|
Post by Some Guy on Feb 15, 2024 0:42:38 GMT -5
They should let other talents go to other promotions fairly often too, so it's a good thing. Hell why not have FTR or someone win the tag titles in NJPW? Have you all seen who the state of their goddamn tag division?
|
|
Fundertaker
El Dandy
Hideo Kojima should direct every ending ever!
Posts: 8,922
|
Post by Fundertaker on Feb 15, 2024 5:14:30 GMT -5
They should let other talents go to other promotions fairly often too, so it's a good thing. Hell why not have FTR or someone win the tag titles in NJPW? Have you all seen who the state of their goddamn tag division? They did and killed the momentum the division had been gaining.
|
|
Legion
Fry's dog Seymour
Amy Pond's #1 fan
Hail Hydra!
Posts: 22,742
|
Post by Legion on Feb 15, 2024 8:08:52 GMT -5
Due to the way they present it, close it.
The expectation is I, as a viewer of AEW, also watch NJPW and know whonall their guys are. I dont, and I dont have an interest or frankly the time to do so.
As such, every year when we get the build to the show, I tune out. I cant get interested because I have to do homework to watch the show.
If they changed the presentation and did some video packages or spent more time telling and showing me why I should care about the NJPW talent, then I'd be all for it being open.
*NJPW can be subbed for CMLL or any other company they work with.
|
|
|
Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Feb 15, 2024 9:24:01 GMT -5
I've not watched in a while, but when I was watching, it really did feel sometimes like actual AEW talent couldn't get a look in between ROH and NJPW people. I do like that they do crossovers, it feels WCW-esque, I've always been a fan of that generally. But it does also mean that you're risking, for example, making two months of your TV and PPVs totally worthless to someone like me every year because I just don't give a shit about New Japan, and a whole bunch of the booking around that time was 'OH MY GOD (Japanese wrestler) IS HERE' and they're just not dream matches for a person who only knows who one of the dudes in a match is.
Plus, interpromotional stuff sure doesn't seem to help the women out much, meaning there's just even more men on the show than there were before.
The second year of Forbidden Door I think was... marginally better? But I accidentally bought that PPV in a bundle so I kinda had no option but to pay attention to the build to remotely get my money's worth.
|
|
dbsot
Bubba Ho-Tep
Posts: 597
|
Post by dbsot on Feb 15, 2024 9:38:15 GMT -5
Forbidden Door was AEW's 2nd highest tickets sold and 2nd highest PPV buys for 2023, only behind All-In. If the concept is making money, then milk it for as long as possible.
|
|
|
Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Feb 15, 2024 9:44:07 GMT -5
I actually just want to add in another thought here, which is that I know a lot of people are dunking on the OP here, including moderators and some of my buddies, but like.
When Suzuki showed up in AEW, before he actually had a match, genuinely asking - *did* he get presented as anything other than weird haircut guy who is stiff? Was the latter part even put across at all? My memory of the runup to the first Forbidden Door is mainly guy's name, fans pop, guy walks out to prove he is actually there, fans pop some more, match is booked, that's it. Some of them got like, tag matches I think in the lead up, but I remember precious few video packages or promos. I know many of them didn't have great English, but I am sick of this as an excuse for ESOL wrestlers, just subtitle them, it's really not difficult - this is a problem in all promotions really tho
|
|
|
Post by This Player Hating Mothman on Feb 15, 2024 9:52:16 GMT -5
I actually just want to add in another thought here, which is that I know a lot of people are dunking on the OP here, including moderators and some of my buddies, but like. When Suzuki showed up in AEW, before he actually had a match, genuinely asking - *did* he get presented as anything other than weird haircut guy who is stiff? Was the latter part even put across at all? My memory of the runup to the first Forbidden Door is mainly guy's name, fans pop, guy walks out to prove he is actually there, fans pop some more, match is booked, that's it. Some of them got like, tag matches I think in the lead up, but I remember precious few video packages or promos. I know many of them didn't have great English, but I am sick of this as an excuse for ESOL wrestlers, just subtitle them, it's really not difficult - this is a problem in all promotions really tho The pre-match presentation part is definitely flawed in a lot of places for sure, but I think once Suzuki actually showed up, he showed off a bit more than just 'stiff haircut guy'. I guess for me, the disconnect is in OP's being complaint less "They aren't teaching me who this is" but the very explicit claim that he's 'generic', because even just his AEW work will tell you that he is not. Your criticism here, I think most people can agree with as a thing it'd at least be nice of them to do maybe even if they think it's fine to not, but i don't think that's really how people read OP.
