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Post by Denny Zen is Cooking™ on Nov 26, 2023 10:55:50 GMT -5
I could be wrong but my personal opinion is that Punk to WWE is going to have roughly 0 appreciable impact on AEW in any way. Punk leaving was a blow, but Punk showing up in WWE literally doesn’t matter in the slightest. AEW is in a viewership slump right now, and very likely at or near the floor of its weekly viewership. The most passionate AEW fans aren’t going to stop watching AEW just because Punk went crawling back to WWE. The people still watching AEW are glad he’s gone. I do think if Punk and WWE make the marriage work, it's not the best optics for AEW Sure, it’ll add fuel to the “AEW is a third rate outlaw mudshow run by a money mark that doesn’t know how to operate a successful business” fire and that will be great for the Jim Cornettes of the world. And there’s no denying that Punk is still an asset to a pro wrestling company when he isn’t behaving like a toddler, so it will benefit WWE’s programming, too. I just don’t think it will have any appreciable impact on AEW, “optics” aside. Everyone who cares about “optics” already very vocally thinks that AEW is a minor league WWE wannabe. I sincerely don’t think there are many AEW fans who are going to be like “welp, Punk is on his best behavior in WWE. Tony Khan obviously can’t control his locker room. Guess I’m going to watch WWE now.”
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tenshi
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Post by tenshi on Nov 26, 2023 10:58:51 GMT -5
I think this could be a good chance for AEW to prioritize developing and creating their own stars with homegrown talent instead of finding them through free agency. AEW has a faithful audience and, while they might not mind the Ospreays, Copelands, Whites and Monés of life coming over and being pushed hard, that might make homegrown talent look as less than by comparison.
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Kalmia
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Post by Kalmia on Nov 26, 2023 10:59:32 GMT -5
No idea what difference Punk will make but do think it's amusing the credit WWE are getting for employing an unemployed man, a guy who they laughed at AEW for having ("he's their problem now"), a guy AEW fired. It was a surprise to many because they denied he was going to be there but the "AEW can't top this!" shouts have been so weird because like...they had Punk. We've already seen him come back from his long absence, cut unscripted promos, work loads of matches and even have some creative control, there's not a lot interesting that WWE can do with him, him being back there after all this time is really only interesting if you haven't watched his AEW run or think WWE is the only game in town. For some people this is an emotional moment and he's back "home" after however many years he was gone, for me I saw him in the flesh in London a few months ago, the novelty would be long gone even if I had the desire to watch WWE regularly again. It wouldn't surprise me if current trends continued though and WWE's viewing figures went up even more, the reaction to their product and the way I see it are worlds apart, I still think they're a vastly inferior wrestling company to AEW in almost every area, but that's not the current narrative and it's unlikely to change soon. Either way, time will tell how wise it is employing a known locker room trouble maker when you're "red hot" and in a period of harmony, being conveniently ignored AEW only went into a period of being less hot largely because of Punk. Funnily enough, Punk came into AEW when their ratings were already trending up and Dynamite was getting the highest ratings it'd ever had. Punk knows how to pick his times so that it looks like he's the sole reason for it.
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Post by Final Countdown Jones on Nov 26, 2023 11:01:47 GMT -5
I do think if Punk and WWE make the marriage work, it's not the best optics for AEW Sure, it’ll add fuel to the “AEW is a third rate outlaw mudshow run by a money mark that doesn’t know how to operate a successful business” fire and that will be great for the Jim Cornettes of the world. And there’s no denying that Punk is still an asset to a pro wrestling company when he isn’t behaving like a toddler, so it will benefit WWE’s programming, too. I just don’t think it will have any appreciable impact on AEW, “optics” aside. Everyone who cares about “optics” already very vocally thinks that AEW is a minor league WWE wannabe. I sincerely don’t think there are many AEW fans who are going to be like “welp, Punk is on his best behavior in WWE. Tony Khan obviously can’t control his locker room. Guess I’m going to watch WWE now.” The people who are already right now going "TK FUMBLED THE BAG OVER BRANDON CUTLER AND JUNGLE BOY" are going to believe what they want to believe regardless of what's even real so they're not really a segment worth sweating over. If the line of "CM Punk didn't respect AEW and felt nobody there was a big star so he could do what he wanted" passes the sniff test for people who want to say it's proof AEW isn't deserving of respect and has no stars, then they're free to do that. Everyone who thinks you shouldn't be able to punch people less famous than you will keep on living in reality. The well is so thoroughly poisoned at this point that the rocks are throwing up, Punk could throw hands at Raw on Monday and it's not going to make anyone change their tune about AEW.
