By Current TV Standards, Are We In A Boom Period? (Read OP)

[mountaindew]

I hear a lot of fans on the internet say WWE is not in a boom period. They compare it to the Rock N Wrestling Era (84-92) and the Attitude Era (98-01) when it was so popular everyone knew Hogan, Austin and Rock even if they didn't watch it. Roman Reigns and Cody Rhodes aren't really household names. 

But look at how popular shows were back then compared to today. Nothing on TV now is as popular as Cheers, The Cosby Show (he was a terrible person, but I'm making a point) Seinfeld, Everybody Loves Raymond, etc. Gone are the days of shows most people are familiar with even if they don't watch. Besides real sports. 

Even with people watching on TV, streaming services and YouTube, it's just impossible for WWE's audience to be as big now as it was in 2000. 

By those standards, would you say WWE is in a boom period?

[TWERKIN' MAGGLE]

Yes, by pretty much all metrics, WWE is in a boom.

[Deleted]

WWE itself could be argued is in a self imposed boom.

It just isn't an industry wide boom like the 80s and 90s.

[ghost]

Absolutely. They are getting massive attendance numbers and mainstream respect. First time it has felt like this since the MNW.

[ChitownKnight]

I’ve had friends that stopped watching years ago get back into it because of the bloodline story

[Ludwig Kaiser’s Walk]

I would say so.

It’s a different time for sure, but they are getting a ton of mainstream and social media coverage. Everybody knows what Wrestlemania is, so that helps, but I feel like it’s much more accepted and cool now than 5-10-15 years ago.

I think it’s hard to compare to the older boom periods because of how different the world was, but I do think this is one for this day and age.

["Cane Dewey" Johnson]

I think it's a boom, but I also think it's empty calories, it's a sugar high. When people look back on this era, there won't be much to talk about. Certainly not the in-ring product. Which isn't bad, per se. Not at all. But the exceptions are so exceptional that they cannot represent the whole. And all the mic content people are raving about currently will look like long pieces of pulled taffy.

I missed a bunch of wrestling between 2016 and 2021, and I know a lot of people were really down on WWE pre-COVID. In terms of the wrestling I have seen, I think professional wrestling hasn't been this bad creatively since 2009. And the grass isn't greener, either, for anyone about to say "what about AEW?"

[Muskrat]

They’re 100% in a boom period right now. Selling out everything, ratings are great, raking in cash, they’re on fire. Basically from late 2022 til now they’ve been gaining steam and Rock played the Mike Tyson role to push them over the top.

[Bo Rida]

It's largely a definition thing, like you say previous boom periods were marked by wrestling, or at least its biggest stars, as a central part of pop culture.
They're closer, there's a few things at the edges, mostly Rhea.

One big problem with all wrestling in general is how they preach to the converted. Wwe exploiting whales is an example. Pricing out kids won't help.

But it's certainly a hot, successful, or similar word period.

[Oh Cry Me a Screwball]

Apr 9, 2024 22:29:36 GMT -5 @sigmax said:

WWE itself could be argued is in a self imposed boom.

It just isn't an industry wide boom like the 80s and 90s.

I don't know about that. It's easy to write off AEW's numbers since they are down from peak-2021 and their TV tapings aren't packing venues, but 800k range for a show that's not 5 years old is still impressive AF, and their PPV events are still success stories in every way. TNA, despite the hype of their re-brand being tainted by the Scott D'Amore firing, is far away from their low points. Other mid-tier promotions like the NWA and MLW may be punchlines at times, but how many rumors are there about them being on death's door like Impact was in 2015?

And then there's the independents, which the "dirtsheets" are massively underreporting. GCW had an impressive Mania weekend where over half of 11 shows were sellouts, often times before a single match was announced. You can't write that off due to Mania weekend, because they are also touring every corner of the US and several international markets and drawing great houses nearly every time.

Moving away from GCW, there's the news that dropped this weekend with DPW, West Coast Pro, and Prestige Wrestling entering an alliance that's generating a lot of hype because the individual promotions are already doing fantastic business in their respective markets. Promotions like Wrestling Revolver and House of Glory are having great success, and have also done crossovers and joint shows with Prestige. A lot of this is being fueled by streaming services like Triller/FITE+ and IWTV reducing the price point of shows from $20 iPPVs to $7-10 a month for their libraries.

