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Post by Doo Doo Dickhead on Nov 26, 2023 12:31:00 GMT -5
My last rec time of the year. Want to make this count. I earnestly recommend you walk away from this niche altogether, It will only hurt you over and over and in the worst ways possible. It caused me to have a complete nervous breakdown, I don't want that for anyone else. To answer your question. No, You cannot dust dust. Dude, you seriously need to talk to someone or something. It's pro wrestling; it's not that big a deal. I really hope it's just a gimmick.
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Post by HMARK Center on Nov 26, 2023 12:33:13 GMT -5
Tony repeatedly made himself like a jackass with his handling of the punk situations and by extension made his promotion a laughingstock. WWE has gained a recognized name that is at least going to move some merch. If he ends up going nuclear for them too, I expect WWE to at least handle it better than Tony did. This is LOLAEW territory. LOLAEW would be if they never fired Punk. And yeah, echoing others here, false narratives have absolutely drowned out just about any reasonable (or even enjoyable) discussion there is to have about AEW for months now.
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Post by Some Guy on Nov 26, 2023 12:33:13 GMT -5
I'm not sure how AEW doesn't feel like an alternative in a week where they've signed Will Ospreay but said he'll still be able to work New Japan, started a Round Robin Tournament and had an absolute bloodbath between Swerve and Hangman, all things that would never happen in WWE. It's a very clear alternative to me. Toni feels like a weird shout as being WWE-lite as well, no idea what WWE's humour is like now but it always used to be abysmal, Toni has been hilarious...and over. You can have a variety show of good things and still be buried by stuff like MJF's soul draining title reign or the neverending Kenny Omega/Don Callis feud. And that shot at Toni was basically Tony needlessly hotshotted the title back onto her at an insanely quick pace and right now she's just doing gimmick work stuff. That didn't need the title backing behind it, it could have been separate if Tony could coherently build the women's division. Though I suppose this is all part of the fact that Tony abandoned the initial Joshi connection he could have rebuilt post COVID and has now been completely lapped on that part by the WWE.
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Chiral
Salacious Crumb
Posts: 74,120
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Post by Chiral on Nov 26, 2023 12:37:47 GMT -5
I think they've done a good job recuperating post Punk and despite what others think I do think they've been getting closer to that classic AEW spark back.
I also think the "WWE is white hot, AEW is ice cold" tone pretty much across internet wrestling chat has killed my interest in talking wrestling, even what feels like 60% of this entire forum to me when it's not a ghost town. It feels like so many discussions around here are just like "AEW is WWE lite shit now ratings bad business business bush league for letting the guy that kept assaulting people go to the competition" and people repeating that like we're Hank Hill and the boys going "Yep" "Yep" "Yep" "Mmhm." It just feels like parroting the same meme criticisms over and over that I don't even agree with and think some are hilariously over exaggerated.
I realize I'm being so whiny but it's just not fun to talk wrestling anymore and I dunno what to do sometimes.
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Moppy
Samurai Cop
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Post by Moppy on Nov 26, 2023 12:40:45 GMT -5
Something I don’t think can be overlooked is how Vince’s ousting has changed the perception of WWE and perhaps indirectly the perception of AEW, too.
AEW is far from doomed, but their position as the opposition, the alternative, the *sanity*, to the mind-numbing Vince-isms of WWE’s programming, is now gone.
They’re still different - but for the busy wrestling fan who doesn’t have the bandwidth for 5 hours of wrestling programming per week, these fans may be inclined for nostalgic reasons to give another chance to WWE, now it’s in the hands of the man who booked the heights of NXT 2015-2019. If the biggest game in town (pardon the pun) is putting on more coherent, more enjoyable programming then of course it becomes harder for #2 to move the needle.
These aren’t signs of impending doom for TK, but perhaps a small creative refresh is in order.
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dpg
Samurai Cop
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Post by dpg on Nov 26, 2023 12:41:39 GMT -5
AEW is completely fine in its core business, but some of its attempts to branch out have stumbled (Collision) and others have been outright failures (fight forever). That plus the fumbling of the CM Punk situation (not firing him, launching a new show with him as the face of it, then being forced to fire him which badly affected the new show) have left AEW with an impression of backstage fumbles. WWE have also pulled ahead to an extent that seems to irk Tony (his whiny rant when Dynamite lost to NXT, totally unnecessary). All of that equals uncertainty, but AEW is ok. Unless its making big losses we don't know about.
