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Post by Doo Doo Dickhead on Apr 12, 2024 14:54:21 GMT -5
It’s no more punching down than someone saying “Pepsi sucks, Coke is better” is punching down because Coke has a bigger market share. Anyone who stans for big companies is a f***ing weirdo to begin with. You don't need to call out Disney fan Gigi Dolin out like this.
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Post by HMARK Center on Apr 12, 2024 15:27:36 GMT -5
What are we even talking about anymore?
There's no "punching up/down" here for us as fans: they're both big companies, this isn't exactly standing up for the indies.
But where, in the name of all that is holy, has anyone gotten the idea that "being negative" is in and of itself something you can't do about any show you watch? We just had a multi-page thread after Dynamite last week that was basically a bunch of people saying "man, the booking of that Jay White/Billy Gunn match @#$%ing sucked." We've had a bunch of people saying they don't think it was the right thing to show that Punk footage on Wednesday. Some people say that, some people disagree, go the @#$% ahead.
Some people here are getting overly defensive at times in one case for a reason they need to get over, but in another for a reason that feels pretty legitimate: -The thing to get over? I know that tons of online spaces are borderline deranged right now when it comes to discussions of AEW. Trust me, I've talked to people in positions of responsibility in other wrestling-talk spaces, and they see it to, down to them having to deal with bots and coordinated swarms of over the top negative posting. But if you're posting here, we take care of those things, by and large (I'm sure something could have slipped through the cracks over time). Someone wants to say they thought something didn't work or stunk, let it @#$%ing go. Not every single criticism needs a response, just relax, for God's sake.
-At the same time, the legitimate thing? Not for nothing, but a lot of the negative posting we're dealing with come off like people not watching the show or ignoring entire threads before posting because, my god, the number of times people have had to repeat why something was done, or even what happened on the show (e.g. yes, they used this as a way to set up Perry's return, but you had to watch the Bucks' promo before the clip), was dizzying. Come on in and say why you thought showing it was a bad idea, anyway, that's fine (personally, I think it wasn't really worth doing on Dynamite), talk about why you feel that way, but man alive, if you're not watching the show but jumping into the conversation, consider prefacing a post with "hey, I don't watch, but..." or "could someone who does watch clear this up?", or at bare minimum just read the damn thread before posting or something.
In other words: critiques and not enjoying something isn't unwarranted negativity, but coming into a thread to shit on something you not only didn't watch (it's ok to have opinions on things you didn't see...just preface it with that fact!), but are also actively ignoring all context and literally ignoring facts for, actively harms our conversations here.
This week sucks.
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Post by Jaws the Shark on Apr 12, 2024 16:16:48 GMT -5
Anti+AEW posts on Twitter are bots, on here its bad faith concern trolling, AEW fans don't have Neilsen boxes, wrestling commentators are all in the pocket of WWE, Jim Cornette fans buy tickets to chant at AEW shows, Dave Meltzer hates AEW. There may be an element of truth to all of those things, but equally they get used to deflect against genuine criticisms of AEW. Like the fact that there was a hugely negative reaction to what they did on Dynamite was, even after you strip away all of the above, because a lot of people just thought it was stupid and backfired. Sometimes you've just got to accept it and move on. What's mad is that you have posters on here pulling their hair out over people being mean about AEW, who then do nothing but post negatively about WWE. As has been said, anyone who thinks AEW gets shit on now, clearly hasn't been on any WWE board for long. The problem stems from the fact that those criticisms are self-justified as being correct, so fair game. I'm personally not sure what the people, specifically on twitter, reddit etc get out of defending the market leader and pining for companies to go out of business, get out of doing that. To me that is just ridiculous behavior it's like what is the gain there? Both platforms are ram packed with angry nerds trying to convince other angry nerds that they're not angry nerds. If you love WWE then you're not like those smark neckbeards who watch AEW, and if you watch AEW you're not like those casuals who watch WWE, or something. It's f***ing tiring.