And even on a smaller level, a lot of towns are having more and more places to work. Here in Vegas prior to COVID, there was like two places to work and only one would really draw. Now, there's at least five running regularly with loyal followings.

It may not be the Golden Era or the Attitude Era, but with so many options in entertainment, wrestling across the board is doing better than I think people realize.

[eJm]

Apr 10, 2024 1:18:31 GMT -5 Oh Cry Me a Screwball said:

Apr 9, 2024 22:29:36 GMT -5 @sigmax said:

WWE itself could be argued is in a self imposed boom.

It just isn't an industry wide boom like the 80s and 90s.

I don't know about that. It's easy to write off AEW's numbers since they are down from peak-2021 and their TV tapings aren't packing venues, but 800k range for a show that's not 5 years old is still impressive AF, and their PPV events are still success stories in every way. TNA, despite the hype of their re-brand being tainted by the Scott D'Amore firing, is far away from their low points. Other mid-tier promotions like the NWA and MLW may be punchlines at times, but how many rumors are there about them being on death's door like Impact was in 2015?

And then there's the independents, which the "dirtsheets" are massively underreporting. GCW had an impressive Mania weekend where over half of 11 shows were sellouts, often times before a single match was announced. You can't write that off due to Mania weekend, because they are also touring every corner of the US and several international markets and drawing great houses nearly every time.

Moving away from GCW, there's the news that dropped this weekend with DPW, West Coast Pro, and Prestige Wrestling entering an alliance that's generating a lot of hype because the individual promotions are already doing fantastic business in their respective markets. Promotions like Wrestling Revolver and House of Glory are having great success, and have also done crossovers and joint shows with Prestige. A lot of this is being fueled by streaming services like Triller/FITE+ and IWTV reducing the price point of shows from $20 iPPVs to $7-10 a month for their libraries.

And even on a smaller level, a lot of towns are having more and more places to work. Here in Vegas prior to COVID, there was like two places to work and only one would really draw. Now, there's at least five running regularly with loyal followings.

It may not be the Golden Era or the Attitude Era, but with so many options in entertainment, wrestling across the board is doing better than I think people realize.

Honestly, I was about to agree with the Captain's broad point but seeing this...you're right, actually.

Like, we're not talking about a WWF/WCW/ECW style boom and I can't see Roman revered the same way Hogan and Austin were to define that period (for various reasons, some of it being the WWE's business plan not catering for that) but pro wrestling is a part of pop culture. It doesn't dominate or influence but it's a successful niche like many stuff is.

EDIT: It's as normal for Lil Wayne to be a fan of pro wrestling as it is Post Malone to be a fan of Magic The Gathering.

[stoptheclocks]

If this isn't a boom period, then it's simply not realistic to ever expect there will be another one.

[thecrusherwi]

Apr 10, 2024 5:54:16 GMT -5 eJm said:

Apr 10, 2024 1:18:31 GMT -5 Oh Cry Me a Screwball said:

I don't know about that. It's easy to write off AEW's numbers since they are down from peak-2021 and their TV tapings aren't packing venues, but 800k range for a show that's not 5 years old is still impressive AF, and their PPV events are still success stories in every way. TNA, despite the hype of their re-brand being tainted by the Scott D'Amore firing, is far away from their low points. Other mid-tier promotions like the NWA and MLW may be punchlines at times, but how many rumors are there about them being on death's door like Impact was in 2015?

And then there's the independents, which the "dirtsheets" are massively underreporting. GCW had an impressive Mania weekend where over half of 11 shows were sellouts, often times before a single match was announced. You can't write that off due to Mania weekend, because they are also touring every corner of the US and several international markets and drawing great houses nearly every time.

Moving away from GCW, there's the news that dropped this weekend with DPW, West Coast Pro, and Prestige Wrestling entering an alliance that's generating a lot of hype because the individual promotions are already doing fantastic business in their respective markets. Promotions like Wrestling Revolver and House of Glory are having great success, and have also done crossovers and joint shows with Prestige. A lot of this is being fueled by streaming services like Triller/FITE+ and IWTV reducing the price point of shows from $20 iPPVs to $7-10 a month for their libraries.

