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Post by celtics543 on Apr 30, 2016 20:01:39 GMT -5
I think it starts with Vince, then the faces of each era.
Vince Sammartino Hogan Bret HBK Austin Rock Cena Undertaker Savage
Savage and Taker get on as my wildcard picks. Taker for his incredible longevity and I took Savage over Andre and Flair because he feels like more of a WWE guy than the other two. Andre was huge in the 80's but he was really only healthy until Mania 3 and Flair is mostly a WCW guy.
Doing the same for NWA/WCW I'd go
Turner Flair Rhodes Sting Steamboat Terry Funk Race Brisco Dory Funk Roddy Piper
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Post by celtics543 on Apr 29, 2016 5:55:44 GMT -5
Jokes being reported as truth is my favorite thing about wrestling news. Triple H chased MVP around with a Screwdriver because Chyna's pool boys were too asian to clean her Hunter ass pool. So Christian let her borrow his Malaysian slaves to clean the pool? That's pretty cool of him.
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Post by celtics543 on Apr 28, 2016 19:15:55 GMT -5
ASSUME THE CONTROLS RIC FLA-AIR....TAKE THE PLANE INTO A NOSE DIVE RIC FLA-AIR
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Post by celtics543 on Apr 27, 2016 8:19:46 GMT -5
I think the real issue isn't what they should look like to keep US entertained but what they need to do to draw in the public. Back in the day they had great wresters on the undercard, whether it was Guerrero, Jericho, Malenko, Benoit, or whoever they would put on stellar matches. The main event has usually been guys who were over the top characters though. The general public wants characters they can get lost in and have larger than life personalities. It's the reason Holly Holm isn't Rhonda Rousey or Vladimir Klitschko isn't Muhammad Ali. They don't have huge personalities that captivate an audience, they don't appeal to the general public.
Wrestling needs to have guys that appeal to the public at large. Daniel Bryan was on his way there but I'd argue that most of his appeal was in the story, and that his wrestling ability was a secondary attribute. He could have been just as good of a technical wrestler but without the charisma he wouldn't have gone anywhere. Some people love to watch technical wrestling and don't care about the story, many people on this site often complain or compliment the workrate of a wrestler, but the general audience just want to be entertained, they don't really care if the guy is great in the ring or merely passable. Hulk Hogan and Steve Austin didn't wrestle five star classics but they were still the biggest stars of all time. Zayn vs Nakamura didn't even headline the nXt show they were on despite being a technically great match. With a great story could those two headline a Wrestlemania, probably but everything is derived from the story being told.
I guess my point is that the people on this site are in the wrestling bubble already, we watch all the time, we like to watch guys who entertain us in the ring, but as Enzo has proven over the last few weeks the general audience would prefer a guy who entertains on the mic. Rock was never a great worker but his mic skills and the fact that he oozes charisma carries him. Tim Tebow have been the worst technical qb in the history of the NFL but he was a huge star because of his charisma. Teddy Bridgewater is twice the pro that Tebow was and you never hear anything about him because he's not a great interview and doesn't have that natural charisma.
The wrestling business needs all types of guys to appeal to as many audiences as possible but history has shown that when wrestling is at it's hottest, the mid card is loaded with guys who can work a great match and the main event is loaded with charismatic showman. Whether it was WCW when they had Guerrero, Benoit, Malenko, Mystery, Saturn, Raven etc. in the mid card and Hogan, Nash, Goldberg, Sting etc. in the main event or WWF in the 80's with Savage, Steamboat, Hart, Perfect, etc. in the mid card and Hogan, Warrior, Piper, Andre in the main event. Charisma is what draws, and technical wrestling entertains people once they've bought the show.
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Post by celtics543 on Apr 26, 2016 16:18:29 GMT -5
One of the biggest problems right now is that they don't kayfabe ON the show. I don't care what they do in their free time, do whatever you want but on the show it needs to be presented as real and they can't go out of character.
When they "break the 4th wall" it completely takes most people out of the performance. They can't have great heels anymore because they never play up those guys as truly evil people on the show. It's not like you're watching the Walking Dead and The Governor and Rick embrace after a particularly good scene and take a bow before moving on to the next week. Commentary on Lost didn't put the Smoke Monster over as a great person and how it should be respected and loved.
Honestly watching a show and seeing highlights of a heel doing a make a wish or hanging out with the troops kind of takes me out of it. I love that those guys do those things but just don't show highlights of it, keep that to just the faces being presented as good guys/girls.
