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Post by sonofkwang on May 21, 2007 14:53:58 GMT -5
Ok I didn't want to disclose a lot of personal info about me here but I'll say this... in my line of work I talk to clients everyday...I talk to about 2k people a month about finance...and when you talk finance you really have to be cool with someone and make them comfortable... so things like football, baseball, wrestling, MMA...that comes up all the time... and I'm talking I'm rapping with people in all 50 states...people know who Cena is. When I was going to Mania there were people who didn't watch wrestling who knew about it, knew about the hair vs. hair match and knew about John Cena. I feel, imo, he is a mainstream celeb. Maybe I'm wrong. But in my experience, he is. People know who the guy is. I just don't feel like Bret Hart (who I was as big a fan of then as I am of Cena now) had that kind of power. Do I think anyone who doesn't agree with me is wrong or anyone who thinks Cena passing Hart is wrong for feeling that way... No of course not. I'm just stating my case as to why I think the guy deserves the spot and I'm happy for him. Be cool. swarm I'm the President of the United States and I have the CIA investigate who does and doesn't know about John Cena on a weekly basis. And weekly briefings tell me that hardly anyone knows who he is... :-) Anecdotal evidence is as anecdotal evidence does.
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Swarm
Don Corleone
SWARM = RATINGS
Posts: 1,347
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Post by Swarm on May 21, 2007 14:54:16 GMT -5
Half of the crowds in the country booed Mike Tyson, Micheal Jordan, Barry Bonds...but they paid to see them. Same with Cena. Doesn't make him any less of a star. The fact is, for a guy like me, John Cena no longer holds any interest for me, because I'm no longer 8-years old and I'm not a desperately lonely woman. Show me where this is what his fan base is made of.
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Post by sonofkwang on May 21, 2007 14:55:30 GMT -5
Listen, don't get condescending with me because your logic is flimsy. Your argument is that he's such a big cross-over star because he was in a movie. No, it's not. You need to go back and read the whole thread. If your logic isn't flimsy then where's your counter argument?
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Swarm
Don Corleone
SWARM = RATINGS
Posts: 1,347
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Post by Swarm on May 21, 2007 14:55:54 GMT -5
Ok I didn't want to disclose a lot of personal info about me here but I'll say this... in my line of work I talk to clients everyday...I talk to about 2k people a month about finance...and when you talk finance you really have to be cool with someone and make them comfortable... so things like football, baseball, wrestling, MMA...that comes up all the time... and I'm talking I'm rapping with people in all 50 states...people know who Cena is. When I was going to Mania there were people who didn't watch wrestling who knew about it, knew about the hair vs. hair match and knew about John Cena. I feel, imo, he is a mainstream celeb. Maybe I'm wrong. But in my experience, he is. People know who the guy is. I just don't feel like Bret Hart (who I was as big a fan of then as I am of Cena now) had that kind of power. Do I think anyone who doesn't agree with me is wrong or anyone who thinks Cena passing Hart is wrong for feeling that way... No of course not. I'm just stating my case as to why I think the guy deserves the spot and I'm happy for him. Be cool. swarm I'm the President of the United States and I have the CIA investigate who does and doesn't know about John Cena on a weekly basis. And weekly briefings tell me that hardly anyone knows who he is... :-) Anecdotal evidence is as anecdotal evidence does. Ok man. You hate Cena. I get it. It's cool.
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Cranjis McBasketball
Crow T. Robot
Knew what the hell that thing was supposed to be
Peace Love and Nothing But
Posts: 41,975
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Post by Cranjis McBasketball on May 21, 2007 14:56:12 GMT -5
Ok I didn't want to disclose a lot of personal info about me here but I'll say this... in my line of work I talk to clients everyday...I talk to about 2k people a month about finance...and when you talk finance you really have to be cool with someone and make them comfortable... so things like football, baseball, wrestling, MMA...that comes up all the time... and I'm talking I'm rapping with people in all 50 states...people know who Cena is. When I was going to Mania there were people who didn't watch wrestling who knew about it, knew about the hair vs. hair match and knew about John Cena. I feel, imo, he is a mainstream celeb. Maybe I'm wrong. But in my experience, he is. People know who the guy is. I just don't feel like Bret Hart (who I was as big a fan of then as I am of Cena now) had that kind of power. Do I think anyone who doesn't agree with me is wrong or anyone who thinks Cena passing Hart is wrong for feeling that way... No of course not. I'm just stating my case as to why I think the guy deserves the spot and I'm happy for him. Be cool. swarm But if those people don't watch wrestling.....he doesn't really have that appeal. For instance, I know full well who Michael Jordan is, but I don't watch basketball and never have and probably never will. His star power hasn't drawn me to basketball. Knowing who someone is and what they do doesn't make them a star.
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Post by sonofkwang on May 21, 2007 14:57:28 GMT -5
I'm the President of the United States and I have the CIA investigate who does and doesn't know about John Cena on a weekly basis. And weekly briefings tell me that hardly anyone knows who he is... :-) Anecdotal evidence is as anecdotal evidence does. Ok man. You hate Cena. I get it. It's cool. I don't hate John Cena. It's just that hardly anything you've said so far about why he's great actually stands up.