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khali
Dennis Stamp
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Post by khali on Apr 12, 2024 16:44:50 GMT -5
The thread about the Bucks releasing the footage was the first time this board felt it was overrun with the type of trolls you’d see on Twitter and elsewhere. Before the show, every page had some post of “why are they promoting a guy not on the show, what’s the angle here” despite everyone explaining it, and afterwards every page had “Omg is that what made TK fear for his life,” even though everyone said that was a separate incident. Hopefully there won’t be clear examples of just parachuting in to make low effort negative posts that ignore every other post again.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Apr 12, 2024 17:22:41 GMT -5
The thread about the Bucks releasing the footage was the first time this board felt it was overrun with the type of trolls you’d see on Twitter and elsewhere. Before the show, every page had some post of “why are they promoting a guy not on the show, what’s the angle here” despite everyone explaining it, and afterwards every page had “Omg is that what made TK fear for his life,” even though everyone said that was a separate incident. Hopefully there won’t be clear examples of just parachuting in to make low effort negative posts that ignore every other post again. My favorite was "Lol that wasn't a sucker punch Punk just kicked his ass" which also proved I think some people are just like... legally blind?
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cosmo
Unicron
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Post by cosmo on Apr 12, 2024 17:26:43 GMT -5
Can we go back to that brief period where the only thing really worth complaining about over the last week was that the Usos match at Mania was kinda meh?
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Post by Final Countdown Jones on Apr 12, 2024 17:27:02 GMT -5
I kind of love how in this thread with multiple screenshots showing what is by any justifiable behavior metric or reason-to-be, people doing copy/paste specific anti-AEW posts, we're still litigating how the AEW section is full of sensitive babies who don't like when anyone whispers a lukewarm take about Dynamite, and are cookign up conspiracy theories about it. Like, we're right back into "ugh all these claims of bad faith trolls" in a place where accounts have shown up solely to baitpost ratings threads. Some people aren't on the AEW board to talk about AEW, but to use any opportunity to complain about the AEW board.
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UN PLOMBIER NIGHTMARE #blm
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Post by UN PLOMBIER NIGHTMARE #blm on Apr 12, 2024 17:27:57 GMT -5
Can we go back to that brief period where the only thing really worth complaining about over the last week was that the Usos match at Mania was kinda meh?
that deserved a daddy ass vs jay white type thread but i'd already bitched about how bad it was for like an hour lmao
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Apr 12, 2024 17:37:38 GMT -5
I kind of love how in this thread with multiple screenshots showing what is by any justifiable behavior metric or reason-to-be, people doing copy/paste specific anti-AEW posts, we're still litigating how the AEW section is full of sensitive babies who don't like when anyone whispers a lukewarm take about Dynamite, and are cookign up conspiracy theories about it. Like, we're right back into "ugh all these claims of bad faith trolls" in a place where accounts have shown up solely to baitpost ratings threads. Some people aren't on the AEW board to talk about AEW, but to use any opportunity to complain about the AEW board. I wish I could like this 100 times Like seriously I'm so exhausted at people who have to play devil's advocate for negative takes, we're not saying ALL BAD AEW TAKES ARE BAD FAITH But if you're on this Board and you see the patterns some posters on this Board will do whether it's only saying negative stuff, sometimes whole threads started just for discourse for the sake of discourse, only baiting, or only shadow liking negative takes, and that's it, no positive commentary, positive comments on anything about the show, no comments in live threads, nothing ever balanced or fair... it's really not a shock people are tired of it, when it's been a pattern for well over a year in some cases.
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khali
Dennis Stamp
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Post by khali on Apr 12, 2024 18:01:54 GMT -5
I kind of love how in this thread with multiple screenshots showing what is by any justifiable behavior metric or reason-to-be, people doing copy/paste specific anti-AEW posts, we're still litigating how the AEW section is full of sensitive babies who don't like when anyone whispers a lukewarm take about Dynamite, and are cookign up conspiracy theories about it. Like, we're right back into "ugh all these claims of bad faith trolls" in a place where accounts have shown up solely to baitpost ratings threads. Some people aren't on the AEW board to talk about AEW, but to use any opportunity to complain about the AEW board. Look, I hate to say it, but the facts are clear: you can’t say anything bad about AEW on here. I just tried to type something negative about Billy Gunn/Jay White and they kidnapped my dog as a result.
