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Post by kingoftheindies on May 7, 2007 17:15:32 GMT -5
Here's what I think!!!!!! (very important) I think Benoit was the kind of guy that you wanted to see win the championship, but not necessarily be the champion. Huh? I just mean, the guy deserves it so much. He works so hard, for many many years, stays in great shape, really respects the business, etc etc. So you feel that dammit, this guy deserves to be WWF champion and deserves to win it at no less an event than the Granddaddy of them all Wrestlemania. But then, the morning after, you wake up and realize you have a bad champion on your hands. A deserving one, no question, a great guy and great wrestler, but a bad champion. Chris Benoit is not the level of entertainer required to be a good champion in the world of sports entertainment. So you give him a few months and take the belt off him. If I had my way, he never would have gotten the belt to begin with. I don't believe the business should reward people who "deserve" to be champion, even if they do. All you end up with then is a bunch of unsatisfying title reigns. I'd actually say you're going in the right direction, but not totally. I think Benoit should've been champ, and should be champ again. However, I think he's one o those guys you don't want to have as a long term champ because you really can't build the company around him.
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Post by popples on May 7, 2007 17:17:25 GMT -5
I thought Benoit's feud with Kane was pretty good. They built the angle that Benoit was the champion who can make anyone tap and Kane was the monster who doesn't feel pain so he wouldn't tap. Nice technical vs. Brute Strength match as well.
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Post by Stu on May 7, 2007 17:19:44 GMT -5
Here's what I think!!!!!! (very important) I think Benoit was the kind of guy that you wanted to see win the championship, but not necessarily be the champion. Huh? I just mean, the guy deserves it so much. He works so hard, for many many years, stays in great shape, really respects the business, etc etc. So you feel that dammit, this guy deserves to be WWF champion and deserves to win it at no less an event than the Granddaddy of them all Wrestlemania. But then, the morning after, you wake up and realize you have a bad champion on your hands. A deserving one, no question, a great guy and great wrestler, but a bad champion. Chris Benoit is not the level of entertainer required to be a good champion in the world of sports entertainment. So you give him a few months and take the belt off him. If I had my way, he never would have gotten the belt to begin with. I don't believe the business should reward people who "deserve" to be champion, even if they do. All you end up with then is a bunch of unsatisfying title reigns. I'd actually say you're going in the right direction, but not totally. I think Benoit should've been champ, and should be champ again. However, I think he's one o those guys you don't want to have as a long term champ because you really can't build the company around him. I would personally love Benoit to have a year-long title reign, but I understand what you guys are saying, especially from a business standpoint. Still, he'd make a good candidate for improving the company's image to the mainstream media.
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wwerules60
El Dandy
"Bring what? a vomit bag? a fig newton?"
Posts: 8,999
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Post by wwerules60 on May 7, 2007 17:24:37 GMT -5
I thought his reign was good, every match he had was about the World Title. It wasn't about some dumb storyline. The only thing I wish was that after he lost it, he should have stayed in the main event title picture.
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Post by Freakzilla on May 7, 2007 17:26:00 GMT -5
He would never be a long term champion because he has'nt the sports entertainment factor or promo skills that is required for a lengthy run on top of the WWE. I would see him more as a transitional champ like Bret Hart.
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Post by kingoftheindies on May 7, 2007 17:37:16 GMT -5
I'd actually say you're going in the right direction, but not totally. I think Benoit should've been champ, and should be champ again. However, I think he's one o those guys you don't want to have as a long term champ because you really can't build the company around him. I would personally love Benoit to have a year-long title reign, but I understand what you guys are saying, especially from a business standpoint. Still, he'd make a good candidate for improving the company's image to the mainstream media. I'd have loved to see Benoit get a lengthy reign don't get me wrong, but that does not mean he should. In ECW, or even WCW pre-Russo, he'd have been a gret world champ. Go out, kick ass, leave. His lack of promo skills definatly hurts him.
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STMP
Hank Scorpio
Wild and Only 50
Posts: 5,569
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Post by STMP on May 7, 2007 17:40:45 GMT -5
I can't even really remember a feud he had.
From what I remeber. Benoit first one the title in a triple threat match, not one on one, which didn't put all the focus on him in the first place.
After that a rematch, once again with HBK and HH and a feud between the three.
HBK and HHH continued feuding. Benoit then was thrown into a short feud with Kane (upper-midcarder), who was in a big feud with Matt Hardy (mid-carder at the time).
After that, I think the Eugene thing started and Benoit was finally having a sort of one on one feud with HHH, but with Eugene in the middle.
Just like Rey jr. he was never shown as a credible champion. Benoit never had a serious feud and he was never the main focus.
