, and he's starting his singles career with 3 top title match losses, and with them comes a rep as not being able to get the job done. The crowd in Detroit knew that he wasn't leaving with the title, one of the reasons the crowd was so dead. And now dude is in a feud with his brother that looks like it's going to lead to another match with Roman in time, and if he bottles it again in that, which looks to be the most likely outcome, then dude is going to have 4 failed title matches under his belt and it's going to be harder for people to get behind him, and hype up any future matches. Sure, dude got a 'mania main event when he was in the Bloodline, but now he isn't, it looks very likely that the dude is going to end up as a face with a reputation for not being able to get the job done. That is worse than being one half of the companies top tag team. None of that argument really checks out. And that crowd was dead for Shayna-Rousey, they were not even close to dead for the main event. It’s also presupposing things that have yet to happen, like Jey not being taken seriously by the audience in the future.
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schma
Hank Scorpio
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Post by schma on Aug 7, 2023 18:10:19 GMT -5
We still haven't seen where the Usos will land if they every actually leave the bloodline for real. Right now, Jey's biggest success as a singles competitor was 3 years ago. That's been largely forgotten after all the times he teased turning on Roman only to bitch out and fall in line. He's not presented as anywhere near Roman's level. It's possible though that hey may have a genuinely good solo career. We saw flashes of what he could do years ago when the Bloodline story started. That said, I think it's too early to say whether the Usos will really be in a better position post bloodline if the bloodline story ever ends.
Right now, I'd argue that Sami is about the only one to have been proven to have benefitted from association/interaction with the bloodline and even then management doesn't see him as a main event talent.
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Post by avenger on Aug 7, 2023 18:28:18 GMT -5
Saturday was the first televised title defence since Wrestlemania. With Lashley turning heel, the only babyface on Smackdown that you could realistically face Roman (outide of the bloodline) is AJ Styles. This storyline can't carry on until Wrestlemania without massively losing steam, and nullifying every bit of progress possible.
The only logical endings to this storyline are Jey, Jimmy or Solo beating him for the title. Jimmy can't be trusted with his DUI issues, and Solo hasn't shown how he can carry a feud, and would be too big a risk. The best scenario right now is for Jey to beat Roman the next time we see him (next Saudi show?), gets a trial run with the title with Roman out of the picture, and keeps the title for a couple of months, before he loses it to whoever Cody beats for the title at WM40 (Lashley?)
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Fade
Patti Mayonnaise
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Post by Fade on Aug 7, 2023 18:33:28 GMT -5
Saturday was the first televised title defence since Wrestlemania. With Lashley turning heel, the only babyface on Smackdown that you could realistically face Roman (outide of the bloodline) is AJ Styles. This storyline can't carry on until Wrestlemania without massively losing steam, and nullifying every bit of progress possible. The only logical endings to this storyline are Jey, Jimmy or Solo beating him for the title. Jimmy can't be trusted with his DUI issues, and Solo hasn't shown how he can carry a feud, and would be too big a risk. The best scenario right now is for Jey to beat Roman the next time we see him (next Saudi show?), gets a trial run with the title with Roman out of the picture, and keeps the title for a couple of months, before he loses it to whoever Cody beats for the title at WM40 (Lashley?)
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Post by Jindrak Mark on Aug 7, 2023 18:35:15 GMT -5
We still haven't seen where the Usos will land if they every actually leave the bloodline for real. Right now, Jey's biggest success as a singles competitor was 3 years ago. That's been largely forgotten after all the times he teased turning on Roman only to bitch out and fall in line. He's not presented as anywhere near Roman's level. It's possible though that hey may have a genuinely good solo career. We saw flashes of what he could do years ago when the Bloodline story started. That said, I think it's too early to say whether the Usos will really be in a better position post bloodline if the bloodline story ever ends. Right now, I'd argue that Sami is about the only one to have been proven to have benefitted from association/interaction with the bloodline and even then management doesn't see him as a main event talent. Do you think without the Bloodline Jey has key spots in the main events of Survivor Series, Royal Rumble, Wrestlemania, Night of Champions, Money in the Bank and Summerslam all in under a year? Do you think he's a bigger or lesser draw/merch seller than he was? Do you think Jey Uso (in real life not the character) thinks he was better off 4 years ago and isn't happy with the Bloodlone related stuff? I feel like I'm being gaslit here lol. Like some things are opinions and some are just facts. I didn't even think it was up for debate that Jey Uso is a much bigger star now than he was pre-Bloodline. Like he's going to be carrying Smackdown as the top face against his brother over the next few months ago when the same feud a few years ago would have been a midcard feud. The Bloodline is what took it to the point that it's hot enough to carry the show and draw numbers.