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Johnny Flamingo
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Post by Johnny Flamingo on Nov 26, 2023 11:01:55 GMT -5
Product wise everyone's gonna have a different opinion depending on what they like. However, they absolutely need to get their shit together backstage. TK sat there and allowed Punk to burn his company down at the scrum, then he gave him and other troublemakers their own show, and then allowed him to have power beyond that of a regular talent, to the point that he was blocking people with actual power from entering shows. It shouldn't have taken a choking for TK to put a stop to all of this. In other words, it's not the product or creative I fear, it's the inner workings of a company that sits there and allows this to happen. I’ve wondered how much all of this effected the Young Bucks. First, Cody left. While they have supported him it had to sting a little. Then Punk comes in and absolutely embarrasses them publicly only to get ultimately rewarded for it. Jay Briscoe passes away during all of this and they’ve always pushed for the Briscoes. Add in the amount of personal hate directed at them and it had to be brutal for them. Seeing them end BTE and take time off makes me wonder how bad this all hurt them seeing their vision essentially come apart. To the original point of the thread. I think it’s crunch time in AEW needs to find its identity again and TK has to reign things in backstage. If any others are feeling like Punk did he needs to let them go. I do thing AEW is the better product and I think some have been successful convincing people AEW is much worse than it is. I think a lot if the perceived troubles are false narratives (AEW being ice cold, the locker room not having “structure”, overreaction to crowds and ratings). I do think some or purposefully driving a false narrative.
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Post by Final Countdown Jones on Nov 26, 2023 11:07:52 GMT -5
No idea what difference Punk will make but do think it's amusing the credit WWE are getting for employing an unemployed man, a guy who they laughed at AEW for having ("he's their problem now"), a guy AEW fired. It was a surprise to many because they denied he was going to be there but the "AEW can't top this!" shouts have been so weird because like...they had Punk. We've already seen him come back from his long absence, cut unscripted promos, work loads of matches and even have some creative control, there's not a lot interesting that WWE can do with him, him being back there after all this time is really only interesting if you haven't watched his AEW run or think WWE is the only game in town. For some people this is an emotional moment and he's back "home" after however many years he was gone, for me I saw him in the flesh in London a few months ago, the novelty would be long gone even if I had the desire to watch WWE regularly again. Cody in WWE has been interesting to watch from a distance because he's done really well and the WWE audience bites on his ideas a lot more willingly than the AEW crowd does. I think there's something to be said for him getting a fresh start on his face run away from the baggage he booked onto himself in AEW and having someone who could rein him in just a little bit more so he doesn't get too up his own ass and get the crowd to turn on him. It let him reboot his ideas and try them in front of an audience that responds better to the specific kind of face that Cody wants to be. There's an idea there. I don't think that same idea comes around with Punk in WWE because there was already so much Pure CM Punk Time where he did his thing and it was well received. I didn't even like a lot of it. I thought the All Out 2021 go-home build was cornball shit nonsense. I completely misread the entire setup and thought every feud other than the MJF one but even maybe the MJF one was a slow burn heel turn. But he got that time. He did his stuff. It went over well. He's only able to do CM Punk stuff. I'm sure with Vince gone he'll be a bit less constrained than he might've been a few years ago. Neat. It's still only going to be CM Punk stuff and it's not going to reach the height of the MJF story for damn sure. That's not to say it's not worth trying, but the tone about to follow that AEW mishandled Punk when Punk was Punking all over the place for two years is going to absolutely be horseshit.
