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Post by celtics543 on Apr 8, 2024 10:11:50 GMT -5
Last night was unreal, just an amazing Mania. I was left with a question though, why is John Cena now a Jobber? The guy ran the entire company from like 2005 until he retired a couple years ago. Now when he comes back he's getting kind of squashed by guys like Solo and Austin Theory. He's like the one legit top guy from his era and they treat him like a midcard Jobber to the stars guy whenever he comes back.
I feel absurd saying this after living through the Super Cena era where he never lost but now it's like he gets the least amount of star treatment of anyone. Rock comes back and is instantly main event. Austin comes back and is instantly main event. Same with HHH, Undertaker, etc but Cena comes back and maybe he gets a competitive match with Austin Theory or Solo. Rock came out last night and punked him immediately. What is he missing? He's a Hollywood star, a former dominant pro wrestler, liked by live crowds, seems to be respected by his peers, what am I missing?
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Post by eJm on Apr 8, 2024 10:13:48 GMT -5
I've said for ages now Cena's treatment has been absurd since about 2017 or so outside of stuff that made "sense" to do.
Like, I can't imagine a scenario where even a HHH would lose to Austin Theory and Solo Sikoa in the space of the year to zero benefit to either guy but that's what happened along with many other really weird decisions. Last night included because...what?
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No Longer a Produceman
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Post by No Longer a Produceman on Apr 8, 2024 10:13:52 GMT -5
He wants to help put over talent as opposed to making your current stars seem insignificant in their own storyline.
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Post by Mid-Carder on Apr 8, 2024 10:15:40 GMT -5
Because he's obviously secure in himself and his career that he can be used to help the guys carrying the company rather than himself
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Post by David-Arquette was in WCW 2000 on Apr 8, 2024 10:53:00 GMT -5
I'm sure if he wanted to he could go out there and steamroll people just like Rocky, Triple H, Undertaker, Goldberg, etc. He's helping put over the younger guys, which is something we keep asking the older guys to do. I think he's doing it in good faith, and from his own good will. It's then unfortunate if WWE then mess up the rub that Cena gives to that younger talent.
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Bo Rida
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Post by Bo Rida on Apr 8, 2024 11:08:57 GMT -5
Are people deliberately missing the point? It's not wins or losses that matter but how he's presented.
Putting over one guy as all-time legend, best of his generation John Cena would mean more than losing 20 times as that jobber that used to work here Cena.
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Post by eJm on Apr 8, 2024 11:12:27 GMT -5
Are people deliberately missing the point? It's not wins or losses that matter but how he's presented. Putting over one guy as all-time legend, best of his generation John Cena would mean more than losing 20 times as that jobber that used to work here Cena. Yeah, that's how I see it. Like, his feud with Austin Theory was him saying "You'll beat me and it'll mean nothing and you'll be in the same place" and guess what? Theory beat him, it meant nothing and he was exactly where he was until one year later when he's a tag champion. Which, no disrespect to the tag titles, doesn't really seem like the spot beating Cena should leave you at. |
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Apr 8, 2024 11:14:11 GMT -5
He could have been booked stronger in spots a few years ago when he was being taken out of Survivor Series matches super early, but far as I can tell it’s his call and he’s got a Danielson like mentality where he wants the younger talent to look better even if he comes off weak.
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Post by ChitownKnight on Apr 8, 2024 11:16:15 GMT -5
He could have been booked stronger in spots a few years ago when he was being taken out of Survivor Series matches super early, but far as I can tell it’s his call and he’s got a Danielson like mentality where he wants the younger talent to look better even if he comes off weak. I think since the guy is becoming pretty successful in Hollywood he doesn’t care about losing a few fake fights |
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Apr 8, 2024 11:20:29 GMT -5
Are people deliberately missing the point? It's not wins or losses that matter but how he's presented. Putting over one guy as all-time legend, best of his generation John Cena would mean more than losing 20 times as that jobber that used to work here Cena. Yeah, that's how I see it. Like, his feud with Austin Theory was him saying "You'll beat me and it'll mean nothing and you'll be in the same place" and guess what? Theory beat him, it meant nothing and he was exactly where he was until one year later when he's a tag champion. Which, no disrespect to the tag titles, doesn't really seem like the spot beating Cena should leave you at. and Solo is still exactly where he was the low level minion of Roman. Yeah, at minimum having a competitive match against Cena should be enough to get you to at mid card champion status let alone actually beating him. But they bring Cena out and present him as just another guy and they have for a long ass time... hell last night was probably the best they have shown him in years as he stood face to face with the Rock, sure he got Rock bottomed but it was still against the Rock. |
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Post by eJm on Apr 8, 2024 11:24:39 GMT -5
The only thing I'd worry about is Cena winding up in a Mick Foley scenario where he's so intent on putting over new talent that he does it so often and so convincingly that it winds up losing its meaning. And I'm not saying that'd be a bad thing! That's admirable! But even Bryan Danielson, an example used in this thread, gets wins over people before a big loss because it'll put Danielson on a level to match someone. Cena doesn't even do that! |
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Post by Toilet Paper Roll on Apr 8, 2024 11:30:18 GMT -5
What else does he have to do in the industry other than help elevate newer guys or progress storylines when he’s called on?