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jhbboy198917
Dennis Stamp
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Post by jhbboy198917 on Aug 7, 2023 18:35:46 GMT -5
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jhbboy198917
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Post by jhbboy198917 on Aug 7, 2023 18:37:31 GMT -5
We still haven't seen where the Usos will land if they every actually leave the bloodline for real. Right now, Jey's biggest success as a singles competitor was 3 years ago. That's been largely forgotten after all the times he teased turning on Roman only to bitch out and fall in line. He's not presented as anywhere near Roman's level. It's possible though that hey may have a genuinely good solo career. We saw flashes of what he could do years ago when the Bloodline story started. That said, I think it's too early to say whether the Usos will really be in a better position post bloodline if the bloodline story ever ends. Right now, I'd argue that Sami is about the only one to have been proven to have benefitted from association/interaction with the bloodline and even then management doesn't see him as a main event talent. Do you think without the Bloodline Jey has key spots in the main events of Survivor Series, Royal Rumble, Wrestlemania, Night of Champions, Money in the Bank and Summerslam all in under a year? Do you think he's a bigger or lesser draw/merch seller than he was? Do you think Jey Uso (in real life not the character) thinks he was better off 4 years ago and isn't happy with the Bloodlone related stuff? I feel like I'm being gaslit here lol. Like some things are opinions and some are just facts. I didn't even think it was up for debate that Jey Uso is a much bigger star now than he was pre-Bloodline. Like he's going to be carrying Smackdown as the top face against his brother over the next few months ago when the same feud a few years ago would have been a midcard feud. The Bloodline is what took it to the point that it's hot enough to carry the show and draw numbers. Some people I feel like are letting their hate of the Bloodline story cloud their judgement
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deezy
Don Corleone
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Post by deezy on Aug 7, 2023 18:57:17 GMT -5
Do you think without the Bloodline Jey has key spots in the main events of Survivor Series, Royal Rumble, Wrestlemania, Night of Champions, Money in the Bank and Summerslam all in under a year? Do you think he's a bigger or lesser draw/merch seller than he was? Do you think Jey Uso (in real life not the character) thinks he was better off 4 years ago and isn't happy with the Bloodlone related stuff? I feel like I'm being gaslit here lol. Like some things are opinions and some are just facts. I didn't even think it was up for debate that Jey Uso is a much bigger star now than he was pre-Bloodline. Like he's going to be carrying Smackdown as the top face against his brother over the next few months ago when the same feud a few years ago would have been a midcard feud. The Bloodline is what took it to the point that it's hot enough to carry the show and draw numbers. Some people I feel like are letting their hate of the Bloodline story cloud their judgement Absolutely this 💯
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Sparkybob
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Post by Sparkybob on Aug 8, 2023 1:11:53 GMT -5
Do you think without the Bloodline Jey has key spots in the main events of Survivor Series, Royal Rumble, Wrestlemania, Night of Champions, Money in the Bank and Summerslam all in under a year? Do you think he's a bigger or lesser draw/merch seller than he was? Do you think Jey Uso (in real life not the character) thinks he was better off 4 years ago and isn't happy with the Bloodlone related stuff? I feel like I'm being gaslit here lol. Like some things are opinions and some are just facts. I didn't even think it was up for debate that Jey Uso is a much bigger star now than he was pre-Bloodline. Like he's going to be carrying Smackdown as the top face against his brother over the next few months ago when the same feud a few years ago would have been a midcard feud. The Bloodline is what took it to the point that it's hot enough to carry the show and draw numbers. Some people I feel like are letting their hate of the Bloodline story cloud their judgement Yea whether you like something or not is perfectly fine but I fail to see an argument that the Uso/Solo/Sami are worse off with their association. It's kind of similar to me how some might minimize the business and the overness of the bloodlines stuff by almost implying that by giving other storylines more time they can draw at a similar rate. Which I find quite unbelievable tbh.