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Post by Hypnosis on Nov 26, 2023 12:42:33 GMT -5
Something I don’t think can be overlooked is how Vince’s ousting has changed the perception of WWE and perhaps indirectly the perception of AEW, too. AEW is far from doomed, but their position as the opposition, the alternative, the *sanity*, to the mind-numbing Vince-isms of WWE’s programming, is now gone. They’re still different - but for the busy wrestling fan who doesn’t have the bandwidth for 5 hours of wrestling programming per week, these fans may be inclined for nostalgic reasons to give another chance to WWE, now it’s in the hands of the man who booked the heights of NXT 2015-2019. If the biggest game in town (pardon the pun) is putting on more coherent, more enjoyable programming then of course it becomes harder for #2 to move the needle. These aren’t signs of impending doom for TK, but perhaps a small creative refresh is in order. One of the first steps should be less Woo Energy advertising.
It's an eyesore.
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Zone Was Wrong
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Currently living off the high that AEW brings every Wednesday and Friday
Posts: 16,377
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Post by Zone Was Wrong on Nov 26, 2023 12:45:55 GMT -5
Something I don’t think can be overlooked is how Vince’s ousting has changed the perception of WWE and perhaps indirectly the perception of AEW, too. AEW is far from doomed, but their position as the opposition, the alternative, the *sanity*, to the mind-numbing Vince-isms of WWE’s programming, is now gone. They’re still different - but for the busy wrestling fan who doesn’t have the bandwidth for 5 hours of wrestling programming per week, these fans may be inclined for nostalgic reasons to give another chance to WWE, now it’s in the hands of the man who booked the heights of NXT 2015-2019. If the biggest game in town (pardon the pun) is putting on more coherent, more enjoyable programming then of course it becomes harder for #2 to move the needle. These aren’t signs of impending doom for TK, but perhaps a small creative refresh is in order. One of the first steps should be less Woo Energy advertising.
It's an eyesore.
Kinda hard to do since they signed a contract for it. Probably a part of the contract terms.
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Post by Dr. Bolty, Disaster Enby on Nov 26, 2023 12:49:35 GMT -5
I think they've done a good job recuperating post Punk and despite what others think I do think they've been getting closer to that classic AEW spark back. I also think the "WWE is white hot, AEW is ice cold" tone pretty much across internet wrestling chat has killed my interest in talking wrestling, even what feels like 60% of this entire forum to me when it's not a ghost town. It feels like so many discussions around here are just like "AEW is WWE lite shit now ratings bad business business bush league for letting the guy that kept assaulting people go to the competition" and people repeating that like we're Hank Hill and the boys going "Yep" "Yep" "Yep" "Mmhm." It just feels like parroting the same meme criticisms over and over that I don't even agree with and think some are hilariously over exaggerated. I realize I'm being so whiny but it's just not fun to talk wrestling anymore and I dunno what to do sometimes. It feels especially frustrating because like...to my perception, AEW TV is fine. There's stuff I'll complain about, but there was stuff I complained about when it was at its hottest, y'know? I've always accepted AEW as the wrestling that I'm enjoying right now, not some kind of savior of wrestling or revolutionary change in the business. And it's continued to serve me fine and be very entertaining as the wrestling that I am enjoying right now.
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Post by "Cane Dewey" Johnson on Nov 26, 2023 12:53:05 GMT -5
Since the 2022 All Out scrum, I think AEW has needed to have an onscreen and behind-the-scenes "moneyball" period where Tony Khan and the company refocus and rebuild.
I still think TK needs to hire more people, better people, people who have the experience, to fill in the spots of booker, talent relations, producer/agent, etc., when he's the guy filling in a lot of the gaps. Leadership starts at the top, and sometimes that means knowing when to step aside and let other people do the day-to-day work.
The downstream effect of this would be AEW not indulging in its worst habits: tournaments, belts, inconsistent or unclear face/heel dynamics, lots of injuries, lots of hardcore/gimmick matches, too many people lost in the shuffle.
Somehow, unintentionally, I've gone "All In" on AEW. I've watched many more hours of AEW than WWE this year. Almost all the PPVs. Trying to follow at least one TV show, first Collision, then Dynamite, week-to-week. Yet, when I watch AEW, I shake my head because it reminds me of 1999 WCW or 2009 TNA instead of 2023 AEW. Nobody today should be reminded of not-so-great wrestling from 25 or 15 years ago, respectively. But it happens much more than I wish it would.
Crunch time? Maybe, maybe not. Soul searching time? There's never a bad time to do that, but with Punk making noise by returning to WWE, now is as good a time as any for TK to pause, reflect, and course correct. AEW has not hit the iceberg yet, and hopefully it never will.