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Post by darthpipes on May 7, 2007 17:51:30 GMT -5
Wrestling-wise, Benoit had a terrific reign where he wrestled several classic matches with HHH and HBK and even made guys like Eugene look like gold in the ring. The problem was the focus was never on Benoit. He was rarely interviewed, rarely focused on, and was even curtuin-jerking a couple of Raw shows. HHH was still portrayed as his star and even HBK butted in. Benoit only beat HBK in singles competition because HHH interfered. Benoit wasn't given a chance to star as world champion. No doubt, he was poor mic skills and that really has hurt him. But he earned the right to at least try.
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Post by rrm15 on May 7, 2007 18:28:34 GMT -5
I thought he had a pretty good reign, although I agree he played second fiddle to HHH. In fact, I marked for this whole period of RAW's history.
Give him the belt again.
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Joekishi
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,490
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Post by Joekishi on May 7, 2007 18:30:02 GMT -5
the chase towards the title was great and cool, but generally a character like Benoit works better chasing the world title than holding it.
I mean he can reign as US Champ for as long as he wants, because he's the Standard bearer, and you have to beat him to prove you're the man.
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Post by Stu on May 7, 2007 18:38:06 GMT -5
At least he got his DVD.
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Post by Rorschach on May 7, 2007 18:42:55 GMT -5
I thought Benoit's feud with Kane was pretty good. They built the angle that Benoit was the champion who can make anyone tap and Kane was the monster who doesn't feel pain so he wouldn't tap. Nice technical vs. Brute Strength match as well. Agreed. I actually jumped out of my seat when Benoit reversed Kane's chokeslam attempt into the Crossface. I had high hopes for Benoit's reign, but as was already mentioned several times, HHH had other ideas.
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Post by HMARK Center on May 7, 2007 18:54:40 GMT -5
As a big time Benoit fan, his title reign was a major dissapointment to me.
I wouldn't go crazy and as that Benoit become the face of the WWE or anything, but the guy never even got a chance to become the focus of the show. He never got to speak, rarely got the chance to elevate the importance of the title, and didn't even have a major feud. Instead, he was just one of the faces that fought in 6 and 8 man tags against Evolution EVERY DAMN WEEK.
Hell, they didn't even build up to him losing the belt! Orton got the title shot, and two weeks later it's already SummerSlam!
So, like everyone' said: Raw in 2004 was the Triple H w/Evolution (and special guest appearance by Shawn Michaels) show, so Benoit never stood a chance. It's sad, really; I was hoping he could have a Bret Hart style reign, but it was not to be.
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Post by kingoftheindies on May 7, 2007 19:07:20 GMT -5
As a big time Benoit fan, his title reign was a major dissapointment to me. I wouldn't go crazy and as that Benoit become the face of the WWE or anything, but the guy never even got a chance to become the focus of the show. He never got to speak, rarely got the chance to elevate the importance of the title, and didn't even have a major feud. Instead, he was just one of the faces that fought in 6 and 8 man tags against Evolution EVERY DAMN WEEK. Hell, they didn't even build up to him losing the belt! Orton got the title shot, and two weeks later it's already SummerSlam! So, like everyone' said: Raw in 2004 was the Triple H w/Evolution (and special guest appearance by Shawn Michaels) show, so Benoit never stood a chance. It's sad, really; I was hoping he could have a Bret Hart style reign, but it was not to be. to be fair to Evolution, Randy Orton had a really nice feud with Foley back then.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2007 19:10:52 GMT -5
As a big time Benoit fan, his title reign was a major dissapointment to me. I wouldn't go crazy and as that Benoit become the face of the WWE or anything, but the guy never even got a chance to become the focus of the show. He never got to speak, rarely got the chance to elevate the importance of the title, and didn't even have a major feud. Instead, he was just one of the faces that fought in 6 and 8 man tags against Evolution EVERY DAMN WEEK. Hell, they didn't even build up to him losing the belt! Orton got the title shot, and two weeks later it's already SummerSlam! So, like everyone' said: Raw in 2004 was the Triple H w/Evolution (and special guest appearance by Shawn Michaels) show, so Benoit never stood a chance. It's sad, really; I was hoping he could have a Bret Hart style reign, but it was not to be. I'm a big fan of his as well so I agree. He might not have great mic skills, but if he never got a chance to really speak, it doesn't matter. Even though I'm liking the stuff he's doing with MVP, I really hope he can get back in the main even picture soon. I don't know how it'll happen, but I'm hoping it does.
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Post by HMARK Center on May 7, 2007 19:17:45 GMT -5
It's not only that: Benoit didn't even get a chance to really develop a character as a face champion.
As a heel, Benoit can always fall back on his default character, "quiet-but-psychotic submission genius who can break you in seconds...and will, just because he likes it". As a face, though, they just told him "go out, smile at the crowd, yadda yadda yadda."
Couldn't they at least have allowed him to have an edge to his character? Something like his heel character, but with slightly less sadism? Maybe more a submission wrestler who knows how good he is, has no problem reminding you, but still has some level of respect that allows him to be a face. Anything!