|
|
|
Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Feb 15, 2024 10:00:29 GMT -5
I actually just want to add in another thought here, which is that I know a lot of people are dunking on the OP here, including moderators and some of my buddies, but like. When Suzuki showed up in AEW, before he actually had a match, genuinely asking - *did* he get presented as anything other than weird haircut guy who is stiff? Was the latter part even put across at all? My memory of the runup to the first Forbidden Door is mainly guy's name, fans pop, guy walks out to prove he is actually there, fans pop some more, match is booked, that's it. Some of them got like, tag matches I think in the lead up, but I remember precious few video packages or promos. I know many of them didn't have great English, but I am sick of this as an excuse for ESOL wrestlers, just subtitle them, it's really not difficult - this is a problem in all promotions really tho The pre-match presentation part is definitely flawed in a lot of places for sure, but I think once Suzuki actually showed up, he showed off a bit more than just 'stiff haircut guy'. I guess for me, the disconnect is in OP's being complaint less "They aren't teaching me who this is" but the very explicit claim that he's 'generic', because even just his AEW work will tell you that he is not. Your criticism here, I think most people can agree with as a thing it'd at least be nice of them to do maybe even if they think it's fine to not, but i don't think that's really how people read OP. That is fair. Substantial whiff of bad faith of this thing
|
|
|
Post by Cyno on Feb 15, 2024 10:01:59 GMT -5
I actually just want to add in another thought here, which is that I know a lot of people are dunking on the OP here, including moderators and some of my buddies, but like. When Suzuki showed up in AEW, before he actually had a match, genuinely asking - *did* he get presented as anything other than weird haircut guy who is stiff? Was the latter part even put across at all? My memory of the runup to the first Forbidden Door is mainly guy's name, fans pop, guy walks out to prove he is actually there, fans pop some more, match is booked, that's it. Some of them got like, tag matches I think in the lead up, but I remember precious few video packages or promos. I know many of them didn't have great English, but I am sick of this as an excuse for ESOL wrestlers, just subtitle them, it's really not difficult - this is a problem in all promotions really tho Suzuki's debut in AEW was a surprise appearance at All Out 2021 after Jon Moxley vs Satoshi Kojima. Mox was visibly freaked out when he heard his music and the two traded a bunch of strikes before Suzuki took him out with a piledriver. Also, while I agree that subtitled pretaped stuff should be more prevalent, live subtitles are literally impossible. Best you could do is have a subtitles prepared from a script and hope the talent follows it to the letter. Otherwise, you need an interpreter. Just hopefully not one as dorky as Alex is for Penta.
|
|
Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
FANatic
Writer, Lover of all things Wrestling. Analytical, Critical, Lovable (hopefully). Lets all have fun!
Posts: 235,492
|
Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Feb 15, 2024 10:05:13 GMT -5
No, and as long as companies are willing they NEVER ever should.
|
|
|
Post by polarbearpete on Feb 15, 2024 10:30:09 GMT -5
I think they should keep it open to an extent, gives some more variety to the show. Could definitely use more background for some talent though, especially during the PPV build.
|
|
KME
Team Rocket
Posts: 782
|
Post by KME on Feb 15, 2024 10:33:12 GMT -5
You really don't need to do "homework". I doubt many did "homework" on Hechicero yet virtually everyone now thinks he's f***ing awesome and wants to see more of him. The fact there's often very little storyline behind guys coming in (which is, perhaps fairly, something people complain about) means you really don't need to do "homework", you just need to watch them go out and put on great matches. When I was watching TNA back in the day I loved the World X Cup, and seeing these guys that weren't normally around, I never felt like "oh ffs now I need to do homework", it felt like a treat not a chore. And it was rewarding in the end as when several of those guys actually signed with TNA I was even more excited for it cos I'd seen a lot of them despite not watching the promotions they came from.