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Post by "Cane Dewey" Johnson on Apr 12, 2024 18:13:22 GMT -5
I kind of love how in this thread with multiple screenshots showing what is by any justifiable behavior metric or reason-to-be, people doing copy/paste specific anti-AEW posts, we're still litigating how the AEW section is full of sensitive babies who don't like when anyone whispers a lukewarm take about Dynamite, and are cookign up conspiracy theories about it. Like, we're right back into "ugh all these claims of bad faith trolls" in a place where accounts have shown up solely to baitpost ratings threads. Some people aren't on the AEW board to talk about AEW, but to use any opportunity to complain about the AEW board. Look, I hate to say it, but the facts are clear: you can’t say anything bad about AEW on here. Reading this thread, the thought occurred to me that just because people post positive takes about AEW doesn't mean that they actually do so from a position of good faith. It's a mistake to assume that "positive take"="good faith." I think this needs to be said about the discourse (TM) because it's very easy only to focus on the negative takes as bad faith. (Not all, but enough: I typed "bad faith" into the search bar in this AEW section and got 2 full pages of threads that date back at least a couple of years.) I just tried to type something negative about Billy Gunn/Jay White and they kidnapped my dog as a result.
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Post by carp (SPC, Itoh Respect Army) on Apr 12, 2024 18:18:19 GMT -5
I know the real purpose is to make it so unpleasant to talk about AEW online that fans have nowhere to converge and, when they do, they're all in a terrible mood. But I keep thinking about the content, what's actually being said. The thing that gets me there is the fact that the major message is "AEW is unpopular and struggling and losing." Nothing close to an argument about the quality of AEW's shows, nothing really about AEW at all. Which, to the extent it's a cynical ploy to drive people away from AEW... eh. It's empirically shown that one of the best ways to get people to stop doing something is to tell them no one does it. But it steps on your own feet to flood everything with people talking about AEW, while trying to convince people no one cares about AEW.
But to the extent it's genuine, I honestly have a really hard time wrapping my head around it. Is it supposed to instill schadenfreude among people who prefer the WWE? If so, why isn't anyone talking about the morally egregious things they think AEW has done to warrant hating enough to get schadenfreude from their struggles? Is it supposed to somehow make AEW fans feel bad about themselves, as if it was inherently bad to prefer a less popular option?
This is the thing I think people were keying in on with the "punching down" idea. I agree that concept doesn't really fit, but the FORM of the trolling, when you try to parse it out, really does have an element that's sort of... culturally authoritarian, maybe? An undertone of "it's good to like things everyone likes, the things I find comfortable and I'm used to, the winners. If someone comes along and tries to challenge a winner, particularly if they seem strange or weird, that is inherently a reprehensible act."
I hope it goes without saying, but I'm talking specifically only about the trolls, and even then I acknowledge a lot of their motives are pure cynicism. But I don't think it's an accident that these tinges are there. You can't loathe a company that much and have it just be about wrestling.
