Kalmia
King Koopa
Happy to be here
Posts: 11,881
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Post by Kalmia on Nov 26, 2023 11:39:17 GMT -5
Yeah, I think AEW (and its fans) really need to get away from comparisons to WWE. WWE is the market leader because its style of wrestling and presentation appeals to more people. If you're going to be any kind of alternative, you have to be aware that you're probably not going to appeal to as many people and that's okay. It has nothing to do with being better or worse in any way, it's just a difference in what the masses like.
I do think that AEW has lost some of its identity from where it was when it was hot back in 2021. The changes did mainly occur while Punk was there but I'm not going to blame Punk for any of that because it goes wider than him. Maybe Tony Khan should marathon through the pandemic era/early to mid-2021 AEW instead of just raiding his WCW tapes to get some ideas.
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Fade
Patti Mayonnaise
Posts: 38,304
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Post by Fade on Nov 26, 2023 11:41:01 GMT -5
I think AEW's on the right track. There's still improvements to be made, but 2024 could be big for AEW. Literally the only thing that could go wrong is if TK decides to make the Punk thing into a big deal. Which...... I could totally see him doing. Brah Tony prbly cried himself to sleep. or gently hit his mattress while chanting through sobs “cm punk cm punk cm punk”
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Post by daaave on Nov 26, 2023 11:42:55 GMT -5
I think if you judge AEW as a success or not by whether they beat WWE in ratings, revenue, attendances etc then yeah, sure WWE will dust them. But I don't think those are the metrics which decide whether AEW are a success or not While I agree I think many are comparing AEW to AEW. Pre-Punk AEW was doing betterl and had a lot of hype behind it. Yeah agreed, and AEW's decline in year over year metrics recently is a concern that management should be thinking about but then also it's naive to think every year will see increases. It's a young company, there will always ups and downs and plateaus.
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Post by Ronny Rayguns Is All Elite on Nov 26, 2023 11:42:57 GMT -5
Weekly numbers are stagnant and ticket sales are dragging, but at the same time they have more TV time and PPVs than they've ever had before so that's a good place to be.
I think they're at the point where they should start building brand recognition by having their homegrown stars do more interviews and TV/movie appearances.
People like Swerve/Toni Storm/MJF/Ricky Starks are potential breakout personalities
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markymark
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Posts: 18,572
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Post by markymark on Nov 26, 2023 11:43:13 GMT -5
No. It's not going to dust AEW. Though TK does need to dial back a little on giving MJF the Super Cena treatment.
It would be worth if he either loses to Joe or loses to Swerve in early 2024
No idea what difference Punk will make but do think it's amusing the credit WWE are getting for employing an unemployed man, a guy who they laughed at AEW for having ("he's their problem now"), a guy AEW fired. It was a surprise to many because they denied he was going to be there but the "AEW can't top this!" shouts have been so weird because like...they had Punk. We've already seen him come back from his long absence, cut unscripted promos, work loads of matches and even have some creative control, there's not a lot interesting that WWE can do with him, him being back there after all this time is really only interesting if you haven't watched his AEW run or think WWE is the only game in town. For some people this is an emotional moment and he's back "home" after however many years he was gone, for me I saw him in the flesh in London a few months ago, the novelty would be long gone even if I had the desire to watch WWE regularly again. It wouldn't surprise me if current trends continued though and WWE's viewing figures went up even more, the reaction to their product and the way I see it are worlds apart, I still think they're a vastly inferior wrestling company to AEW in almost every area, but that's not the current narrative and it's unlikely to change soon. Either way, time will tell how wise it is employing a known locker room trouble maker when you're "red hot" and in a period of harmony, being conveniently ignored AEW only went into a period of being less hot largely because of Punk.
They rehired him because some of their markets were already declining and also to give TK an FU and teach him "How to control talent".
What sucks those fans who already claiming AEW is dead because of Punk back to WWE.
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ASYLUMHAUSEN
Fry's dog Seymour
GIFs | Shitposts | Fun
Posts: 24,509
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Post by ASYLUMHAUSEN on Nov 26, 2023 11:43:29 GMT -5
I sort of want to see a Joe vs. Swerve feud where Joe is all old-school mob boss, "back in my day, there was honor among thieves..." and all that, and Swerve just pissing all over that with "Who cares, old man? Today, honor doesn't mean shit!", and they just go to war trying to be the bigger bastard. Prop Joe vs Marlo Swerve is not something I knew I needed until today… But yes. Yes please.
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Post by SneakMan on Nov 26, 2023 11:49:34 GMT -5
Prop Joe vs Marlo Swerve is not something I knew I needed until today… But yes. Yes please. Swerve: *shaking Joe’s hand* Nobody f***s with me now.