Everyone's different I guess but it just feels very much like wanting AEW to be WWE this needing video packages of a guy working to care about them. When you can just...watch them work in AEW. What's a video package going to show you that just watching them wrestle won't? A highlight reel of their best moves is just going to show you what you're soon going to see anyway, and vignette's with lots of talking isn't AEW's style anyway, let alone with guys who don't speak English as a first language.
AEW was set up to be an alternative and feels like it's mainly aimed at the people who DO watch other wrestling promotions and know exactly who these guys are, especially those from New Japan. Obviously that's not going to appease everybody but I don't really want them to start trying to appease a different sort of fan, those who just want things the way WWE would do it...because they'll just watch WWE instead if push comes to shove.
|
|
|
Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Feb 15, 2024 11:08:01 GMT -5
You really don't need to do "homework". I doubt many did "homework" on Hechicero yet virtually everyone now thinks he's f***ing awesome and wants to see more of him. The fact there's often very little storyline behind guys coming in (which is, perhaps fairly, something people complain about) means you really don't need to do "homework", you just need to watch them go out and put on great matches. When I was watching TNA back in the day I loved the World X Cup, and seeing these guys that weren't normally around, I never felt like "oh ffs now I need to do homework", it felt like a treat not a chore. And it was rewarding in the end as when several of those guys actually signed with TNA I was even more excited for it cos I'd seen a lot of them despite not watching the promotions they came from. Everyone's different I guess but it just feels very much like wanting AEW to be WWE this needing video packages of a guy working to care about them. When you can just...watch them work in AEW. What's a video package going to show you that just watching them wrestle won't? A highlight reel of their best moves is just going to show you what you're soon going to see anyway, and vignette's with lots of talking isn't AEW's style anyway, let alone with guys who don't speak English as a first language. AEW was set up to be an alternative and feels like it's mainly aimed at the people who DO watch other wrestling promotions and know exactly who these guys are, especially those from New Japan. Obviously that's not going to appease everybody but I don't really want them to start trying to appease a different sort of fan, those who just want things the way WWE would do it...because they'll just watch WWE instead if push comes to shove. I don't know where this 'like WWE' thing came from? And you also decided what the video packages people referenced would consist of, namely moves being hit, which... none of that is stuff I actually said, maybe someone else did in a post that I missed. I'll tell you one thing though, one thing that a video package, even just one of hitting moves, would do, is actually indicate what a wrestler's finisher is, so that when a match is built around them trying to hit their finish it actually makes sense as a story. I didn't know what Yuji Nagata's finish was when he had a match with Mox a couple of years ago, and eventually gleaned what his finish was because the match was built around him trying to hit it. Packages could also have, you know. Entrances. Promo segments. Interview segments. Shots of them having just won belts to give an indication of what level of guy we're talking about here. Anyway, we're not talking just about the guys having matches. If a wrestler debuts immediately before the match they're going to have, regardless of setup, then sure, the match can do a lot of the heavy lifting for us. We're talking about segments where they say 'in six weeks, a huge match, this guy vs. John Moxley' with no indication of who 'this guy' is. Should I be worried for Mox? Should I be worried about Mox's opponent? Is there a face/heel dynamic in this situation, or can I expect a ground-based wrestling match? Will they immediately brawl to the outside? It can just make it really hard to care about a match that's announced ahead of time if you don't know what the match will be like at all. I'm not asking for advance stipulations being announced or any shit like that, but if they announced Brody King vs. Mox, that's a match I feel like I know what to expect from and would be excited for. If they announced QT Marshall vs. Mox, I know that I'm going to make a cup of tea when the entrances start for that match and come back when it's over. Sometimes there were entire segments (well, mini segments, it wasn't like a full 10 minutes of TV between ad breaks) of people just being announced, walking out onstage to wave or do a pose, and then leave while their music never stops playing. A lot of the time, unless a beatdown happens, there wasn't even an indication of face or heel alignment. I agree with you 100% that AEW shouldn't be trying to 'appease' anybody, but you've arbitrarily assigned this WWE coding to anything that isn't what AEW is currently doing interpromotionally, when all I'm actually asking for is for someone to be put over even a little bit before I'm expected to be excited that they've been booked. Honestly even a f***ing tale of the tape would do me! The World X Cup is actually an ideal example, because then it was at least the same few random wrestlers from other promotions who were coming in. If I know I'm going to be dealing with you for multiple weeks in a row, then it's at least worth leaning in to this match and getting invested because this will be ongoing.