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Kalmia
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Post by Kalmia on Nov 26, 2023 11:14:28 GMT -5
Product wise everyone's gonna have a different opinion depending on what they like. However, they absolutely need to get their shit together backstage. TK sat there and allowed Punk to burn his company down at the scrum, then he gave him and other troublemakers their own show, and then allowed him to have power beyond that of a regular talent, to the point that he was blocking people with actual power from entering shows. It shouldn't have taken a choking for TK to put a stop to all of this. In other words, it's not the product or creative I fear, it's the inner workings of a company that sits there and allows this to happen. I’ve wondered how much all of this effected the Young Bucks. First, Cody left. While they have supported him it had to sting a little. Then Punk comes in and absolutely embarrasses them publicly only to get ultimately rewarded for it. Jay Briscoe passes away during all of this and they’ve always pushed for the Briscoes. Add in the amount of personal hate directed at them and it had to be brutal for them. Seeing them end BTE and take time off makes me wonder how bad this all hurt them seeing their vision essentially come apart. To the original point of the thread. I think it’s crunch time in AEW needs to find its identity again and TK has to reign things in backstage. If any others are feeling like Punk did he needs to let them go. I do thing AEW is the better product and I think some have been successful convincing people AEW is much worse than it is. I think a lot if the perceived troubles are false narratives (AEW being ice cold, the locker room not having “structure”, overreaction to crowds and ratings). I do think some or purposefully driving a false narrative. I do think the Bucks have had some of their enthusiasm knocked out of them. Other than for the trios best of 7 against Death Triangle, they really haven't done much of note since coming back. Omega seems to have taken everything in his stride much more easily.
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Post by Denny Zen is Cooking™ on Nov 26, 2023 11:14:52 GMT -5
Product wise everyone's gonna have a different opinion depending on what they like. However, they absolutely need to get their shit together backstage. TK sat there and allowed Punk to burn his company down at the scrum, then he gave him and other troublemakers their own show, and then allowed him to have power beyond that of a regular talent, to the point that he was blocking people with actual power from entering shows. It shouldn't have taken a choking for TK to put a stop to all of this. In other words, it's not the product or creative I fear, it's the inner workings of a company that sits there and allows this to happen. I’ve wondered how much all of this effected the Young Bucks. First, Cody left. While they have supported him it had to sting a little. Then Punk comes in and absolutely embarrasses them publicly only to get ultimately rewarded for it. Jay Briscoe passes away during all of this and they’ve always pushed for the Briscoes. Add in the amount of personal hate directed at them and it had to be brutal for them. Seeing them end BTE and take time off makes me wonder how bad this all hurt them seeing their vision essentially come apart. To the original point of the thread. I think it’s crunch time in AEW needs to find its identity again and TK has to reign things in backstage. If any others are feeling like Punk did he needs to let them go. I do thing AEW is the better product and I think some have been successful convincing people AEW is much worse than it is. I think a lot if the perceived troubles are false narratives (AEW being ice cold, the locker room not having “structure”, overreaction to crowds and ratings). I do think some or purposefully driving a false narrative. Outwardly, it’s hard to fathom that all of this hasn’t, at the very least, soured the Bucks’ relationship with Tony Khan. That said, they were willing to sign a new deal with AEW (when them, Omega, and/or Hangman signing with WWE would have been the signing that could have ACTUALLY hurt AEW’s core viewership, so there was absolutely interest). It also feels like there’s been a lot of revisionist history on the Punk/Bucks thing. The Wimbledon Cult over on X acts like the Bucks did everything in their power to make life miserable for Punk from the moment he set foot in the door and basically forced him out by constantly goading him into snapping. But that really isn’t true. Shit, Punk specifically mentioned the Bucks as people he was excited about working with when he first got to AEW. I wouldn’t be surprised if they actually advocated for him coming in, and are more irritated about ending up with egg on their face over it as much as anything.
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J is Justice
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Post by J is Justice on Nov 26, 2023 11:14:59 GMT -5
Literally, all I want is two women's matches a show.
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Johnny Flamingo
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Post by Johnny Flamingo on Nov 26, 2023 11:16:50 GMT -5
[but the tone about to follow that AEW mishandled Punk when Punk was Punking all over the place for two years is going to absolutely be horseshit. I’m hoping this causes both sides to move on and direct the gate away from AEW. It does stink seeing the most negative anti AEW voices in pro wrestling having a victory lap with this.
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Dub H
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Post by Dub H on Nov 26, 2023 11:21:29 GMT -5
I know some people take issue with saying this, but AEW isnt very AEW anymore. They really need to cut the fat from their product and focus on the core
They arent the WWE that can afford to have 100 meaningless segments that have no appeal.
Not counting the absolutely public perception fiasco since Punk was hired. With a few non-Punk related issues along the way.