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Post by daaave on Nov 26, 2023 12:58:15 GMT -5
I think they've done a good job recuperating post Punk and despite what others think I do think they've been getting closer to that classic AEW spark back. I also think the "WWE is white hot, AEW is ice cold" tone pretty much across internet wrestling chat has killed my interest in talking wrestling, even what feels like 60% of this entire forum to me when it's not a ghost town. It feels like so many discussions around here are just like "AEW is WWE lite shit now ratings bad business business bush league for letting the guy that kept assaulting people go to the competition" and people repeating that like we're Hank Hill and the boys going "Yep" "Yep" "Yep" "Mmhm." It just feels like parroting the same meme criticisms over and over that I don't even agree with and think some are hilariously over exaggerated. I realize I'm being so whiny but it's just not fun to talk wrestling anymore and I dunno what to do sometimes. Yep. Online North American wrestling discusion is just... impossible. I think this place is one of the better ones I've seen though. Mostly, the AEW section is good. You get the odd thread that you know will be a shitshow but I just stay out of them. This one for example will eventually become that shitshow no doubt. I like the product. I'd like to discuss the stuff I like about said product. Not sure why that is so hard to do for wrestling fans
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Post by kingoftheindies on Nov 26, 2023 13:03:41 GMT -5
I know some people take issue with saying this, but AEW isnt very AEW anymore. They really need to cut the fat from their product and focus on the core They arent the WWE that can afford to have 100 meaningless segments that have no appeal. Not counting the absolutely public perception fiasco since Punk was hired. With a few non-Punk related issues along the way. I do think there has been a noticeable shift on tv to add a more clear focus on titles and angles in recent months. I also think aside from the ROH tag titles, there's been more of a focus towards getting ROH belts on people that will be background characters on AEW and can be more focal points on ROH (the ROH title being the exception kind of with the Triple Crown happening) But I do think the idea that AEW got a bit too ADD with things is valid. I think you've also seen Tony take steps to fixing that with backstage hires and also adding a bunch of producers. I think that takes time to implement as well. I also think that far too often Tony signed people to sign them without having an idea of direction. I think he's gotten better with this, or at least knows what he wants to do. But again, I do agree that AEW needed better focus and are getting that way
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Post by "American Cream" Dusty Loads on Nov 26, 2023 13:06:56 GMT -5
AEW’s problem right now is it doesn’t feel like an alternative anymore IMO. There’s no logic to the story telling (mjf hurts his knee and can’t wrestle so Adam cole on crutches with a hurt knee is given the okay to wrestle in his place), titles changing hands in matches with no heat going into them (Shida drops the title to Storm in a “feud” whose build was “everything keeps turning black and white”) and just dumb angles in general (the devil, excruciating adam and Roddy skits, miro and Lana doing another “cuck” angle) it just feels like all the things that made me stop watching wwe are all over the aew shows now. I know wrestling is intrinsically silly and ridiculous, but that doesn’t mean stories don’t need logic or that lame humor isn’t still lame. I’m hoping aew can get back to what it was cuz for the first time in years, I’ve been excited about wrestling and now that excitement is fading fast.
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clifford
King Koopa
Shingo Takagi stan
Posts: 10,683
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Post by clifford on Nov 26, 2023 13:07:30 GMT -5
I must reiterate that AEW at its worst is still head and shoulders above every other major wrestling promotion in the world, for me. A bad Dynamite is still a decent show, and they deliver on PPV 9 times out of 10.
That all said, and others have said this in the thread, TK needs to accept that they are no.2, and will always be no.2, and that that is still an incredibly successful wrestling company. Instead of freaking out and trying to counter program and make it out that you're in this massive war, just focus on putting on the best shows you can put on. That's what this company was for their first 2 years, and people loved em for it.
EDIT: 100% agree that they don't feel like the alternative anymore as well. They need to get back to that. Stop trying to be something you're not.
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Post by kingoftheindies on Nov 26, 2023 13:08:12 GMT -5
I think they've done a good job recuperating post Punk and despite what others think I do think they've been getting closer to that classic AEW spark back. I also think the "WWE is white hot, AEW is ice cold" tone pretty much across internet wrestling chat has killed my interest in talking wrestling, even what feels like 60% of this entire forum to me when it's not a ghost town. It feels like so many discussions around here are just like "AEW is WWE lite shit now ratings bad business business bush league for letting the guy that kept assaulting people go to the competition" and people repeating that like we're Hank Hill and the boys going "Yep" "Yep" "Yep" "Mmhm." It just feels like parroting the same meme criticisms over and over that I don't even agree with and think some are hilariously over exaggerated. I realize I'm being so whiny but it's just not fun to talk wrestling anymore and I dunno what to do sometimes. It feels especially frustrating because like...to my perception, AEW TV is fine. There's stuff I'll complain about, but there was stuff I complained about when it was at its hottest, y'know? I've always accepted AEW as the wrestling that I'm enjoying right now, not some kind of savior of wrestling or revolutionary change in the business. And it's continued to serve me fine and be very entertaining as the wrestling that I am enjoying right now. I think Dynamite especially has been very good for months. Collision has been enjoyable but they clearly are trying to figure out what they want the show to be now that Punk is gone. I think part of the discourse is the Punk situation soured not just fans but a lot of insiders have seen their tones noticeable get sour towards AEW for how things went so I think that's where a lot of the negativity comes from in some instances.
