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Post by LiamMcDuggle on Apr 12, 2024 20:36:42 GMT -5
I am a fairly casual wrestling fan and peak in. When I do watch AEW, I am always entertained.
However, from my POV any time you critique anything regarding AEW, the fans become so tribal it just drives casuals away. Like what is your goal? Shaming people to watch the product more?
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ASYLUMHAUSEN
Fry's dog Seymour
GIFs | Shitposts | Fun
Posts: 24,499
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Post by ASYLUMHAUSEN on Apr 12, 2024 20:40:36 GMT -5
I kind of love how in this thread with multiple screenshots showing what is by any justifiable behavior metric or reason-to-be, people doing copy/paste specific anti-AEW posts, we're still litigating how the AEW section is full of sensitive babies who don't like when anyone whispers a lukewarm take about Dynamite, and are cookign up conspiracy theories about it. Like, we're right back into "ugh all these claims of bad faith trolls" in a place where accounts have shown up solely to baitpost ratings threads. Some people aren't on the AEW board to talk about AEW, but to use any opportunity to complain about the AEW board. My favorite sub genre of this this week has been people trying to make a big deal out of a smattering of CM punk chants at the show Wednesday while completely ignoring the info from people in the f***ing building while also saying no one was at the show because the max capacity of the venue is 4 times bigger than the published attendance figure…completely ignoring that the venue was set up for a specific capacity and was at least 90-95% sold out for the capacity it was configured for (and that’s straight from a building employee I talked to on Wednesday night) But hey, what do I know. It’s not like I was there or anything….
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Post by polarbearpete on Apr 12, 2024 20:41:43 GMT -5
What are we even talking about anymore? There's no "punching up/down" here for us as fans: they're both big companies, this isn't exactly standing up for the indies. But where, in the name of all that is holy, has anyone gotten the idea that "being negative" is in and of itself something you can't do about any show you watch? We just had a multi-page thread after Dynamite last week that was basically a bunch of people saying "man, the booking of that Jay White/Billy Gunn match @#$%ing sucked." We've had a bunch of people saying they don't think it was the right thing to show that Punk footage on Wednesday. Some people say that, some people disagree, go the @#$% ahead. Some people here are getting overly defensive at times in one case for a reason they need to get over, but in another for a reason that feels pretty legitimate: -The thing to get over? I know that tons of online spaces are borderline deranged right now when it comes to discussions of AEW. Trust me, I've talked to people in positions of responsibility in other wrestling-talk spaces, and they see it to, down to them having to deal with bots and coordinated swarms of over the top negative posting. But if you're posting here, we take care of those things, by and large (I'm sure something could have slipped through the cracks over time). Someone wants to say they thought something didn't work or stunk, let it @#$%ing go. Not every single criticism needs a response, just relax, for God's sake. -At the same time, the legitimate thing? Not for nothing, but a lot of the negative posting we're dealing with come off like people not watching the show or ignoring entire threads before posting because, my god, the number of times people have had to repeat why something was done, or even what happened on the show (e.g. yes, they used this as a way to set up Perry's return, but you had to watch the Bucks' promo before the clip), was dizzying. Come on in and say why you thought showing it was a bad idea, anyway, that's fine (personally, I think it wasn't really worth doing on Dynamite), talk about why you feel that way, but man alive, if you're not watching the show but jumping into the conversation, consider prefacing a post with "hey, I don't watch, but..." or "could someone who does watch clear this up?", or at bare minimum just read the damn thread before posting or something. In other words: critiques and not enjoying something isn't unwarranted negativity, but coming into a thread to shit on something you not only didn't watch (it's ok to have opinions on things you didn't see...just preface it with that fact!), but are also actively ignoring all context and literally ignoring facts for, actively harms our conversations here. This week sucks. Agreed with this, but it should definitely go for those posting in WWE threads with criticisms of the product that they don’t watch as well, when they too are ignoring facts etc. Just a few days back I replied to a post of a mod who doesn’t watch saying that actually watching weekly WWE does do some things now that the mod said they did not and I said it was untrue, and was met with a “sure it is” dismissive response, which replied only to the part of me saying it was not true and left out the list of reasons why from my post.