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Zone Was Wrong
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
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Post by Zone Was Wrong on Nov 26, 2023 11:23:18 GMT -5
Literally, all I want is two women's matches a show. Literally me as well.
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Kalmia
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Post by Kalmia on Nov 26, 2023 11:24:32 GMT -5
I’ve wondered how much all of this effected the Young Bucks. First, Cody left. While they have supported him it had to sting a little. Then Punk comes in and absolutely embarrasses them publicly only to get ultimately rewarded for it. Jay Briscoe passes away during all of this and they’ve always pushed for the Briscoes. Add in the amount of personal hate directed at them and it had to be brutal for them. Seeing them end BTE and take time off makes me wonder how bad this all hurt them seeing their vision essentially come apart. To the original point of the thread. I think it’s crunch time in AEW needs to find its identity again and TK has to reign things in backstage. If any others are feeling like Punk did he needs to let them go. I do thing AEW is the better product and I think some have been successful convincing people AEW is much worse than it is. I think a lot if the perceived troubles are false narratives (AEW being ice cold, the locker room not having “structure”, overreaction to crowds and ratings). I do think some or purposefully driving a false narrative. Outwardly, it’s hard to fathom that all of this hasn’t, at the very least, soured the Bucks’ relationship with Tony Khan. That said, they were willing to sign a new deal with AEW (when them, Omega, and/or Hangman signing with WWE would have been the signing that could have ACTUALLY hurt AEW’s core viewership, so there was absolutely interest). It also feels like there’s been a lot of revisionist history on the Punk/Bucks thing. The Wimbledon Cult over on X acts like the Bucks did everything in their power to make life miserable for Punk from the moment he set foot in the door and basically forced him out by constantly goading him into snapping. But that really isn’t true. Shit, Punk specifically mentioned the Bucks as people he was excited about working with when he first got to AEW. I wouldn’t be surprised if they actually advocated for him coming in, and are more irritated about ending up with egg on their face over it as much as anything. Punk posted an AEW first-year anniversary post on his Instagram on August 21, 2022 (I just checked and it's still there) and one of the photos he posted is him posing with the Bucks. He was limited to only 10 photos and he chose the Bucks to be one of the 10 literally two weeks before the scrum. https://www.instagram.com/p/ChgNoAyNQt4
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Dub H
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Post by Dub H on Nov 26, 2023 11:24:39 GMT -5
I think this could be a good chance for AEW to prioritize developing and creating their own stars with homegrown talent instead of finding them through free agency. AEW has a faithful audience and, while they might not mind the Ospreays, Copelands, Whites and Monés of life coming over and being pushed hard, that might make homegrown talent look as less than by comparison. Also. Christian was a big hit,he feels very AEW.Same with Swerve But guys like Buddy, The Whole ROH Extravaganza,Jay Lethal , Andrade. Just feels like the worst hits of another company.There is more Minus than Plus to talent coming from outside and making homegrown or more unknown talents that AEW made their own than pluses
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Post by daaave on Nov 26, 2023 11:26:45 GMT -5
I think if you judge AEW as a success or not by whether they beat WWE in ratings, revenue, attendances etc then yeah, sure WWE will dust them.
But I don't think those are the metrics which decide whether AEW are a success or not
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Dub H
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Post by Dub H on Nov 26, 2023 11:28:22 GMT -5
I think if you judge AEW as a success or not by whether they beat WWE in ratings, revenue, attendances etc then yeah, sure WWE will dust them. But I don't think those are the metrics which decide whether AEW are a success or not While I agree I think many are comparing AEW to AEW. Pre-Punk AEW was doing betterl and had a lot of hype behind it.
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Johnny Flamingo
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Post by Johnny Flamingo on Nov 26, 2023 11:34:06 GMT -5
I think this could be a good chance for AEW to prioritize developing and creating their own stars with homegrown talent instead of finding them through free agency. AEW has a faithful audience and, while they might not mind the Ospreays, Copelands, Whites and Monés of life coming over and being pushed hard, that might make homegrown talent look as less than by comparison. Also. Christian was a big hit,he feels very AEW.Same with Swerve But guys like Buddy, The Whole ROH Extravaganza,Jay Lethal , Andrade. Just feels like the worst hits of another company.There is more Minus than Plus to talent coming from outside and making homegrown or more unknown talents that AEW made their own than pluses I think Ospreay will feel more like an AEW guy as opposed to the ROH guys because he hasn’t been exposed to North American audiences as much. With his skill I can see him being a potential game changer for AEW. They have the pieces to build a credible main event scene that can do big business. (Ospreay, Jay White, MJF, Omega, Mox, Christian, Hangman, Swerve, Garcia). I think there are others who can rise up as well but AEW had the names to easily make the main event feel very much AEW. I’m really betting on Ospreay to be the missing piece. I think Hobbs could be a massive star as well.