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schma
Hank Scorpio
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Post by schma on Aug 8, 2023 2:37:38 GMT -5
We still haven't seen where the Usos will land if they every actually leave the bloodline for real. Right now, Jey's biggest success as a singles competitor was 3 years ago. That's been largely forgotten after all the times he teased turning on Roman only to bitch out and fall in line. He's not presented as anywhere near Roman's level. It's possible though that hey may have a genuinely good solo career. We saw flashes of what he could do years ago when the Bloodline story started. That said, I think it's too early to say whether the Usos will really be in a better position post bloodline if the bloodline story ever ends. Right now, I'd argue that Sami is about the only one to have been proven to have benefitted from association/interaction with the bloodline and even then management doesn't see him as a main event talent. Do you think without the Bloodline Jey has key spots in the main events of Survivor Series, Royal Rumble, Wrestlemania, Night of Champions, Money in the Bank and Summerslam all in under a year? Do you think he's a bigger or lesser draw/merch seller than he was? Do you think Jey Uso (in real life not the character) thinks he was better off 4 years ago and isn't happy with the Bloodlone related stuff? I feel like I'm being gaslit here lol. Like some things are opinions and some are just facts. I didn't even think it was up for debate that Jey Uso is a much bigger star now than he was pre-Bloodline. Like he's going to be carrying Smackdown as the top face against his brother over the next few months ago when the same feud a few years ago would have been a midcard feud. The Bloodline is what took it to the point that it's hot enough to carry the show and draw numbers. I'm not gaslighting.
It's clear that we're coming from very different views that are incompatible. Sometimes I feel like there's some kool-aid I missed drinking when people praise this story like it's the second coming of Shakespeare and anyone who has ever faced the bloodline or been associated has been elevated to the top of Everest. That's hyperbole, but it honestly feels like that is what I'm seeing sometimes.
There have been some genuinely excellent moments in the bloodline story. What I'm simply saying is that while yes the Uso's have enjoyed a year of prominence thanks to this, that's no guarantee that they don't fall right back to where they started if the Bloodline ever actually breaks up. We've seen it before, people rise up briefly and then get smacked right back to where they were on the card. Jey has the most potential in my mind of the three brothers to maintain a higher level post bloodline, but it's not a guaranteed thing.
I keep seeing insistence that the Usos feuding is now a main event feud. That's fine, it's great for them. That doesn't mean that Jimmy turning on Jey makes any sense, especially when he didn't also lay out the two guys who put him in a hospital. Jealousy doesn't magically make that disappear and is a pretty weak crutch if that's what they go with for his motivation.
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Post by Treklubj on Aug 8, 2023 7:30:52 GMT -5
Some people I feel like are letting their hate of the Bloodline story cloud their judgement Yea whether you like something or not is perfectly fine but I fail to see an argument that the Uso/Solo/Sami are worse off with their association. It's kind of similar to me how some might minimize the business and the overness of the bloodlines stuff by almost implying that by giving other storylines more time they can draw at a similar rate. Which I find quite unbelievable tbh. There has always been a strong expression of this type of an opinion on the internet when it comes to wrestling. My favorite ones were probably the idea that anybody could have gotten over the way Shane McMahon and Jeff Hardy did if given the same high spots. This of course assumed that these spots weren't those performer's ideas and also that there were a bunch of people lining up to jump off balconies, get thrown off Titan Trons and suplexed through glass. Choosing Sheamus, as was done in another thread, as an avatar for this and making him the hero here for speaking out is a little odd, though. For one, I'm old enough to remember when so many people thought he was boring as hell and only had his spot because he worked out with Triple H. For real though, it's kinda ridiculous to think he could do the same business as the Bloodline if only given the time. Left to his own devices, Roman came back with the Head of the Table, elevevated a bunch of other people and gets entire arena to throw their fingers in the air. Sheamus, when given creative freedom, came out looking like a road guy for a 70s punk band and got a "You look stupid" chant. His current character is tough guy who has good matches. Sheamus could get a segment every week where he does his work out show (the most entertaining thing he's done, in my opinion) and he's not getting over or affecting business like the Bloodline. Someone said in one of these threads that people's individual hate of the story is clouding judgment. That seems accurate.