Now when the show is over I don't expect them to live the gimmick or anything. When the red light goes off they can be themselves again but for that couple of hours a few times a week they HAVE to be that character without pulling back the curtain. Otherwise we're watching a tv show that keeps reminding us it's a tv show all the time...that's dumb.
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Post by celtics543 on Apr 26, 2016 13:33:27 GMT -5
It could also be the access we get now with everything being on social media. In the old days you didn't see Savage other than when he was on the show, now we see Cena and everyone else on twitter/facebook/instagram doing regular people things and it sort of takes you out of it. I'm not sure. I think that Randy Savage would've still been a larger than life figure no matter what. Savage: "Mean Gene if you want a brush of greatness follow me on Instragram yeah. There you'll see greatness. I've got a hundred fifty thousand photos of the Macho Man holding the Intercontitnental Heavyweight Championship with two hundred fifty thousand being uploaded tomorrow!!!" Gene: "Will the lovely Elizabeth ever get Instagram?" Savage: "......the only Instagram for Elizabeth are the eyes of the Macho Man!! And they're worth more than zillions and zillions of followers all around the world. OOOOH YEAH!" Gene: "There's the reigning Intercontitnental Champion..." Savage: *from way off screen* "FOLLOW ME ON TWITTER YEAH!!" Gene: "...and keep up with him @machomansavage on Twitter" On the show I think he could definitely incorporate it and make it still seem awesome. But when you go to the twitter page is there going to be pictures of him around the house doing menial stuff or what he ate for dinner? What would he tweet? I just think it takes away from the character unless they tweet in kayfabe and if you tweet in kayfabe you look like an idiot.
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Post by celtics543 on Apr 26, 2016 5:58:17 GMT -5
If anything wrestling could probably benefit from a lot more normal-looking schlubs. It's the sort of thing that'd be easy to sell geeks on and has tons of background mythology to fall back on and attract that sort of obsessive crowd with, and to merchandise the hell out of, and really these days being a geek is more popular than being a jock. Completely disagree with this. Are we really going to say that Zayn, AJ, Rollins etc are nerds and not jocks? Those guys are highly athletic and are clearly jocks. For some reason the word nerd keeps getting thrown out here and I know what everyone means as far as the wrestlers being fans of comic books and video games and maybe not looking or sounding like the mega stars of years past but open your eyes, these guys are clearly jocks. The New Day are all incredible athletes, Balor, Joe, Ryder, Owens, all of those guys are great athletes, not 120lb comic book sore nerds. The body types may have changed but it's the access to their lives that is making the biggest difference. If you only saw what is presented on tv every Monday and Thursday, as well as ppv's, you would have no idea about most of the guys interests outside the ring. Maybe you'd have some idea with New Day but if all you saw of most guys was what they did in the ring and on the mic you wouldn't know about their "nerdy" interests. This is where social media has changed things immensely. Part of looking like a larger than life star is only being public when you want to be seen, on the show or as part of a big event somewhere. Now we can see John Cena or Randy Orton or whoever tweet at all hours of the day about mundane stuff and it takes away the larger than life aura. I understand that they use it to try to bring in new fans and get over but it takes away the larger than life element.
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Post by celtics543 on Apr 25, 2016 17:28:23 GMT -5
I'd like to first point out that Macho Man wasn't that tall. He was like 5'10" thought admittedly he was huge. It's not the size though so much as just so many guys today lack charisma.
The charisma issue is the biggest problem today. No one is allowed to really be themselves, everyone is following a script, and that isn't getting anyone over. If guys were allowed to be themselves and be charismatic they would be just as big of stars as they were before. A guy like Daniel Bryan got over and could bring people into the building with his charisma but it's much rarer today than it used to be. One of the major things is that guys aren't paid based on live attendance anymore. Really guaranteed contracts have hurt the entire business because now guys get paid regardless of how many people they draw. Back in the Savage days they had to be able to talk people into the building, so those guys got good at that while todays guys have never really had that pressure.
Pretty much overall I don't think size matters as much as charisma and today's guys either don't have the same charisma or aren't allowed to use it for any number of reasons. It's true though, guys today don't look or feel larger than life and that's hurting wrestling. I don't think it's size though, because Austin wasn't huge and he's probably the most popular star of all time. It could also be the access we get now with everything being on social media. In the old days you didn't see Savage other than when he was on the show, now we see Cena and everyone else on twitter/facebook/instagram doing regular people things and it sort of takes you out of it.
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Post by celtics543 on Apr 25, 2016 17:15:26 GMT -5
I thought this was where they were going with Eugene, he was going to be autistic and just overly knowledgeable about wrestling history and rules.