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ASYLUMHAUSEN
Fry's dog Seymour
GIFs | Shitposts | Fun
Posts: 24,499
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Post by ASYLUMHAUSEN on Apr 12, 2024 20:47:41 GMT -5
What are we even talking about anymore? There's no "punching up/down" here for us as fans: they're both big companies, this isn't exactly standing up for the indies. But where, in the name of all that is holy, has anyone gotten the idea that "being negative" is in and of itself something you can't do about any show you watch? We just had a multi-page thread after Dynamite last week that was basically a bunch of people saying "man, the booking of that Jay White/Billy Gunn match @#$%ing sucked." We've had a bunch of people saying they don't think it was the right thing to show that Punk footage on Wednesday. Some people say that, some people disagree, go the @#$% ahead. Some people here are getting overly defensive at times in one case for a reason they need to get over, but in another for a reason that feels pretty legitimate: -The thing to get over? I know that tons of online spaces are borderline deranged right now when it comes to discussions of AEW. Trust me, I've talked to people in positions of responsibility in other wrestling-talk spaces, and they see it to, down to them having to deal with bots and coordinated swarms of over the top negative posting. But if you're posting here, we take care of those things, by and large (I'm sure something could have slipped through the cracks over time). Someone wants to say they thought something didn't work or stunk, let it @#$%ing go. Not every single criticism needs a response, just relax, for God's sake. -At the same time, the legitimate thing? Not for nothing, but a lot of the negative posting we're dealing with come off like people not watching the show or ignoring entire threads before posting because, my god, the number of times people have had to repeat why something was done, or even what happened on the show (e.g. yes, they used this as a way to set up Perry's return, but you had to watch the Bucks' promo before the clip), was dizzying. Come on in and say why you thought showing it was a bad idea, anyway, that's fine (personally, I think it wasn't really worth doing on Dynamite), talk about why you feel that way, but man alive, if you're not watching the show but jumping into the conversation, consider prefacing a post with "hey, I don't watch, but..." or "could someone who does watch clear this up?", or at bare minimum just read the damn thread before posting or something. In other words: critiques and not enjoying something isn't unwarranted negativity, but coming into a thread to shit on something you not only didn't watch (it's ok to have opinions on things you didn't see...just preface it with that fact!), but are also actively ignoring all context and literally ignoring facts for, actively harms our conversations here. This week sucks. Agreed with this, but it should definitely go for those posting in WWE threads with criticisms of the product that they don’t watch as well, when they too are ignoring facts etc. Just a few days back I replied to a post of a mod who doesn’t watch saying that actually watching weekly WWE does do some things now that the mod said they did not and I said it was untrue, and was met with a “sure it is” dismissive response, which replied only to the part of me saying it was not true and left out the list of reasons why from my post. I keep up with WWE through a half dozen different ways and do, occasionally, pop in to catch at least some of a show…and I do generally watch the big PLEs (that aren’t Saudi based) because those have historically been very good the last few years. You know what I don’t do? Pop into the WWE forum and let the ol shit talk fingers fly save for the occasional stop in a live thread (at least general speaking) It’s not hard to do that either. Now, if only the Tennis Racket Enthusiast Stans, Punk Syncophants, etc could do the same… (This is not directed at you specifically. I just quoted your post to add my own color. For what it’s worth? I don’t always agree with everything you post that I’ve seen BUT you’re generally respectful in my experience and not just regurgitating the same tired shit I see elsewhere.)