And even on a smaller level, a lot of towns are having more and more places to work. Here in Vegas prior to COVID, there was like two places to work and only one would really draw. Now, there's at least five running regularly with loyal followings.

It may not be the Golden Era or the Attitude Era, but with so many options in entertainment, wrestling across the board is doing better than I think people realize.

Honestly, I was about to agree with the Captain's broad point but seeing this...you're right, actually.

Like, we're not talking about a WWF/WCW/ECW style boom and I can't see Roman revered the same way Hogan and Austin were to define that period (for various reasons, some of it being the WWE's business plan not catering for that) but pro wrestling is a part of pop culture. It doesn't dominate or influence but it's a successful niche like many stuff is.

EDIT: It's as normal for Lil Wayne to be a fan of pro wrestling as it is Post Malone to be a fan of Magic The Gathering.

I agree with this. It's definitely a boom, but a different one. It's hard to judge where they are in the zeitgeist since there is so much media that no one can really reach the level Hogan was at in the 80s or even Austin/Rock in the 90s. The guy in Logan Paul's Prime Bottle was supposed to be some star and I had never heard of him in my life. Honestly until they started doing WWE and combat sports, I didn't know the Paul brothers either. It's just so different now. Outside of Taylor Swift and a few others, there are no megastars anymore. Whereas there were many people with Taylor Swift level name recognition in pre-online eras and Hogan was definitely one of them in the 80s and 90s.

But the pro wrestling point is the interesting one. I don't know if it's ever been more accepted by pop culture than it is now. More people knew who Hulk Hogan was in 1985 and they had much more "mainstream" coverage, but half of that coverage was "Can you believe so many idiots are paying money to watch this fake garbage?". It was even worse in the 90s boom. If there was any wrestling coverage outside of the wrestling bubble, it was mostly negative or dismissive. Most of the people who knew about wrestling but weren't watching thought it was trash TV for the lowest rungs of society. Now, WWE has earned a respected place in pop culture and is now viewed more as Star Wars or Marvel or something like that - it's fun entertainment as legitimate as any other. This is the boom that Vince was chasing for 40 years. How ironic that it took people who actually loved and adored wrestling as legitimate entertainment to make Vince's vision a reality after he started losing his hold on the business.

[Deleted]

It is why I said WWE is in a boom period absoloutley but IMO it is not an industry wide boom period like the 80s and 90s were and alot of that is because of how fragmented entertainment is.

So you can't really pinpoint where it lands in the zeitgeist and really how popular it is amongst the larger pop culture landscape because of again how fragmented entertainment is.

One say absoloutley say it is a popular niche though.

[eJm]

Apr 10, 2024 8:22:00 GMT -5 thecrusherwi said:

I agree with this. It's definitely a boom, but a different one. It's hard to judge where they are in the zeitgeist since there is so much media that no one can really reach the level Hogan was at in the 80s or even Austin/Rock in the 90s. The guy in Logan Paul's Prime Bottle was supposed to be some star and I had never heard of him in my life. Honestly until they started doing WWE and combat sports, I didn't know the Paul brothers either. It's just so different now. Outside of Taylor Swift and a few others, there are no megastars anymore. Whereas there were many people with Taylor Swift level name recognition in pre-online eras and Hogan was definitely one of them in the 80s and 90s.

People can get successful in many different ways without even needing a machine backing them (to an extent, YouTube, TikTok etc are still owned by giant companies but most people can use other methods to make money) and the only real megastars are the people and organizations that know how to adapt to those. Dropout, the spin-off streaming service of, and then eventual owners of, CollegeHumor are about 30 minutes from when I post this about to sell pre-release tickets to a Dungeons & Dragons based live show in Madison Square Garden. If your response to that last sentence is "What's any of that about?" then that's exactly my wider point.

But the pro wrestling point is the interesting one. I don't know if it's ever been more accepted by pop culture than it is now. More people knew who Hulk Hogan was in 1985 and they had much more "mainstream" coverage, but half of that coverage was "Can you believe so many idiots are paying money to watch this fake garbage?". It was even worse in the 90s boom. If there was any wrestling coverage outside of the wrestling bubble, it was mostly negative or dismissive. Most of the people who knew about wrestling but weren't watching thought it was trash TV for the lowest rungs of society. Now, WWE has earned a respected place in pop culture and is now viewed more as Star Wars or Marvel or something like that - it's fun entertainment as legitimate as any other. This is the boom that Vince was chasing for 40 years. How ironic that it took people who actually loved and adored wrestling as legitimate entertainment to make Vince's vision a reality after he started losing his hold on the business.