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Kalmia
King Koopa
Happy to be here
Posts: 11,881
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Post by Kalmia on Nov 26, 2023 13:11:49 GMT -5
I must reiterate that AEW at its worst is still head and shoulders above every other major wrestling promotion in the world, for me. A bad Dynamite is still a decent show, and they deliver on PPV 9 times out of 10. That all said, and others have said this in the thread, TK needs to accept that they are no.2, and will always be no.2, and that that is still an incredibly successful wrestling company. Instead of freaking out and trying to counter program and make it out that you're in this massive war, just focus on putting on the best shows you can put on. That's what this company was for their first 2 years, and people loved em for it. EDIT: 100% agree that they don't feel like the alternative anymore as well. They need to get back to that. Stop trying to be something you're not. Absolutely. I've never bought an AEW PPV and been disappointed and even a "bad" Dynamite is typically a 6 or 7/10 in my book. AEW could be better and AEW is still good are two statements that can definitely co-exist.
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Post by firsttimelongtime on Nov 26, 2023 13:15:21 GMT -5
I could be wrong but my personal opinion is that Cody to WWE is going to have roughly 0 appreciable impact on AEW in any way. Cody leaving was a blow, but Cody showing up in WWE literally doesn’t matter in the slightest. AEW is in a viewership slump right now, and very likely at or near the floor of its weekly viewership. The most passionate AEW fans aren’t going to stop watching AEW just because Cody went crawling back to WWE. The people still watching AEW are glad he’s gone. Edited this post to make it a direct throwback to Spring 2022
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Dub H
Crow T. Robot
Captain Pixel: the Game Master
I ❤ Aniki
Posts: 47,938
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Post by Dub H on Nov 26, 2023 13:25:26 GMT -5
I must reiterate that AEW at its worst is still head and shoulders above every other major wrestling promotion in the world, for me. A bad Dynamite is still a decent show, and they deliver on PPV 9 times out of 10. That all said, and others have said this in the thread, TK needs to accept that they are no.2, and will always be no.2, and that that is still an incredibly successful wrestling company. Instead of freaking out and trying to counter program and make it out that you're in this massive war, just focus on putting on the best shows you can put on. That's what this company was for their first 2 years, and people loved em for it. EDIT: 100% agree that they don't feel like the alternative anymore as well. They need to get back to that. Stop trying to be something you're not. Absolutely. I've never bought an AEW PPV and been disappointed and even a "bad" Dynamite is typically a 6 or 7/10 in my book. AEW could be better and AEW is still good are two statements that can definitely co-exist. Even when I have been at my most negative about Dynamite I always say. The PPV will ALWAYS sell well.Because the PPV track record for AEW is absolutely f***ing amazing. Even if the storylines on TV are shit,somehow the PPV will make it work.
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Post by Gerard Gerard on Nov 26, 2023 13:26:24 GMT -5
We also have to take into consideration AEW probably would've moved on a lot sooner had Punk's status been clarified with any sort of expediency. He spent 8-9 months as a cloud over the product and another 3 stinking it up actively before he crab walked all over Jungle Boy.
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UN PLOMBIER NIGHTMARE #blm
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
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Post by UN PLOMBIER NIGHTMARE #blm on Nov 26, 2023 13:27:27 GMT -5
Shitposting mode that I’ve been in since Punk returned aside, I think what AEW needed to change hasn’t changed with him returning. When it was Vince vs Tony, you had a very clear divide with your viewers, a lot of the black and gold nxt viewers immediately switched to aew and well, that is not the case anymore. WWE is red hot, that doesn’t mean that AEW can’t be too but things do need to change.
AEW will have to get off the straight line to what TK wants no matter what because they’re not fighting some big bad evil guy anymore, or at least that’s not what you can advertise your company as. The in ring product is awesome, there’s some good storylines but all of the annoying shit either needs to be trimmed and changed or things will get worse. Simple as that.
More women’s matches and legit storylines, less ROH shit that is great in ring but nobody wants to watch (make it developmental), gain the ability to pivot and change when the crowd demands it because WWE doesn’t seem like they’re going to antagonize the crowd any longer. You’re not WWE but the last year or two you haven’t been very AEW either. Not time to panic but an excellent time to get back to what should’ve been the basics in the first place!
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