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Post by Final Countdown Jones on Apr 12, 2024 20:56:52 GMT -5
I kind of love how in this thread with multiple screenshots showing what is by any justifiable behavior metric or reason-to-be, people doing copy/paste specific anti-AEW posts, we're still litigating how the AEW section is full of sensitive babies who don't like when anyone whispers a lukewarm take about Dynamite, and are cookign up conspiracy theories about it. Like, we're right back into "ugh all these claims of bad faith trolls" in a place where accounts have shown up solely to baitpost ratings threads. Some people aren't on the AEW board to talk about AEW, but to use any opportunity to complain about the AEW board. My favorite sub genre of this this week has been people trying to make a big deal out of a smattering of CM punk chants at the show Wednesday while completely ignoring the info from people in the f***ing building while also saying no one was at the show because the max capacity of the venue is 4 times bigger than the published attendance figure…completely ignoring that the venue was set up for a specific capacity and was at least 90-95% sold out for the capacity it was configured for (and that’s straight from a building employee I talked to on Wednesday night) But hey, what do I know. It’s not like I was there or anything…. Nobody was there which means you weren't there who even are you I don't think you're a real poster, I'm just tripping on this cough medicine
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ASYLUMHAUSEN
Fry's dog Seymour
GIFs | Shitposts | Fun
Posts: 24,499
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Post by ASYLUMHAUSEN on Apr 12, 2024 21:00:57 GMT -5
My favorite sub genre of this this week has been people trying to make a big deal out of a smattering of CM punk chants at the show Wednesday while completely ignoring the info from people in the f***ing building while also saying no one was at the show because the max capacity of the venue is 4 times bigger than the published attendance figure…completely ignoring that the venue was set up for a specific capacity and was at least 90-95% sold out for the capacity it was configured for (and that’s straight from a building employee I talked to on Wednesday night) But hey, what do I know. It’s not like I was there or anything…. Nobody was there which means you weren't there who even are you I don't think you're a real poster, I'm just tripping on this cough medicine Shit share some of that with me. I want to taste colors too…
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Woo
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 5,306
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Post by Woo on Apr 12, 2024 22:33:36 GMT -5
Can we go back to that brief period where the only thing really worth complaining about over the last week was that the Usos match at Mania was kinda meh?
I was having a good day. Now I've remembered that match and I'm annoyed. For all the crap the Young Bucks get for spamming superkicks (sometimes not undeservedly) that Uso match was worse than anything that I've seen. As for the bots, there may be some truth to that here, but people also need to understand that when there is a big event in wrestling, it will draw new eyes towards it and posters who don't often post will do so. This week AEW has achieved their goal of getting people to talk about it.
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Sparkybob
King Koopa
I have a status?
Posts: 10,992
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Post by Sparkybob on Apr 13, 2024 8:27:59 GMT -5
What are we even talking about anymore? There's no "punching up/down" here for us as fans: they're both big companies, this isn't exactly standing up for the indies. But where, in the name of all that is holy, has anyone gotten the idea that "being negative" is in and of itself something you can't do about any show you watch? We just had a multi-page thread after Dynamite last week that was basically a bunch of people saying "man, the booking of that Jay White/Billy Gunn match @#$%ing sucked." We've had a bunch of people saying they don't think it was the right thing to show that Punk footage on Wednesday. Some people say that, some people disagree, go the @#$% ahead. Some people here are getting overly defensive at times in one case for a reason they need to get over, but in another for a reason that feels pretty legitimate: -The thing to get over? I know that tons of online spaces are borderline deranged right now when it comes to discussions of AEW. Trust me, I've talked to people in positions of responsibility in other wrestling-talk spaces, and they see it to, down to them having to deal with bots and coordinated swarms of over the top negative posting. But if you're posting here, we take care of those things, by and large (I'm sure something could have slipped through the cracks over time). Someone wants to say they thought something didn't work or stunk, let it @#$%ing go. Not every single criticism needs a response, just relax, for God's sake. -At the same time, the legitimate thing? Not for nothing, but a lot of the negative posting we're dealing with come off like people not watching the show or ignoring entire threads before posting because, my god, the number of times people have had to repeat why something was done, or even what happened on the show (e.g. yes, they used this as a way to set up Perry's return, but you had to watch the Bucks' promo before the clip), was dizzying. Come on in and say why you thought showing it was a bad idea, anyway, that's fine (personally, I think it wasn't really worth doing on Dynamite), talk about why you feel that way, but man alive, if you're not watching the show but jumping into the conversation, consider prefacing a post with "hey, I don't watch, but..." or "could someone who does watch clear this up?", or at bare minimum just read the damn thread before posting or something. In other words: critiques and not enjoying something isn't unwarranted negativity, but coming into a thread to shit on something you not only didn't watch (it's ok to have opinions on things you didn't see...just preface it with that fact!), but are also actively ignoring all context and literally ignoring facts for, actively harms our conversations here. This week sucks. Agreed with this, but it should definitely go for those posting in WWE threads with criticisms of the product that they don’t watch as well, when they too are ignoring facts etc. Just a few days back I replied to a post of a mod who doesn’t watch saying that actually watching weekly WWE does do some things now that the mod said they did not and I said it was untrue, and was met with a “sure it is” dismissive response, which replied only to the part of me saying it was not true and left out the list of reasons why from my post. Yeah that was a very dismissive comment that if a "normal" user post it will be considered on the trolly side.