I hate repeating this point but it's true; pro wrestling now can be seen as a very successful niche, a geek interest like Anime/manga, trading card games, Twitch/YouTube streamers etc. It isn't going to be getting the punters all year around, it isn't going to get the attention of other mediums (because most sources will still think of it as garbage because it's fake, because most of those people didn't pay attention to the 1930s when newspapers would write just that) but it's going to make its money off of the people that care about it and at this point, it doesn't need much else. WWE's business model, as much as we talk about "casual audiences" and such, involves fans who know WWE, follow WWE and people going in and out who may not have watched in ages and that's honestly worked out well for them. One Piece, at this point, has the widest fanbase of people who have followed it from Episode/Chapter 1 to Episode/Chapter 1000+ and its success involves catering and satisfying that core base so then people can scream at their friends "READ/WATCH ONE PIECE! JOIN ME!" and Luffy was a damn Thanksgiving Day balloon last year. That sort of targeting works.

And yeah, it is true that there's less "shame" the moment the guy who wanted to be seen as more than a wrestling owner got tossed off his throne. Actual celebrities were at WrestleMania this year like it was the Super Bowl!

[callmekc]

Isn't the fact that more feds are doing well evidence enough that this ISN'T just a WWE thing, and that the business as a whole is booming though? Yeah, it might not be another cultural touchstone but nor is anything in the same way because of how decentralised media is now.

It's really just Japanese feds that are getting cold and that's a symptom of their economic problems and the dollar:yen exchange rate meaning that American feds can outbid them by a considerable margin.

[theironyuppie]

Apr 10, 2024 0:40:09 GMT -5 Bo Rida said:

It's largely a definition thing, like you say previous boom periods were marked by wrestling, or at least its biggest stars, as a central part of pop culture.
They're closer, there's a few things at the edges, mostly Rhea.

One big problem with all wrestling in general is how they preach to the converted. Wwe exploiting whales is an example. Pricing out kids won't help.

But it's certainly a hot, successful, or similar word period.

WM 40 was especially about anointing Cody as the guy, but it also anointed Rhea as the woman: strongly beating Becky, making her reign now the only epic one on the main roster, plus Bayley and Charlotte both putting her over as a top star in their media appearances (as did Michael Cole on the Pat McAfee Show) and having her seated next to Cody at the HOF. Even the new Then Now Forever intro has her as the first 'NOW' star and Cody as the last.

[polarbearpete]

1000%. Ratings can never get to what they were in the late 90s because of the nature of tv and streaming now. But they’ve been bucking the trend of cordcutting for a couple of years now. Live attendance was slowly increasing for a while and now it’s been insane with 17 straight TV sellouts, and house shows doing big business as well. It won’t last forever, but this is definitely a boom.

And it all does coincide timing wise with Cody joining WWE.

[Muskrat]

Apr 10, 2024 8:54:38 GMT -5 polarbearpete said:

1000%. Ratings can never get to what they were in the late 90s because of the nature of tv and streaming now. But they’ve been bucking the trend of cordcutting for a couple of years now. Live attendance was slowly increasing for a while and now it’s been insane with 17 straight TV sellouts, and house shows doing big business as well. It won’t last forever, but this is definitely a boom.

And it all does coincide timing wise with Cody joining WWE.

Cody is absolutely the major catalyst for this, and Roman obviously, but business started increasing during the Sami/Bloodline story so Sami definitely deserves some credit for helping to get the ball rolling. So does Bray Wyatt to be honest, as his return around that time also helped bring eyeballs to the product right as it was heating up.

[fw91]

Idk, I feel like it's still missing some crossover appear into other realms of mainstream media. Like will Cody ever host SNL? Guest appearances outside other sports? Things are in an upswing no doubt, but WWF was everywhere in the attitude era. But of course times have changed, and this could be a dated counterpoint.