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Post by celtics543 on Apr 25, 2016 9:33:36 GMT -5
An HLA invasion is more likely than a TNA invasion as this point.
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Post by celtics543 on Apr 24, 2016 12:48:22 GMT -5
Well let's use Mark Henry as the example. He needed approximately 15 years before he went from huge waste of time and money to one of the best parts of the show. So I think I am willing to give 15 years.
You could also look at it from Kane's perspective. He went through roughly 5 gimmicks before hitting it big with Kane, so I guess it's either 15 years or 5 gimmicks, whichever one comes first.
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Post by celtics543 on Apr 19, 2016 19:58:13 GMT -5
It would be like Wrestlemania 4. A huge tournament of champions for the vacant world title. Final match takes place in a lumberjack match with the 32 other tournament participants on the outside.
In my mind it ends up being Hogan vs Austin in the finals.
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Post by celtics543 on Apr 19, 2016 17:05:41 GMT -5
It could be ok but he'd have to be protected a little bit and he'd have to really have a great character. It's tough to bring in a guy who's 5:9" 170lbs and present him as the ultimate badass around guys who are 6'5" 250lbs.
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Post by celtics543 on Apr 18, 2016 18:26:36 GMT -5
Sid breaks his leg. I'm not squeamish but that's basically the only non-storyline thing in WWE history that makes me cringe. Ironically not WWE history, although now that they own WCW history I guess it could be considered that. Although I agree with the premise, Sid's leg break was the grossest thing I've ever seen.
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Post by celtics543 on Apr 18, 2016 16:53:00 GMT -5
This also shows the biggest problem with WWE right now. Nine years have passed since this day and this still looks and feels exactly like it does today. 1991 - 2000 doesn't feel like it's even in the same universe in terms of product. 2000-2009 doesn't feel like the same universe. 2007-2016 may as well be the same thing. With more tv time than ever and a huge need to change more often because of it, the WWE has gone in the opposite direction.
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Post by celtics543 on Apr 13, 2016 5:38:34 GMT -5
They weren't happy about the League kicking out Barrett. He was their favorite LoN member. Bray still has loyalty to Barrett from their Nexus days. Honestly, if the payoff to this was a Wyatt Family and Nexus hybrid I think I'd be ok with that. "We are one, we are one, we will follow the buzzards"
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Post by celtics543 on Apr 8, 2016 5:45:47 GMT -5
It was a pretty awesome dive. I thought Mania was supposed to be about moments like that? Hogan slamming Andre, Savage lifting Elizabeth onto his shoulder, Austin passing out in the Sharpshooter, the Streak being broken, those are the kind of moments WrestleMania is all about. There was emotion behind them, they weren't just a stunt. How I miss the days when things were based on story telling and Wrestlemania presented a logical end to those stories therein having huge moments. But why tell a thoughtful story through several months of storyline when you can just have guys jump off high things... It's the main problem with the WWE right now, there are no stories, they just throw huge spots into matches at random so they can get chants from the audience, then everyone forgets about the spot 10 minutes later.
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Post by celtics543 on Apr 8, 2016 5:38:15 GMT -5
I think simply moving Mauro and heel King to Raw and going with a two man booth replacing Cole, Byron, and JBL would be a huge step in the right direction. King hasn't been good for a long time but he's gotten WAY better on Smackdown and I would imagine it's because he gets to play off Mauro and he gets to be a heel again.
I'm not sure why they went to the 3 man booth when the most successful times in company history have always featured two man booths but 3 is just too much.
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Post by celtics543 on Apr 7, 2016 7:36:53 GMT -5
The only way this would work is if it ended up being like the nWo or what the WCW invasion should have been. They could get months of storyline out of teasing whether the shield guys were going to join or not, being nXt alums themselves.
That could actually be the payoff is a team led by Reigns/Amrbose/Rollins/Joe/Balor or whatever against a team of non-nXt WWE guys Cena/Orton/Kane/Jericho/Styles or whatever. Styles is an interesting one though because he came in during the nXt era but could play up the whole idea that it's a minor league and he was too good to be in the minor leagues.
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Post by celtics543 on Apr 7, 2016 5:49:05 GMT -5
I don't know if R-Truth is really a stereotype as Killings has a rap background and was already a rapper before becoming a wrestler. Then why do they make him ridiculously stupid? Like so stupid he brings a ladder into the Royal Rumble only to get eliminated a minute after? They're making him into a damn comedy act. Is that really any different than Santino though? I don't think it's because Truth is black, I think it's just because they needed a comedy act and he's someone that Vince and co. trust to be able to pull it off.
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