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Post by Final Countdown Jones on Apr 12, 2024 18:24:53 GMT -5
And just to be clear, the "brand new account guy who shows up to bait and troll after something happens" isn't new. I watched people roused by some of the bleakest PPVs of the early '10s to make accounts despite being "long time lurkers" only so they could immediately go after oter posters and post inflammatory garbage. But like it sucked when it happened on the WWE board, too. If Raw did an okay enough rating that there wasn't much to talk about and it only went to like a page and a half, there's people who would post "OH I GUESS NOBODY WANTS TO TALK ABOUT RATINGS WHEN THEY AREN'T TERRIBLE HUH" and accuse people of only dunking on the bad weeks, when those bad weeks were them losing a million viewers year on year, over what was the defense of just truly heinous television. Like not just an okay episode of Raw or a kinda cold period. LIke actually terrible, borderline unwatchable shit. THere's some real rose-tinted shit going on if we're now saying the WWE section pre-AEW didn't have issues too and that it's just sensitive AEW babies inventing boogeymen. You also had like, normal-er kinds of dislike? Raw was hilariously bad and you'd have people going 'Wow damn that was a bad show' and most of the verbotten AEW criticism or whatever tends to not even engage with the show. There's people who want to talk a lot about the AEW section or about the company but who almost never drop like. An opinion about a match. An episode. Something to dislike. A thing that says they actually perceived a moment of it. And you could say that about the WWE section back then, sure, but every week there'd be threads about things that happened that night and people would dunk on the bad stuff because they actually experienced it. It wasn't this lopsided.
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Post by yokohamacpfc on Apr 12, 2024 18:52:14 GMT -5
At the end of the day us and the trolls are heading towards the same destination and we'll end there earlier than we like. We will all end up staring at a whitewashed wall in an old folks home with a body that has betrayed us, forgotten by the world, and awaiting our eternal reward. The one consolation during those days will be the memories of the times we are now living in.
Some of us will have memories of traveling the world, meeting the love of our lives, positively influencing our communities and circles, and finding a passion that expands our horizons and motivates us to degrees of self-improvement we didn't think were possible.
Others will have memories of spraying an iPad screen with spittal as they rage about a fake fighting company they don't like for magic internet points.
Choose carefully, they're no refunds.
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Rubix Cube Johnny
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Post by Rubix Cube Johnny on Apr 12, 2024 19:02:15 GMT -5
Honestly twitter (and increasing more social media) is basically just Dead Internet theory personified.
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Post by THE FVNKER on Apr 12, 2024 19:21:16 GMT -5
So…
Is now when we divert this thread’s topic to food items we like or does it still have to go on for a little longer?
I have a cheat snack/meal on Fridays every week for the time being and I bought a bag of chocolate covered pretzels today. Hershey’s brand. Absolutely spectacular.
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Johnny Flamingo
Hank Scorpio
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Post by Johnny Flamingo on Apr 12, 2024 19:25:15 GMT -5
As the person who started this thread the original intent had nothing to do with posters on this board.
It was more about people using twitter/facebook and other social media to drive the narrative that AEW is “bad”. That’s it.
It did evolve from that original intent which is ok as I think there were some good discussion involved.
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Burst
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Post by Burst on Apr 12, 2024 20:09:26 GMT -5
I think what's been the most exhausting is that 9 times out of 10 it's literally the same arguments over and over and over and over again, both within the same thread and just repeatedly on these boards, like someone took the 2010 Raw approach of feeling like they needed to re-remind everybody after every other commercial break.
It's like how any new debut or even guest appearance gets the "I don't know who this is therefore nobody knows who they are and AEW is losing fans" while completely ignoring any introductory context given during the show itself, along with the inevitable goalpost moving about well what's actually good enough.
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Post by Cyno on Apr 12, 2024 20:15:05 GMT -5
I think what's been the most exhausting is that 9 times out of 10 it's literally the same arguments over and over and over and over again, both within the same thread and just repeatedly on these boards, like someone took the 2010 Raw approach of feeling like they needed to re-remind everybody after every other commercial break. It's like how any new debut or even guest appearance gets the "I don't know who this is therefore nobody knows who they are and AEW is losing fans" while completely ignoring any introductory context given during the show itself, along with the inevitable goalpost moving about well what's actually good enough. God I hate that shit, especially. Though my likely ADHD brain loves diving into the deep end of the internet pool to see what new guys from Japan, Mexico, or elsewhere are like.
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Post by yokohamacpfc on Apr 12, 2024 20:25:37 GMT -5
FWIW I was referring to twitter/reddit discourse. Other than 2-3 posters (who only post now and then) I find most of the discussion on this website to be civil and positive regardless of company preference.
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