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Post by polarbearpete on Aug 8, 2023 8:14:47 GMT -5
Do you think without the Bloodline Jey has key spots in the main events of Survivor Series, Royal Rumble, Wrestlemania, Night of Champions, Money in the Bank and Summerslam all in under a year? Do you think he's a bigger or lesser draw/merch seller than he was? Do you think Jey Uso (in real life not the character) thinks he was better off 4 years ago and isn't happy with the Bloodlone related stuff? I feel like I'm being gaslit here lol. Like some things are opinions and some are just facts. I didn't even think it was up for debate that Jey Uso is a much bigger star now than he was pre-Bloodline. Like he's going to be carrying Smackdown as the top face against his brother over the next few months ago when the same feud a few years ago would have been a midcard feud. The Bloodline is what took it to the point that it's hot enough to carry the show and draw numbers. I'm not gaslighting.
It's clear that we're coming from very different views that are incompatible. Sometimes I feel like there's some kool-aid I missed drinking when people praise this story like it's the second coming of Shakespeare and anyone who has ever faced the bloodline or been associated has been elevated to the top of Everest. That's hyperbole, but it honestly feels like that is what I'm seeing sometimes.
There have been some genuinely excellent moments in the bloodline story. What I'm simply saying is that while yes the Uso's have enjoyed a year of prominence thanks to this, that's no guarantee that they don't fall right back to where they started if the Bloodline ever actually breaks up. We've seen it before, people rise up briefly and then get smacked right back to where they were on the card. Jey has the most potential in my mind of the three brothers to maintain a higher level post bloodline, but it's not a guaranteed thing.
I keep seeing insistence that the Usos feuding is now a main event feud. That's fine, it's great for them. That doesn't mean that Jimmy turning on Jey makes any sense, especially when he didn't also lay out the two guys who put him in a hospital. Jealousy doesn't magically make that disappear and is a pretty weak crutch if that's what they go with for his motivation.
Jey has been elevated from where he was for 3 years and counting already. If this goes another 6 months to a year with him as a singles star and then he ends up back to where he was 4 years prior, he was still elevated by the angle. You can’t just throw out the actual time he spent on top when it’s been years and years.
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Post by BlahBlah on Aug 8, 2023 14:01:03 GMT -5
Do you think without the Bloodline Jey has key spots in the main events of Survivor Series, Royal Rumble, Wrestlemania, Night of Champions, Money in the Bank and Summerslam all in under a year? Do you think he's a bigger or lesser draw/merch seller than he was? Do you think Jey Uso (in real life not the character) thinks he was better off 4 years ago and isn't happy with the Bloodlone related stuff? I feel like I'm being gaslit here lol. Like some things are opinions and some are just facts. I didn't even think it was up for debate that Jey Uso is a much bigger star now than he was pre-Bloodline. Like he's going to be carrying Smackdown as the top face against his brother over the next few months ago when the same feud a few years ago would have been a midcard feud. The Bloodline is what took it to the point that it's hot enough to carry the show and draw numbers. Some people I feel like are letting their hate of the Bloodline story cloud their judgement Absolutely freaking this. We all feel how we feel and it's all good so if you're not enjoying the story then so be it. But goodness it is still incredibly insanely over. The WWE is right to ride this thing until the wheels freaking fall off. It would be malpractice not too. Nobody at Ford Field thought Jey was winning but that didn't stop them from marking hard for his entrance and getting caught up in a couple of near falls. That was nearly 4.5 hours into a show as well. Cool if you hate the story but they'd be crazy to not continue telling it for a little while longer.
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