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Post by Some Guy on Nov 26, 2023 11:50:10 GMT -5
I think they need to stop TRYING to be WWE lite. You can blame Punk and so forth all you want for that, but the issue in general goes way deeper than him and boils down to Tony essentially changing his presentation to be more like WWE and it's not working. A lot of the time it doesn't feel even like an alternative anymore.
Probably doesn't help the fact that they killed their own tag division by splitting it in two and they have basically two WWE like gimmick main champs in MJF and Toni Storm but all the same.
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KME
Team Rocket
Posts: 813
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Post by KME on Nov 26, 2023 11:52:49 GMT -5
Product wise everyone's gonna have a different opinion depending on what they like. However, they absolutely need to get their shit together backstage. TK sat there and allowed Punk to burn his company down at the scrum, then he gave him and other troublemakers their own show, and then allowed him to have power beyond that of a regular talent, to the point that he was blocking people with actual power from entering shows. It shouldn't have taken a choking for TK to put a stop to all of this. In other words, it's not the product or creative I fear, it's the inner workings of a company that sits there and allows this to happen. I’ve wondered how much all of this effected the Young Bucks. First, Cody left. While they have supported him it had to sting a little. Then Punk comes in and absolutely embarrasses them publicly only to get ultimately rewarded for it. Jay Briscoe passes away during all of this and they’ve always pushed for the Briscoes. Add in the amount of personal hate directed at them and it had to be brutal for them. Seeing them end BTE and take time off makes me wonder how bad this all hurt them seeing their vision essentially come apart. To the original point of the thread. I think it’s crunch time in AEW needs to find its identity again and TK has to reign things in backstage. If any others are feeling like Punk did he needs to let them go. I do thing AEW is the better product and I think some have been successful convincing people AEW is much worse than it is. I think a lot if the perceived troubles are false narratives (AEW being ice cold, the locker room not having “structure”, overreaction to crowds and ratings). I do think some or purposefully driving a false narrative. Definitely been a huge drive in terms of false narratives, you can tell there are some that smell blood and are dictating the perception of AEW. The likes of Meltzer have become hugely negative of late too which doesn't help, on one hand he's giving them more favourable star ratings than he ever has, a guy who presumably values in ring above anything else, yet on the other he's parroting the latest bile a WWE insider has fed him about how AEW is seen as a retirement home because WWE signed a bum like Pillman Jr and Jade (tbh the whole comment has aged like milk after losing out on Ospreay and then patting themselves on the back for hiring a man AEW fired, who over a year ago described himself as old & tired) while also constantly reminding everyone how cold the product is. I think AEW have got very little credit for things they've done well this year, and there's been absolutely loads.
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markymark
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Posts: 18,572
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Post by markymark on Nov 26, 2023 11:57:22 GMT -5
I think they need to stop TRYING to be WWE lite. You can blame Punk and so forth all you want for that, but the issue in general goes way deeper than him and boils down to Tony essentially changing his presentation to be more like WWE and it's not working. A lot of the time it doesn't feel even like an alternative anymore. Probably doesn't help the fact that they killed their own tag division by splitting it in two and they have basically two WWE like gimmick main champs in MJF and Toni Storm but all the same.
Being WWE lite in the past was TNA 3 mins matches and 1 million promos, I remember 411 making fun of TNA in ring time(RIP Larry Czonka).
Btw wouldnt Julia also count as a "WWE lite gimmick champ"?
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Zone Was Wrong
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Currently living off the high that AEW brings every Wednesday and Friday
Posts: 16,376
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Post by Zone Was Wrong on Nov 26, 2023 11:59:20 GMT -5
Call me a homer if you want, but honestly there hasn't been a thing about the in ring product I don't like minus my usual annoyance at the women's booking
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Post by Some Guy on Nov 26, 2023 12:02:43 GMT -5
I think they need to stop TRYING to be WWE lite. You can blame Punk and so forth all you want for that, but the issue in general goes way deeper than him and boils down to Tony essentially changing his presentation to be more like WWE and it's not working. A lot of the time it doesn't feel even like an alternative anymore. Probably doesn't help the fact that they killed their own tag division by splitting it in two and they have basically two WWE like gimmick main champs in MJF and Toni Storm but all the same. Being WWE lite in the past was TNA 3 mins matches and 1 million promos, I remember 411 making fun of TNA in ring time(RIP Larry Czonka). Btw wouldnt Julia also count as a "WWE lite gimmick champ"?