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markymark
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Posts: 18,516
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Post by markymark on Apr 14, 2024 15:35:11 GMT -5
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Post by Doo Doo Dickhead on Apr 14, 2024 16:02:00 GMT -5
Anyone who can get cheered, let alone dueling chants against Toni Storm right now obviously has something.
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Post by HMARK Center on Apr 14, 2024 16:48:13 GMT -5
You also had like, normal-er kinds of dislike? Raw was hilariously bad and you'd have people going 'Wow damn that was a bad show' and most of the verbotten AEW criticism or whatever tends to not even engage with the show. There's people who want to talk a lot about the AEW section or about the company but who almost never drop like. An opinion about a match. An episode. Something to dislike. A thing that says they actually perceived a moment of it. And you could say that about the WWE section back then, sure, but every week there'd be threads about things that happened that night and people would dunk on the bad stuff because they actually experienced it. It wasn't this lopsided. That last point is definitely something that's jumped out to me in the wider wrestle-talk ecosystem; "normal" post-show positivity or negativity usually revolves around talking about actual aspects of the show that were good, sucked, or were funny for people. We got some of that with the White/Gunn match thread, for sure, but AEW gets so much more "discourse", instead, both here and elsewhere; there's nothing inherently wrong with that, such conversations can be really interesting if they're open and informed, but it's weird when it seems to happen to the exclusion of discussing aspects of an individual show, itself. Saw it elsewhere in relation to last night's show: most AEW fans seemed to like it quite a bit, but instead of individual things like specific matches or characters being discussed the conversation is back to "there are no stories" vs. "there are plenty of stories", or "too many ROH titles" vs. "why do you care about that", etc., which seems to enter the "discourse" side of the ledger.
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Apr 15, 2024 2:01:13 GMT -5
I can't fathom how pathetic you have to be to set up a bot to argue online about wrestling. At least porn bots make you money somehow
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Post by Jaws the Shark on Apr 15, 2024 3:41:16 GMT -5
I can't fathom how pathetic you have to be to set up a bot to argue online about wrestling. At least porn bots make you money somehow It's basically why I don't discuss wrestling online anywhere but here. The sheer amount of dweebery involved in it and the constant shit fight over whose corporate entity is best and whose is shit is so unbelievably disheartening. Even actual legitimate sports have more reasoned and rational discourse surrounding them than wrestling.
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Post by jean0987654321 on Apr 15, 2024 15:35:16 GMT -5
I can't fathom how pathetic you have to be to set up a bot to argue online about wrestling. At least porn bots make you money somehow It's basically why I don't discuss wrestling online anywhere but here. The sheer amount of dweebery involved in it and the constant shit fight over whose corporate entity is best and whose is shit is so unbelievably disheartening. Even actual legitimate sports have more reasoned and rational discourse surrounding them than wrestling. Yeah...I only have a couple of places really to talk about wrestling and this is one of them. I'm on Twitter too but that place is not for discussion. It's more useful for finding porn than it is to discuss anything
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ASYLUMHAUSEN
Fry's dog Seymour
GIFs | Shitposts | Fun
Posts: 24,499
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Post by ASYLUMHAUSEN on Apr 16, 2024 15:10:39 GMT -5
You also had like, normal-er kinds of dislike? Raw was hilariously bad and you'd have people going 'Wow damn that was a bad show' and most of the verbotten AEW criticism or whatever tends to not even engage with the show. There's people who want to talk a lot about the AEW section or about the company but who almost never drop like. An opinion about a match. An episode. Something to dislike. A thing that says they actually perceived a moment of it. And you could say that about the WWE section back then, sure, but every week there'd be threads about things that happened that night and people would dunk on the bad stuff because they actually experienced it. It wasn't this lopsided. That last point is definitely something that's jumped out to me in the wider wrestle-talk ecosystem; "normal" post-show positivity or negativity usually revolves around talking about actual aspects of the show that were good, sucked, or were funny for