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Apr 8, 2024 11:31:38 GMT -5
What else does he have to do in the industry other than help elevate newer guys or progress storylines when he’s called on? If all you do is lose every time you show up it's diminishing returns. Mick Foley lost so damned often in his comebacks that beating him meant literally nothing. |
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Post by eJm on Apr 8, 2024 11:34:51 GMT -5
What else does he have to do in the industry other than help elevate newer guys or progress storylines when he’s called on? If all you do is lose every time you show up it's diminishing returns. Mick Foley lost so damned often in his comebacks that beating him meant literally nothing. And we live in an era where, in the same match Cena was in, The Undertaker appeared, chokeslammed "The Final Boss" Rock and then teleported him away. You can still be credible and do stuff without laying on your back for three seconds repeatedly. |
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Post by celtics543 on Apr 8, 2024 11:40:14 GMT -5
I guess it's not the losses but the way he's presented. He gets presented as not a big deal and feels like he's no threat at all to actually win. I'm happy that he wants to put guys over and doesn't mind losing, that's great, but the company presents him like he didn't just dominate the 2000's. He's been presented as way lesser of a star than most of the guys who come back.
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thecrusherwi
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Post by thecrusherwi on Apr 8, 2024 11:40:20 GMT -5
Are people deliberately missing the point? It's not wins or losses that matter but how he's presented. Putting over one guy as all-time legend, best of his generation John Cena would mean more than losing 20 times as that jobber that used to work here Cena. Yeah I think that's the problem. If they don't protect him a little bit, getting the best of John Cena doesn't mean anything. Rock dropped him like he was Tozawa or something - not like the guy he fought in one of the 5 biggest Wrestlemania Main Events of all time. |
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Apr 8, 2024 11:41:16 GMT -5
If all you do is lose every time you show up it's diminishing returns. Mick Foley lost so damned often in his comebacks that beating him meant literally nothing. And we live in an era where, in the same match Cena was in, The Undertaker appeared, chokeslammed "The Final Boss" Rock and then teleported him away. You can still be credible and do stuff without laying on your back for three seconds repeatedly. Hell have him do something like Chad Gable did with Sami. Where John trains a lower card guy for a big time match, you can even do it as pretapes and shoot them all at once.... so Cena only needs to get one or two days off shooting. |
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Post by eJm on Apr 8, 2024 11:47:38 GMT -5
I guess it's not the losses but the way he's presented. He gets presented as not a big deal and feels like he's no threat at all to actually win. I'm happy that he wants to put guys over and doesn't mind losing, that's great, but the company presents him like he didn't just dominate the 2000's. He's been presented as way lesser of a star than most of the guys who come back. I'll say again, I think Cena is one of the most inconsistent main eventers booked in how his characters presented and the diversion did more harm than good until around 2014-2015 when he put the work into the US title open challenge and became a more well rounded worker... That early era Cena is one of, if not the key factor of why WWE is where it is now. Like, can you imagine a WWE where Rock's contract isn't renewed, Austin's basically put out to pasture, Shawn Michaels is your only prominent main eventer but he's stumbling around with HHH doing crotch chops like it's 1997 and John Cena was fired in 2003 and was seen as a dud? WWE would still exists but it damn sure wouldn't have the same power and credibility it has right now and a massive part of that is to do in large part with John Cena. And yet, here he is just having feuds you can't possibly care about against guys who don't benefit at all from being involved until you've forgotten the match happened (I'm pretty sure Solo's first storyline development since joining the Bloodline happened last night at 'Mania, months after the Cena match) and the fact he's still over is a testament to his personality and charisma and not any kind of credible booking. |
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Post by Jindrak Mark on Apr 8, 2024 12:11:22 GMT -5
I really want him to get one more title reign and break Flair's record in kayfabe. In fact he was just on McAfee's show and said he's not quite done yet and the crowd started chanting 17 at him lol.
Have him beat a heel at the Rumble then drop it to whoever you want to put over at Mania either next year or 2026 for his final match.
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Post by mcstoklasa on Apr 8, 2024 12:18:58 GMT -5
I really want him to get one more title reign and break Flair's record in kayfabe. In fact he was just on McAfee's show and said he's not quite done yet and the crowd started chanting 17 at him lol. Have him beat a heel at the Rumble then drop it to whoever you want to put over at Mania either next year or 2026 for his final match. He deserves it |
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