I think the last big chance to do something with Benoit was the feud he had with Edge when Edge initially turned heel at the end of 2004. They had something REALLY good going for a few weeks, could've evolved into a real blood feud, and could've taken a huge turn when they "both won the title" during that triple threat against Triple H that one Raw in December '04.
But, no, Trips had to keep his power, so instead they booked that awful Elimination Chamber match for the first New Year's Revolution, Trips won the belt again, and the Benoit/Edge feud went nowhere.
Funny: I haven't watched a full WWE show since.
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Tehboobz wants Ewa Sonnett
Don Corleone
Keeps his subtlety and knockers separated.
She's busty...she's Polish...and she will be mine!
Posts: 1,533
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Post by Tehboobz wants Ewa Sonnett on May 8, 2007 12:52:58 GMT -5
It's not only that: Benoit didn't even get a chance to really develop a character as a face champion. As a heel, Benoit can always fall back on his default character, "quiet-but-psychotic submission genius who can break you in seconds...and will, just because he likes it". As a face, though, they just told him "go out, smile at the crowd, yadda yadda yadda." Couldn't they at least have allowed him to have an edge to his character? Something like his heel character, but with slightly less sadism? Maybe more a submission wrestler who knows how good he is, has no problem reminding you, but still has some level of respect that allows him to be a face. Anything! I think the last big chance to do something with Benoit was the feud he had with Edge when Edge initially turned heel at the end of 2004. They had something REALLY good going for a few weeks, could've evolved into a real blood feud, and could've taken a huge turn when they "both won the title" during that triple threat against Triple H that one Raw in December '04. But, no, Trips had to keep his power, so instead they booked that awful Elimination Chamber match for the first New Year's Revolution, Trips won the belt again, and the Benoit/Edge feud went nowhere. Funny: I haven't watched a full WWE show since. Benoit and Jericho HAVE to go down in history as the guys with the most dissapointing reigns as World Champion EVER. And both were victims of HHH and his power play. Too bad, as both were just BURSTING with potential.
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Big Daddy B
Trap-Jaw
Wrestlecrap's #1 Big Daddy V mark.
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Post by Big Daddy B on May 8, 2007 13:23:56 GMT -5
It's not only that: Benoit didn't even get a chance to really develop a character as a face champion. As a heel, Benoit can always fall back on his default character, "quiet-but-psychotic submission genius who can break you in seconds...and will, just because he likes it". As a face, though, they just told him "go out, smile at the crowd, yadda yadda yadda." Couldn't they at least have allowed him to have an edge to his character? Something like his heel character, but with slightly less sadism? Maybe more a submission wrestler who knows how good he is, has no problem reminding you, but still has some level of respect that allows him to be a face. Anything! I agree completely. His heel run in late '00 - early '01 was brilliant, he even seemed like a credible contender to the Rock, even with other guys like Triple H, the Undertaker, or Angle going after the title. His feud with Jericho leading up to Royal Rumble '01 was amazing, he hardly said a word (excluding "Prove Me Wrong") and through his actions, showed everyone why they called him the Crippler. It wouldn't be hard for him to prove himself once again.
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Post by royboy8 on May 8, 2007 15:12:42 GMT -5
I thought his reign was good, every match he had was about the World Title. It wasn't about some dumb storyline. The only thing I wish was that after he lost it, he should have stayed in the main event title picture. He did didnt he? Wasnt he in the running for the title match at Cyber Sunday, but wasnt voted in? I also remember him getting a couple rematches vs Orton and maybe even one vs HHH on Raw. I believe he was also book in an Elimination Chamber match for the title.
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Post by perpetualn00b on May 8, 2007 15:35:18 GMT -5
It's not only that: Benoit didn't even get a chance to really develop a character as a face champion. As a heel, Benoit can always fall back on his default character, "quiet-but-psychotic submission genius who can break you in seconds...and will, just because he likes it". As a face, though, they just told him "go out, smile at the crowd, yadda yadda yadda." Couldn't they at least have allowed him to have an edge to his character? Something like his heel character, but with slightly less sadism? Maybe more a submission wrestler who knows how good he is, has no problem reminding you, but still has some level of respect that allows him to be a face. Anything! I think the last big chance to do something with Benoit was the feud he had with Edge when Edge initially turned heel at the end of 2004. They had something REALLY good going for a few weeks, could've evolved into a real blood feud, and could've taken a huge turn when they "both won the title" during that triple threat against Triple H that one Raw in December '04. But, no, Trips had to keep his power, so instead they booked that awful Elimination Chamber match for the first New Year's Revolution, Trips won the belt again, and the Benoit/Edge feud went nowhere. Funny: I haven't watched a full WWE show since. Benoit and Jericho HAVE to go down in history as the guys with the most dissapointing reigns as World Champion EVER. And both were victims of HHH and his power play. Too bad, as both were just BURSTING with potential. I'm sorry, but there's just no way either reign was as disappointing as Mysterio's.
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