people. We got some of that with the White/Gunn match thread, for sure, but AEW gets so much more "discourse", instead, both here and elsewhere; there's nothing inherently wrong with that, such conversations can be really interesting if they're open and informed, but it's weird when it seems to happen to the exclusion of discussing aspects of an individual show, itself. Saw it elsewhere in relation to last night's show: most AEW fans seemed to like it quite a bit, but instead of individual things like specific matches or characters being discussed the conversation is back to "there are no stories" vs. "there are plenty of stories", or "too many ROH titles" vs. "why do you care about that", etc., which seems to enter the "discourse" side of the ledger. To me the “sweet spot” was that time frame, pre-AEW, where Raw live threads were an exercise in endurance while also being about 40% a sort of Dadaist array of memes, shit posts & MST3King the events of the show while Smackdown live threads were similar but for that glorious stretch where we had things like the “commentary table of ever growing comically big size” or whatever it was we called it. Post-AEW creation wrestling discussion has…pivoted hard the complete other direction. There are a lot of factors for that (some wrestling related at least loosely, some a byproduct of a cultural shift outside the wrestling bubble toward total toxicity) I guess my point is if the discussions could pivot BACK without going back to a bullshit monopoly? That’d be swell.
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Post by polarbearpete on Apr 16, 2024 15:26:56 GMT -5
That last point is definitely something that's jumped out to me in the wider wrestle-talk ecosystem; "normal" post-show positivity or negativity usually revolves around talking about actual aspects of the show that were good, sucked, or were funny for people. We got some of that with the White/Gunn match thread, for sure, but AEW gets so much more "discourse", instead, both here and elsewhere; there's nothing inherently wrong with that, such conversations can be really interesting if they're open and informed, but it's weird when it seems to happen to the exclusion of discussing aspects of an individual show, itself. Saw it elsewhere in relation to last night's show: most AEW fans seemed to like it quite a bit, but instead of individual things like specific matches or characters being discussed the conversation is back to "there are no stories" vs. "there are plenty of stories", or "too many ROH titles" vs. "why do you care about that", etc., which seems to enter the "discourse" side of the ledger. To me the “sweet spot” was that time frame, pre-AEW, where Raw live threads were an exercise in endurance while also being about 40% a sort of Dadaist array of memes, shit posts & MST3King the events of the show while Smackdown live threads were similar but for that glorious stretch where we had things like the “commentary table of ever growing comically big size” or whatever it was we called it. Post-AEW creation wrestling discussion has…pivoted hard the complete other direction. There are a lot of factors for that (some wrestling related at least loosely, some a byproduct of a cultural shift outside the wrestling bubble toward total toxicity) I guess my point is if the discussions could pivot BACK without going back to a bullshit monopoly? That’d be swell. Think we need more photoshop threads.
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Post by yokohamacpfc on Apr 17, 2024 0:38:02 GMT -5
I am a fairly casual wrestling fan and peak in. When I do watch AEW, I am always entertained. However, from my POV any time you critique anything regarding AEW, the fans become so tribal it just drives casuals away. Like what is your goal? Shaming people to watch the product more? Criticize AEW’s booking and you get a six paragraph (eight if you’re a woman) “Ackchyually…” essay explaining why you are wrong. Criticize WWE’s booking and you get fully grown men in their 30s and 40s screaming and crying in rage. Pay your money and take your choice.
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markymark
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Posts: 18,516
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Post by markymark on Apr 19, 2024 10:47:47 GMT -5
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Post by polarbearpete on Apr 19, 2024 11:16:20 GMT -5
Those must be the AEW-positive bots
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Post by Final Countdown Jones on Apr 19, 2024 11:59:23 GMT -5
twitter has a ton of non-wrestling related bots who just post AI nonsense under replies. It's one of the biggest issues with the site right now; if you peek their profiles, you see stuff like this (this is one of the reply bots in the image) It's the separate, broader-twitter-bot issue that isn't the AEW bot issue, but is still annoying regardless.
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