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Post by Spankymac is sick of the swiss on May 21, 2007 14:57:54 GMT -5
Ok I didn't want to disclose a lot of personal info about me here but I'll say this... in my line of work I talk to clients everyday...I talk to about 2k people a month about finance...and when you talk finance you really have to be cool with someone and make them comfortable... so things like football, baseball, wrestling, MMA...that comes up all the time... and I'm talking I'm rapping with people in all 50 states...people know who Cena is. When I was going to Mania there were people who didn't watch wrestling who knew about it, knew about the hair vs. hair match and knew about John Cena. I feel, imo, he is a mainstream celeb. Maybe I'm wrong. But in my experience, he is. People know who the guy is. I just don't feel like Bret Hart (who I was as big a fan of then as I am of Cena now) had that kind of power. Do I think anyone who doesn't agree with me is wrong or anyone who thinks Cena passing Hart is wrong for feeling that way... No of course not. I'm just stating my case as to why I think the guy deserves the spot and I'm happy for him. Be cool. swarm But if those people don't watch wrestling.....he doesn't really have that appeal. For instance, I know full well who Michael Jordan is, but I don't watch basketball and never have and probably never will. His star power hasn't drawn me to basketball. Knowing who someone is and what they do doesn't make them a star. And there's the rub. I know exactly who... Barry Bonds is, but that doesn't make me watch baseball. Just because people know who Cena is doesn't mean they watch him. Hell, my girlfriend knows who Cena is, and she's never watched a wrestling show in her life.
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Post by omglolwtfn00b on May 21, 2007 14:58:33 GMT -5
1. Swarm I thinking you are confusing things just a hair. Hart was around when it was wrestling. Cena is around during "Sports Entertainment" Do you genuinely believe this? Are you suggesting that Bret Hart's time in WWE was some glorious age of pro wres bereft of plodding brawlers and ridiculous WrestleCrap worthy gimmicks and storylines? Sorry, but Bret's WWE stint was just as much (if not more) Sportz Entertainment than the current stuff.
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Swarm
Don Corleone
SWARM = RATINGS
Posts: 1,347
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Post by Swarm on May 21, 2007 15:00:38 GMT -5
No, it's not. You need to go back and read the whole thread. If your logic isn't flimsy then where's your counter argument? I just think Cena has cross over appeal and his is very good for the current state of the business....his movie has something to do with it but not everything. The numbers are up and he moves the crowd. If you want to boo him fine...but when you do you are helping put money in the guy's pocket because you want to see him lose. When the day comes that all these people who boo him stop watching, stop going to the shows, then he will be a failure. Until then he has proved to be nothing short of a success story in pro wrestling. I'm not trying to change your mind.
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Cranjis McBasketball
Crow T. Robot
Knew what the hell that thing was supposed to be
Peace Love and Nothing But
Posts: 41,975
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Post by Cranjis McBasketball on May 21, 2007 15:00:50 GMT -5
1. Swarm I thinking you are confusing things just a hair. Hart was around when it was wrestling. Cena is around during "Sports Entertainment" Do you genuinely believe this? Are you suggesting that Bret Hart's time in WWE was some glorious age of pro wres bereft of plodding brawlers and ridiculous WrestleCrap worthy gimmicks and storylines? Sorry, but Bret's WWE stint was just as much (if not more) Sportz Entertainment than the current stuff. Yeah, but Bret Hart wrestled. He walked out in his leather jakcet and shades, took them off and wrestled. Armbars! and leg locks and, you know, wrestling moves. The emphasis in his matches were on wrestling.
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Chainsaw
T
A very BAD man.
It is what it is
Posts: 90,480
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Post by Chainsaw on May 21, 2007 15:01:54 GMT -5
The fact is, for a guy like me, John Cena no longer holds any interest for me, because I'm no longer 8-years old and I'm not a desperately lonely woman. Show me where this is what his fan base is made of. Sorry, I don't have the time, money, or means to take a nationwide poll of everyone who's a fan of wrestling to figure that out. John Cena, as he is right now, holds no appeal to me. I honestly don't care how much of an appeal he has across the board, I am flat out bored of the guy, I am bored of his winning all the time, I am bored of his personality, and I am bored by how he is pushed on us every show. I am never going to say he's the best wrestler in the industry jsut because he sells the most shirts. You can think in terms of how much money the guy brings in that that's the measure of success for him. Good on ya for that. I don't do that. I don't do that for films, I don't do that for books, I don't do that for anything. You can call it an elitist attitude if you like, but that's what I believe in. I think with my heart and my head, not my wallet.
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Big Daddy B
Trap-Jaw
Wrestlecrap's #1 Big Daddy V mark.
