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Post by 'Foretold' Joker on Aug 1, 2007 9:51:17 GMT -5
Disclaimer: I hated the Attitude Era. It ruined wrestling and is the reason why wrestling has progressively gotten worse since the 2000's began. With that said, it's pretty clear why that particular era worked. People seem to think there was a magic formula or something, but there wasn't. Monday Night Raw in 1995/1996 was mostly insignificant matches, squash matches, promos, etc, taped a week or two in advance. If you missed Raw one week, you probably didn't miss much. Then Nitro came along. Nitro was live every week, the big stars showed up every week, they gave away PPV calibre matches on free TV like it was toilet paper, and it had an "edge" about it, especially when Hogan turned and the nWo became the biggest storyline in U.S. wrestling. That's when Raw had to change its format. That's when the WWF had to listen to the audience that wanted "cool heels" like the nWo and Austin instead of clean-cut babyfaces like Bret and Michaels circa 1995-1996. That same audience wanted sexy women. That same audience wanted hardcore wrestling, which other than ECW, wasn't really prevalent in U.S. mainstream wrestling. That same audience wanted to decide who to cheer for (hence the "tweener" fascination) instead of being told who to cheer for. In other words, and I've said this a million times, the Attitude Era was a societal fad. Much like Hogan's boom period. It worked within a specific time period because it connected with society's needs at the time. To "bring back the Attitude Era", they'd have to find whatever today's generation is looking for, and exploit it. I have no clue what that is, but it's not my job to find out. Bringing back Sable and Chyna will do nothing. I'd argue that all of that has now gone. Thus the dip in popularity. Cool Heels? Nope none of those around just sneaky cowardly ones or monsters. Hardcore Wrestling? Well they had there chance to bring that back with the ECW revival, but instead they said it would make there main satrs look bad so they didn't. Fans decide who gets cheered? Well we try but they still force there one way thinking on us. The problem with our current era is that it is 'Old School 80s' Sure fresh and new wrestlers are about but a lot of stuff happening is from the old days. Such as ... ECW, The old guard jobbers (pick from Slaughter, Duggan, Kamala, Dusty rhodes or Bob Orton), DX, Ron Simmons Damm, Jerry Lawler, Re-unite the Hardys, the Rockers. or A Lack of stables, heels are either arrogant and cowardly or big hulking monsters. Whilst faces are heroic and never put a foot wrong. Then to finish it off the wrestlers invovled seem to lack motive. Let's take Randy Orton he has been made number one contender for the title, but why does he want it? Same applies to Batista, Lashley even CM Punk why do they want it? there doesn't seem to be a solid reason given by any of them. Usually the wrestler expresses some reason e.g Stone Cold (To piss off his boss), Triple H (Because he is that damm good) The Rock (For the People), Benoit (Lifetime goal), Ric Flair (The fast living) etc ... This applies from the top right to the bottom. Umaga should be having to deal with a varied selection of opponents who want his title, instead all he seems to have to do is beat up Jeff Hardy or Santino Marella. Where is the challenge for his belt from other faces or heels? Regal, Sandman, Carlito, Kennedy, Duggan & Super Crazy all should be vying for that belt. Instead they are making crude jokes about the size of Hacksaws 2x4. Plus they do stupid things like having Crimetyme on Raw against jobbers whilst the main tag teams have a match on heat?? Seriously heat this week had two solid matches that could have easily appeared on RAW. -William Regal vs. Jim Duggan -8-man tag match: Cade/Murdoch and Haas/Benjamin vs. The Highlanders and London/Kendrick: Instead we got Crimetyme in a terrible comedy segment. They want a higher rating? Then fire all the writers & producers they currently have and get some new better ones.
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Post by Doctor Tull-eus S. Venture on Aug 1, 2007 9:52:30 GMT -5
This reminds me of something. "I don't see why Rainier Wolfcastle should be the star. I think we should bring back Dirk Richter. Kids will want to see the original Radioactive Man." "I keep telling you, he's 73 years old and he's dead." "Granted, but --" Bonnie Hammer more and more seems like the stereotypical clueless TV exec. Up next, taxing Vince McMahon for wearing not wearing poofy pants.
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Post by Baixo Astral on Aug 1, 2007 10:01:12 GMT -5
Bonnie Hammer really does sound like a fool... apparently, Stephanie is openly contemptuous of her ideas. Granted, that's probably in part because she fears loss of influence, but still, despite all the hate towards her, at least she's grown up around wrestlers... like Savage Bonnie Hammer is a great name, though... she should be a feisty female detective, not a network exec.
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ACG2x
Unicron
Posts: 3,139
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Post by ACG2x on Aug 1, 2007 10:02:28 GMT -5
One big reason people tuned in on a weekly basis to the Attitude Era was the consistent title changes. Meaning, you'd have to watch Raw every week for fear of missing something major happening.