TNA is its whole brand of giant mistakes separate from anything, but there can be variants of WWE lite still. As for Julia, well sure. But this is at least only her first reign and she's mostly focused her stuff on ring work at this point.
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The Ichi
Patti Mayonnaise
AGGRESSIVE Executive Janitor of the Third Floor Manager's Bathroom
Posts: 37,352
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Post by The Ichi on Nov 26, 2023 12:03:32 GMT -5
AEW has already been losing to WWE, they'll possibly lose even worse now. The goal should just be to not lose more viewers rather than fighting an unwinnable fight.
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chrom
Backup Wench
Master of the rare undecuple post
Posts: 85,221
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Post by chrom on Nov 26, 2023 12:04:38 GMT -5
Literally, all I want is two women's matches a show. And different women as well appearing. How many times now they've done Skye vs Ruby?
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Post by superdelfin1882 on Nov 26, 2023 12:05:43 GMT -5
The last of the incidents at All In completely soured me on wrestling overall. One of AEW's biggest nights and just overshadowed by all the drama that occured backstage. TK's Twitter shenanigans also added to my general disinterest. So I'm no up to date on recent events however With that said, I don't see Punk behaving the same at WWE. He'll most likely play ball and probably even keep his ego in check. I won't be surprised if we hear of no backstage drama at all.
The man literally got himself fired and I can only imagine that he would nuke that bridge simply because he doesn't see AEW lasting long. So I do hope AEW can get past all the crap and focus solely on it's own product and at least be at the level it was prior to all of this.
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KME
Team Rocket
Posts: 813
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Post by KME on Nov 26, 2023 12:13:01 GMT -5
I'm not sure how AEW doesn't feel like an alternative in a week where they've signed Will Ospreay but said he'll still be able to work New Japan, started a Round Robin Tournament and had an absolute bloodbath between Swerve and Hangman, all things that would never happen in WWE. It's a very clear alternative to me. Toni feels like a weird shout as being WWE-lite as well, no idea what WWE's humour is like now but it always used to be abysmal, Toni has been hilarious...and over.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2023 12:15:19 GMT -5
I do not think it is so much crunch time but HHH and them boys have a plan and it started with Cody...showing through him that THIS is how you can get treated when you come over this side.
TK needs to get into a similar mindset but he has a bit of a hill to climb because this involves doing something , embracing something that HHH hasn't caught onto yet that can lure not just WWE talent but international talent to his company and not just through more money because at this point idk if TK can out money WWE anymore and I just saw something that reported WWE does not want any of its talent leaving and are paying way more money to ensure it does not happen.
TK has an insane talent pool that is deeper than even what WWE has access to and so it aint a talent issue but creatively he has got to step it up with bold new ideas and I do not mean simply tossing out more FMW style matches.
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Facetious
King Koopa
ADAM COLE BAYBAY
Posts: 11,793
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Post by Facetious on Nov 26, 2023 12:18:28 GMT -5
Literally, all I want is two women's matches a show. It's so frustrating. You have a decent roster and they just book one match a show with the same 5 women in rotation. And then you get shit defense about it like "oh they main evented RAMPAGE!!" like that's supposed to be impressive. 5 hours of TV in a week and you get THREE women's matches is unacceptable in 2023
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Sephiroth
Wade Wilson
Surviving
Posts: 29,023
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Post by Sephiroth on Nov 26, 2023 12:24:30 GMT -5
Tony repeatedly made himself like a jackass with his handling of the punk situations and by extension made his promotion a laughingstock. WWE has gained a recognized name that is at least going to move some merch. If he ends up going nuclear for them too, I expect WWE to at least handle it better than Tony did. This is LOLAEW territory.
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Fade
Patti Mayonnaise
Posts: 38,304
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Post by Fade on Nov 26, 2023 12:27:13 GMT -5
I'm not sure how AEW doesn't feel like an alternative in a week where they've signed Will Ospreay but said he'll still be able to work New Japan, started a Round Robin Tournament and had an absolute bloodbath between Swerve and Hangman, all things that would never happen in WWE. It's a very clear alternative to me. Toni feels like a weird shout as being WWE-lite as well, no idea what WWE's humour is like now but it always used to be abysmal, Toni has been hilarious...and over. this is part of me genuinely being confused as to what they should do: yes gotta be the alternative but iono if grappling, round robin tournaments and other non-wwe-sports entertainment tropes are going to do the trick. Likewise, yea blood and violence, something wwe can’t do. but these are all niche things that don’t go for a wider scope. WWE goes for the wider audience by design. AEW goes for that niche hardcore base by design. kind of has to, but how does that lead to growth?
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