Posts: 453
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Post by Big Daddy B on May 21, 2007 15:02:43 GMT -5
This thread leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
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Swarm
Don Corleone
SWARM = RATINGS
Posts: 1,347
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Post by Swarm on May 21, 2007 15:02:53 GMT -5
Ok I didn't want to disclose a lot of personal info about me here but I'll say this... in my line of work I talk to clients everyday...I talk to about 2k people a month about finance...and when you talk finance you really have to be cool with someone and make them comfortable... so things like football, baseball, wrestling, MMA...that comes up all the time... and I'm talking I'm rapping with people in all 50 states...people know who Cena is. When I was going to Mania there were people who didn't watch wrestling who knew about it, knew about the hair vs. hair match and knew about John Cena. I feel, imo, he is a mainstream celeb. Maybe I'm wrong. But in my experience, he is. People know who the guy is. I just don't feel like Bret Hart (who I was as big a fan of then as I am of Cena now) had that kind of power. Do I think anyone who doesn't agree with me is wrong or anyone who thinks Cena passing Hart is wrong for feeling that way... No of course not. I'm just stating my case as to why I think the guy deserves the spot and I'm happy for him. Be cool. swarm But if those people don't watch wrestling.....he doesn't really have that appeal. For instance, I know full well who Michael Jordan is, but I don't watch basketball and never have and probably never will. His star power hasn't drawn me to basketball. Knowing who someone is and what they do doesn't make them a star. I agree. But you have to try. That's what business is. Maybe you didn't watch Jordan but a lot of people did and he was great for the NBA. The company I work for owns the Cleveland Cavs...drafted Lebron James...and ya know what...we do 1.2 Billion dollars a month in business in part because we are attached to that and him. It's just business. That's all it is.
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Swarm
Don Corleone
SWARM = RATINGS
Posts: 1,347
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Post by Swarm on May 21, 2007 15:05:11 GMT -5
Show me where this is what his fan base is made of. I think with my heart and my head, not my wallet. That's fine but your heart and your head don't pay the bills bro. I appreciate your stance and understand where you are coming from...I just happen to disagree. be cool.
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Post by sonofkwang on May 21, 2007 15:05:44 GMT -5
If your logic isn't flimsy then where's your counter argument? I just think Cena has cross over appeal and his is very good for the current state of the business....his movie has something to do with it but not everything. The numbers are up and he moves the crowd. If you want to boo him fine...but when you do you are helping put money in the guy's pocket because you want to see him lose. When the day comes that all these people who boo him stop watching, stop going to the shows, then he will be a failure. Until then he has proved to be nothing short of a success story in pro wrestling. I'm not trying to change your mind. First off, moving a wrestling crowd has nothing to do with cross-over appeal. Second off, we've already estabished that half of the crowds in the country actually boo the man, so he obviously doesn't work a crowd very well at all.
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King Rich
Samurai Cop
Just here for the fads.
Posts: 2,244
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Post by King Rich on May 21, 2007 15:06:49 GMT -5
*the perfect measure is number of title matches won. I've never heard anybody offer a statistic as to who has won the most WWE championship matches. But whoever he is, that man is the best of all time. I agree wholeheartedly, I have always had this opinion. I can't exactly see JR on RAW though saying "Triple H has won X amount of title matches since 1999!" Would be nice though! And in response to the recent pages, Cena is not a mainstream star. Sorry, Swarm. "It's cool"
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Post by ghettooverlord on May 21, 2007 15:07:07 GMT -5
I just played "JohnCena" on Warcraft III.
It was the first time ever he did not overcome the odds. -.-
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Swarm
Don Corleone
SWARM = RATINGS
Posts: 1,347
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Post by Swarm on May 21, 2007 15:07:31 GMT -5
Getting a reaction from a crowd is moving the crowd. That's what it means.
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Cranjis McBasketball
Crow T. Robot
Knew what the hell that thing was supposed to be
Peace Love and Nothing But
Posts: 41,975
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Post by Cranjis McBasketball on May 21, 2007 15:07:47 GMT -5
I just think Cena has cross over appeal and his is very good for the current state of the business....his movie has something to do with it but not everything. The numbers are up and he moves the crowd. If you want to boo him fine...but when you do you are helping put money in the guy's pocket because you want to see him lose. When the day comes that all these people who boo him stop watching, stop going to the shows, then he will be a failure. Until then he has proved to be nothing short of a success story in pro wrestling. I'm not trying to change your mind. First off, moving a wrestling crowd has nothing to do with cross-over appeal. Second off, we've already estabished that half of the crowds in the country actually boo the man, so he obviously doesn't work a crowd very well at all. But WWE plays it that he does, even when they're booing him, that's good, 'cos, well, they're booing.........If they sat on their hands, they'd be in awe of him or some crap. It's all in the spin. However, the spin isn't truth, which brings us back to what you said and you're correct.
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Post by sonofkwang on May 21, 2007 15:12:52 GMT -5
Getting a reaction from a crowd is moving the crowd. That's what it means. If John Cena were a heel, getting booed would be a a good crowd reaction that showed that something he was doing was right. Hell, if he was a heel and started getting cheers that would even be positive crowd reaction. But getting booed when you're the clean-cut babyface is not a sign that you are moving the crowd.
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