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ASYLUMHAUSEN
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Post by ASYLUMHAUSEN on Nov 26, 2023 11:36:12 GMT -5
AEW is my favourite wrestling product I can ever recall watching and, while it could do with a lot of streamlining, getting its shit together with the women and debloating at times, it seems in a relatively comfortable position to be pro-wrestling's no. 2. Fortunately, by all accounts, this appears to be TK's goal and seems to be willing to ride that line through its highs and lows. That said, I do also belief records will be broken if the show is centered on Swerve and he becomes pro-wrestling's WHC Stringer Bell. I sort of want to see a Joe vs. Swerve feud where Joe is all old-school mob boss, "back in my day, there was honor among thieves..." and all that, and Swerve just pissing all over that with "Who cares, old man? Today, honor doesn't mean shit!", and they just go to war trying to be the bigger bastard. Prop/S] Joe vs Marlo Swerve is not something I knew I needed until today…
But yes. Yes please.
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Post by xCompackx on Nov 26, 2023 11:38:15 GMT -5
I think AEW's on the right track. There's still improvements to be made, but 2024 could be big for AEW.
Literally the only thing that could go wrong is if TK decides to make the Punk thing into a big deal. Which...... I could totally see him doing.
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Fade
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Post by Fade on Nov 26, 2023 11:38:32 GMT -5
It’s been that time, brah. Im not even going to pretend to know what the answer is, im really not. Before the big things that jumped out at me: - Consolidate the image of what AEW is. they’re sort of doing that. roh ===> developmental. Collision doesn’t help cause it’s a “main show” but whole lot of ppl ain’t watching it - Characters. Part of what killed in old AEW was characters that can go, swerve’s a prime example (only example imo for the last few months) guy with a character that wouldn’t fly in WWE that can go. Look how much HYPE he caused from full gear. Look how it was followed up - a 20 minute tournament wrassling match with Jay By Gawd Lethal. - hand f***ing creative to someone with a unique vision. and damn sure not anybody that’s been helping him lately. He’s never going to do that tho. Product wise everyone's gonna have a different opinion depending on what they like. However, they absolutely need to get their shit together backstage. TK sat there and allowed Punk to burn his company down at the scrum, then he gave him and other troublemakers their own show, and then allowed him to have power beyond that of a regular talent, to the point that he was blocking people with actual power from entering shows. It shouldn't have taken a choking for TK to put a stop to all of this. In other words, it's not the product or creative I fear, it's the inner workings of a company that sits there and allows this to happen. I’ve wondered how much all of this effected the Young Bucks. First, Cody left. While they have supported him it had to sting a little. Then Punk comes in and absolutely embarrasses them publicly only to get ultimately rewarded for it. Jay Briscoe passes away during all of this and they’ve always pushed for the Briscoes. Add in the amount of personal hate directed at them and it had to be brutal for them. Seeing them end BTE and take time off makes me wonder how bad this all hurt them seeing their vision essentially come apart. To the original point of the thread. I think it’s crunch time in AEW needs to find its identity again and TK has to reign things in backstage. If any others are feeling like Punk did he needs to let them go. I do thing AEW is the better product and I think some have been successful convincing people AEW is much worse than it is. I think a lot if the perceived troubles are false narratives (AEW being ice cold, the locker room not having “structure”, overreaction to crowds and ratings). I do think some or purposefully driving a false narrative. Think they’ll be fine. they’re set for life. Top paid tag team, changed the business etc. it is possibly all this has stung em. Iono. AEW can be the better product. My last rec time of the year. Want to make this count. I earnestly recommend you walk away from this niche altogether, It will only hurt you over and over and in the worst ways possible. It caused me to have a complete nervous breakdown, I don't want that for anyone else. To answer your question. No, You cannot dust dust. Yo this ominous AF. Fans gotta chill too lol
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