I can't even remember the last time the World Title changed hands on Raw. Even before Super-Cena it was like this. OK sure the Tag belts change hands every so often as does the IC belt but the IC title is usually in some kind of wierd situation (Marella, Santino) or a total squash (Umaga).
The whole point of a title feud is that fans believe either side can win so they either cheer the champion on to keep his belt or cheer the challenger to take it from him. Neither of these things have happened on Raw in a long time with the IC belt. Umaga vs. Val Venis for the IC belt? Wonder who's gonna win that!
Eric Bischoff said it best in the Monday Night Wars DVD when he was saying how he planned on competing with Raw - he wanted to have a live show chock-full of surprises where you had no idea what was going to happen next.
You know what's going to happen on Raw-
- Cena cuts a promo and wrestles a non-title/tag match - The Divas are put in some kind of tag/3-way/etc. match - Umaga squashes someone - Orton "destroys" a legend or brags about destroying said legend - Kennedy whines about how he's not the #1 contender - A midcard match or two
So while Raw has been entertaining lately, it certainly hasn't been original. Us diehard fans will continue to watch because we love WWE and it's superstars or just love wrestling in general. This is not a formula to attract new fans.
This is one of the reasons why I was so high on the "Vince's Death" angle because it was something totally out of the blue and made you believe that the next few Raws wouldn't follow the same format I hashed out above.
Obviously I know that Vince isn't changing the World Title on free TV when he doesn't have to because PPV buy-rates is where a wrestling company makes the bulk of it's money. But something needs to be done because while the true fans will stay watching, the casual ones, attracted by the elements of the Attitude Era, won't return.
Maybe it is time to hotshot the World Title on Raw. Even just to send the message to casual viewers that "hey, you have to watch every week or else you'll miss something big". Raw doesn't have that anymore.
I am positive I could not watch Raw for three weeks, not follow WWE at all even on the Net' then come back to watching and I'd be totally up to speed on what's going on within 10 minutes.
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Post by Baixo Astral on Aug 1, 2007 10:07:46 GMT -5
One big reason people tuned in on a weekly basis to the Attitude Era was the consistent title changes. Meaning, you'd have to watch Raw every week for fear of missing something major happening. I can't even remember the last time the World Title changed hands on Raw. Even before Super-Cena it was like this. OK sure the Tag belts change hands every so often as does the IC belt but the IC title is usually in some kind of wierd situation (Marella, Santino) or a total squash (Umaga). The whole point of a title feud is that fans believe either side can win so they either cheer the champion on to keep his belt or cheer the challenger to take it from him. Neither of these things have happened on Raw in a long time with the IC belt. Umaga vs. Val Venis for the IC belt? Wonder who's gonna win that! Eric Bischoff said it best in the Monday Night Wars DVD when he was saying how he planned on competing with Raw - he wanted to have a live show chock-full of surprises where you had no idea what was going to happen next. You know what's going to happen on Raw- - Cena cuts a promo and wrestles a non-title/tag match - The Divas are put in some kind of tag/3-way/etc. match - Umaga squashes someone - Orton "destroys" a legend or brags about destroying said legend - Kennedy whines about how he's not the #1 contender - A midcard match or two So while Raw has been entertaining lately, it certainly hasn't been original. Us diehard fans will continue to watch because we love WWE and it's superstars or just love wrestling in general. This is not a formula to attract new fans. This is one of the reasons why I was so high on the "Vince's Death" angle because it was something totally out of the blue and made you believe that the next few Raws wouldn't follow the same format I hashed out above. Obviously I know that Vince isn't changing the World Title on free TV when he doesn't have to because PPV buy-rates is where a wrestling company makes the bulk of it's money. But something needs to be done because while the true fans will stay watching, the casual ones, attracted by the elements of the Attitude Era, won't return. Maybe it is time to hotshot the World Title on Raw. Even just to send the message to casual viewers that "hey, you have to watch every week or else you'll miss something big". Raw doesn't have that anymore. I am positive I could not watch Raw for three weeks, not follow WWE at all even on the Net' then come back to watching and I'd be totally up to speed on what's going on within 10 minutes. It's true... it's always taken a shakeup to boost business, and shake people out of their lethargy. Maybe RAW should be broadcast from an oil rig, with the heels attempting to take it over and the faces defending it. There could be 'A-Team' deaths (ie injuries), and heroic speeches instead of promos. Plus, bring back those little mid-match insert promos from the 80s. I loved them. And John Morrison should be a devil worshipper, and Batista a monster from the deep under his command. And Dusty as a heel commisioner with an eyepatch. His finisher should be that he has a laser eye under the patch that he kills chumps with.