|
|
|
Post by Fade is a CodyCryBaby on Feb 15, 2024 11:42:52 GMT -5
I think they should keep it open to an extent, gives some more variety to the show. Could definitely use more background for some talent though, especially during the PPV build. They could incorporate some angles to it. In fact, they might need to the way things have been going. Could definitely do something with the amount of former New Japan talent in aedub currently. I mentioned TNA before, they been killing it, and I know no company wants to “look bad” in these things, but it might serve to put another company ( TNA) over as a huge threat.
|
|
|
Post by CeilingFan on Feb 15, 2024 13:59:32 GMT -5
Has AEW worked with any Canadian promotions?
|
|
Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
FANatic
Writer, Lover of all things Wrestling. Analytical, Critical, Lovable (hopefully). Lets all have fun!
Posts: 235,492
|
Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Feb 15, 2024 14:15:32 GMT -5
I think they should keep it open to an extent, gives some more variety to the show. Could definitely use more background for some talent though, especially during the PPV build. They could incorporate some angles to it. In fact, they might need to the way things have been going. Could definitely do something with the amount of former New Japan talent in aedub currently. I mentioned TNA before, they been killing it, and I know no company wants to “look bad” in these things, but it might serve to put another company ( TNA) over as a huge threat. Aren't BCC and CMLL in a cool feud right now? Like that's an angle they seem to be trying out across both promotions and it's generated fun buzz so far.
|
|
Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
FANatic
Writer, Lover of all things Wrestling. Analytical, Critical, Lovable (hopefully). Lets all have fun!
Posts: 235,492
|
Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Feb 15, 2024 14:16:25 GMT -5
They should let other talents go to other promotions fairly often too, so it's a good thing. Hell why not have FTR or someone win the tag titles in NJPW? Have you all seen who the state of their goddamn tag division? BCC are going to be competing in CMLL soon, that was announced on Dynamite And I mean FTR could win the IWGP Tag titles... they did before, while in AEW lol
|
|
Kalmia
King Koopa
Happy to be here
Posts: 11,679
|
Post by Kalmia on Feb 15, 2024 14:47:00 GMT -5
I've never watched CMLL and had no clue who these guys were (well, I knew Mistico) but I'm greatly enjoying seeing them on TV. I'm all for bringing in new people to have the occasional banger match on TV. It's a great way of ensuring you get awesome TV matches without repeating match ups over and over.
|
|
Mozenrath
FANatic
Foppery and Whim
Speedy Speed Boy
Posts: 121,070
|
Post by Mozenrath on Feb 15, 2024 14:54:32 GMT -5
Due to the way they present it, close it. The expectation is I, as a viewer of AEW, also watch NJPW and know whonall their guys are. I dont, and I dont have an interest or frankly the time to do so. As such, every year when we get the build to the show, I tune out. I cant get interested because I have to do homework to watch the show. If they changed the presentation and did some video packages or spent more time telling and showing me why I should care about the NJPW talent, then I'd be all for it being open. *NJPW can be subbed for CMLL or any other company they work with. You honestly kind of have it backwards. The point of these kinds of collaborations tends to be "I want more eyes on my guys, I will send them to AEW" and AEW both scouting people that way and just having fresh match ups. Like, by not knowing shit about NJPW, you're honestly one of the ideal targets.
|
|
|
Post by Cyno on Feb 15, 2024 14:57:10 GMT -5
I think they should keep it open to an extent, gives some more variety to the show. Could definitely use more background for some talent though, especially during the PPV build. They could incorporate some angles to it. In fact, they might need to the way things have been going. Could definitely do something with the amount of former New Japan talent in aedub currently. I mentioned TNA before, they been killing it, and I know no company wants to “look bad” in these things, but it might serve to put another company ( TNA) over as a huge threat. Apparently D'Amore and Khan are pretty good friends and I'm guessing the earlier collabs between the two companies was because of that. But I don't know what the f*** Anthem is doing with TNA anymore. Wouldn't be surprised if they killed that because all the outreach to other companies was Scott's idea and now he's gone.
|
|