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Hiroshi Hase
Patti Mayonnaise
The Good Ol' Days
Posts: 30,755
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Post by Hiroshi Hase on Aug 1, 2007 10:10:00 GMT -5
One big reason people tuned in on a weekly basis to the Attitude Era was the consistent title changes. Meaning, you'd have to watch Raw every week for fear of missing something major happening. I can't even remember the last time the World Title changed hands on Raw. Even before Super-Cena it was like this. OK sure the Tag belts change hands every so often as does the IC belt but the IC title is usually in some kind of wierd situation (Marella, Santino) or a total squash (Umaga). The whole point of a title feud is that fans believe either side can win so they either cheer the champion on to keep his belt or cheer the challenger to take it from him. Neither of these things have happened on Raw in a long time with the IC belt. Umaga vs. Val Venis for the IC belt? Wonder who's gonna win that! Eric Bischoff said it best in the Monday Night Wars DVD when he was saying how he planned on competing with Raw - he wanted to have a live show chock-full of surprises where you had no idea what was going to happen next. You know what's going to happen on Raw- - Cena cuts a promo and wrestles a non-title/tag match - The Divas are put in some kind of tag/3-way/etc. match - Umaga squashes someone - Orton "destroys" a legend or brags about destroying said legend - Kennedy whines about how he's not the #1 contender - A midcard match or two So while Raw has been entertaining lately, it certainly hasn't been original. Us diehard fans will continue to watch because we love WWE and it's superstars or just love wrestling in general. This is not a formula to attract new fans. This is one of the reasons why I was so high on the "Vince's Death" angle because it was something totally out of the blue and made you believe that the next few Raws wouldn't follow the same format I hashed out above. Obviously I know that Vince isn't changing the World Title on free TV when he doesn't have to because PPV buy-rates is where a wrestling company makes the bulk of it's money. But something needs to be done because while the true fans will stay watching, the casual ones, attracted by the elements of the Attitude Era, won't return. Maybe it is time to hotshot the World Title on Raw. Even just to send the message to casual viewers that "hey, you have to watch every week or else you'll miss something big". Raw doesn't have that anymore. I am positive I could not watch Raw for three weeks, not follow WWE at all even on the Net' then come back to watching and I'd be totally up to speed on what's going on within 10 minutes. I feel the same also, I still watch Raw, but I could never bring myself to watch the whole 2 hours as I know how the show will go down most of the time and there's no surprises. In those days, things would happen at a breakneck pace and you didn't know what or who was coming next.
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Post by Hanz Moleman on Aug 1, 2007 10:22:09 GMT -5
2 things before i give forth my opinion
1)im apparently one of the few Kennedy fans in this forum 2)in regards to a previous post, Kennedy would be up for the heavy not IC title
I think the brands really do need to merge back together, i find myself only watching raw these days and bits and pieces of Smackdown to catch the cruiserweight matches. Id say keep ecw as is and maybe keep it like a developemental but make it the hardcore division its known for.
Stables need to make a huge return, i don't see why they ever dissapeared but it really takes away from the shows.
Merge the brands, and with this merge, maybe we do stretch Raw to 3 hours, cut Dave Batista loose, allow him to have his belt back on sunday and send him on his way, and for the love of sweet Jebus allow the cruiserweights to do what they do.
Bring back credibility to belts (which i believe Cena is doing, hes a champion and holding on to his title, i in no way support him but believe its a good thing and ready to end) have these:
WWE Title IC Tag Team Cruiserweight Hardcore
and for the love of god make ppv's once every month and a half or whatever, bring back King of the Ring, if i see another VNOC im gonna barf
all you guys are bathturds
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Post by Bob Schlapowitz on Aug 1, 2007 10:32:21 GMT -5
what's a VNOC?
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Post by Hanz Moleman on Aug 1, 2007 10:33:25 GMT -5
Vengence:Night of Champions
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Lancers
El Dandy
Oh you
Posts: 7,951
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Post by Lancers on Aug 1, 2007 11:23:48 GMT -5
Of course USA wants them to bring back the "Attitude Era". Back then, they were averaging ratings in the 6s and even 7s and now they're averaging 3.5-4.0 which is roughly half of the former viewing audience (and don't forget this was when there were TWO wrestling shows on the air at the same time). When ratings are hot, advertisers will pay anything for you to put their products' ads on the air during RAW because of the amount of people who are watching. Nowadays, the cost has gone down I'm sure.
Attitude Era meant big bucks for USA. So bring back your Chynas and your Sables. Tell Mark Henry we're turning you into a pervert who fools around with shemales. Undertaker, shave off that top part of your goatee and start crucifying people on your logo which resembles a cross. And give everyone a microphone to shoot on why everything sucks. And that's the bottom line cuz Bonnie Hammer said so.
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Legion
Fry's dog Seymour
Amy Pond's #1 fan
Hail Hydra!
Posts: 22,856
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Post by Legion on Aug 1, 2007 11:27:36 GMT -5
Bonnie Hammer for new Raw GM.
That'll put butts in seats.
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Mozenrath
FANatic
Foppery and Whim
Speedy Speed Boy
Posts: 121,121
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Post by Mozenrath on Aug 1, 2007 11:41:20 GMT -5
She is one "Why don't you have a wrestler like Pigpen from the Peanuts" away from being renamed Kurt Angle. Snitsky? The Nasty Boys?
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franchisedavis
Unicron
Called it.
Enter your message here...
Posts: 2,581
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Post by franchisedavis on Aug 1, 2007 11:58:54 GMT -5
They have changed everything. There are no surprises anymore. With WWE.com releasing what the story for Raw is before even airs it doesn't really give the surprise effect.
The last actual surprise was Mr. McMahon blowing up and that ended up leading to nothing.
It doesn't HAVE to be title changes but instead the idea that anything can happen on Monday Night Raw
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Post by Nice Guy Cody on Aug 1, 2007 12:10:12 GMT -5
They have changed everything. There are no surprises anymore. With WWE.com releasing what the story for Raw is before even airs it doesn't really give the surprise effect. The last actual surprise was Mr. McMahon blowing up and that ended up leading to nothing. It doesn't HAVE to be title changes but instead the idea that anything can happen on Monday Night Raw "Surprise" doesn't automatically = Good.
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Post by kawalimus on Aug 1, 2007 12:10:53 GMT -5
Another reason is cause there's just too much of it out there from one brand. No there are not three brands. There is one brand and that is WWE. THere are three shows though. And for whatever reason Vince wants em all be the same. But you can't do that. You gotta have some differences.
I say have em all operate under different rules like AL and NL in baseball. That adds flavor and depth to product.
Bonnie Hammer is just like Vince she thinks you increase ratings just by bringing people back who used be there when ratings were good but that is wrong. USA needs hire someone who knows what buttons to push and knows what actually does increase ratings. That's why I say fire Bonnie Hammer NOW!!! Here is what they should do. Hire RAVEN or STONE COLD STEVE AUSTIN do what Bonnie Hammer does now. Imagine if Vince had answer to Raven when he put stuff on the air. He would hate it and MOVE HIS SHOW OFF USA or change it cause Raven or SC knows what do to increase ratings.
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Post by ChitownKnight on Aug 1, 2007 12:11:07 GMT -5
They should combine all the brands, make the WWE Championship the top tier belt, the IC title second tier, and the US title third tier and have one WWE tag team championship and get rid of the CW title and make a new title for lightweights (cuz the CW titles a joke), and have the womens title.
John Cena couldnt rap on Smackdown cuz UPN censored it. Now Cenas on RAW and Raw is rated TV 14, so he could rap now. WWE might not be able to bring back the attitude era but they have guys like Cena, Kennedy, Matt Hardy, Jeff Hardy, Elijha Burke, CM Punk ect.
Yeah and there needs to be more surprises and they should air Smackdown live.
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Corporate H
Grimlock
He Buries Them Alive
Posts: 13,829
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Post by Corporate H on Aug 1, 2007 12:22:39 GMT -5
I'm getting sick of this lady. Why the hell would he want to bring back Sable or Chyna? They're both way past their prime looks-wise and as for having a prime wrestling-wise I don't think such a thing existed. WWE is building up new stars rather nicely at this point, in fact, there isn't a single person holding a title at this point who isn't a relative newcomer.
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Post by King Bastard on Aug 1, 2007 12:42:20 GMT -5
Who the hell said RAW is entertaining now? Good lord. I watched it for the first time in two months yesterday, and fell asleep on the couch. The WWE is horrible right now, and this woman, while obviously retarded, her central point is right. Bring back the excitement that the shows used to have. Because right now, it SUCKS.
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Post by Butchie on Aug 1, 2007 12:53:42 GMT -5
Who the hell said RAW is entertaining now? Good lord. I watched it for the first time in two months yesterday, and fell asleep on the couch. The WWE is horrible right now, and this woman, while obviously retarded, her central point is right. Bring back the excitement that the shows used to have. Because right now, it SUCKS. I agree. The Attitude Era had that sense of excitement and importance that is lacking today. While this lady at the USA network obviously have minimal knowlege of wrestling, she was right in telling Vince that the WWE needs to be more like the Attitude Era.
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Post by chunkylover53 on Aug 1, 2007 13:54:24 GMT -5
I think there should be a sticky thread for the Attitude Era.
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