nisidhe
Hank Scorpio
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Post by nisidhe on Jun 10, 2021 17:05:36 GMT -5
I think the closest he came to organically turning heel in recent vintage was in the runup to Wrestlemania 34 (I think) when he was trying to "find a path to Wrestlemania" and managed to pin Finn Balor. Even the kids were hatin' him that night. Had he just gone all out heel then, we'd might have seen Cena vs. the Demon at Wrestlemania that year.
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nisidhe
Hank Scorpio
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Post by nisidhe on Jun 10, 2021 16:27:49 GMT -5
I hope he holds out for more money than they saved releasing him. Really, though, WWE seems hellbent on screwing with people in relationships
Perhaps a few beancounters at HQ might want to avoid answering their phones for the next few days.
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nisidhe
Hank Scorpio
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Post by nisidhe on Jun 10, 2021 7:44:27 GMT -5
As far as WWE not getting people who are 'larger than life' and all that, Jon Moxley has way more superstar aura to him than Dean Ambrose ever did. And he was a main eventer in WWE. I can't think of any clearer case example than that. Mox even mentioned this, and Jericho backed him up, that if Vince finds out you have comedic timing in his mind you can make comedy work, and a lot of what Vince finds funny is sophomoric humor (to be nice). Hell just to contrast that Mox said how cool Dusty thought he was and wanted him to be a James Dean type character. But once you become a face champ Vince also tends to change what got you over. Diesel went from a cool badass to a month later wearing a Chistmas Hat singing Christmas Carols at Titan Tower. John Cena went from having more of an edge as a rapper to being a discount Rock with his promos. Hell even Sheamus when he turned face back in the day went from a rugged badass to trying to crack jokes like Cena. He's probably looking for a jacked-up George Carlin, then. Waitaminit...I've got it! An actual stand-up comedian gimmick - guy with a notebook and golf pencil always in hand cutting promos based on the contents of the notebook. Yes....
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nisidhe
Hank Scorpio
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Post by nisidhe on Jun 10, 2021 7:10:50 GMT -5
Bret was absolutely the best North American pro wrestler in wrestling history - bar none.
He learned the way that any of the "indie darlings" now hope to learn their craft - by getting solid with the basics, then working all around the world and working in those styles. His father taught him to book and stretched him out in the Dungeon, but it was two Japanese friends of Stu's who taught Bret how to work pro wrestling. From there, between his work in Stampede (against opponents from all over), then his work overseas (he worked Europe, Japan, Mexico, Puerto Rico), he learned everything. He was a consummate scholar of the craft and he wasn't afraid to try some new stuff out. All of that made him capable of carrying a broom to a MOTY candidate. He fooled Vince into pushing Tom Magee by carrying his ass throughout that match.
Throughout most of the 1990s, Bret's was the first name most wrestling fans mentioned as the best in the craft.
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nisidhe
Hank Scorpio
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Post by nisidhe on Jun 8, 2021 6:33:29 GMT -5
Her push/depush over the next few years may be a good indication of how things are going behind the scenes as HHH clearly worships the ground she walks on but shes 35 and Dunn/Vince are said to be ageist against women wrestlers. She might think herself well out of it. I suspect that someone like Trips or even Nick Khan have sat at least one of those men down and told them what's what, at least in telling them what's "best for business." Women's wrestling has come a long way from Moolah's clawed grasp and is only getting better and better. I don't think Charlotte is a WWE lifer, if only because her name and her sense of legacy will demand that she leave. Any history she has of being problematic primarily stems from the kid gloves treatment she's gotten so far from WWE, but deep down she knows she may never truly be able to match her father's legacy just sticking around the same place that "made her." Ric Flair was touched, since the plane crash that nearly killed him in 1976, with the sense that he had to be memorable in everything he did. Charlotte bears a little of that burden now, and can't be seen as another second-gen wrestler who couldn't step from their parent's shadow. Papa Flair's title reigns didn't all come from NWA or WCW; it doesn't make sense that, whatever Charlotte's legacy is, it would come from a lifetime with one promotion. That said, I don't see WWE letting her go without a massive fight, even if it seems outlandishly generous. If there's anyone who could seriously bolster AEW's profile and particularly its women's division without the headaches, it'd be Natalya, whose pedigree is arguably better and who's been at the business rather longer without any signs of slowing down.
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nisidhe
Hank Scorpio
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Post by nisidhe on Jun 7, 2021 14:39:07 GMT -5
Was giant Gonzalez always the plan to be his opponent? If I remember correctly didn’t his feud with nailz begin around December until nailz went crazy and would sid have been an option had he stayed he was managed by Harvey whippelman Giant Gonzalez was a pickup from WCW, where he wrestled babyface as El Gigante. If memory serves, Nailz was long gone by the time the Undertaker had his program with Gonzalez.
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nisidhe
Hank Scorpio
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Post by nisidhe on Jun 6, 2021 20:33:14 GMT -5
The indie era was not only not a failure on paper, it was actually a Hail Mary pass that was essential to WWE's long-term survival and continued dominance.
It was either that, or WWE would have been roster-starved by 2015, I think. Once the shop talk throughout the IWC spread in earnest about how many wrestlers could make a decent living from the work without having to jump through WWE's hoops, somebody higher up clearly got the memo. Colt Cabana and Zack Ryder proved that one could have more control over one's revenue streams and marketability than WWE would allow (and that has borne out to the nth degree), and that an ambition promotion able to get the shells together to book someone like that was going to fill seats and their cash box faster _and_ build up business on the promise of getting them regularly. Get enough of those folks signed to your wrestling shows regularly, you're a promoter making money and growing into something WWE hates - a competitor.
So, they had a dilemma on their hands - sign these vanilla midgets and spot monkeys and luchadors and weird anime goofs and figure out later what to do with them, or keep watching until they're showing up on TV every week for another promotion who's also getting decent work out of WWE's castoffs and who's just signed a deal to go weekly on basic cable.
They really didn't have much of a choice.
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nisidhe
Hank Scorpio
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Post by nisidhe on Jun 5, 2021 14:26:13 GMT -5
I mean a lot of wrestling fans have no clue who Grizzly Smith is. You can make a compelling story out of someone who is a nobody. Its a really tragic story of wrestling ignoring a crime. I agree though in this case its Jake the Snakes Dad. Did Jakes sister not try and go to work in Japan as Womens wrestling was still going there ? Rockin' Robin beat Sherri Martel for the WWF Women's title back in 1988. Cute as a bug's ear and worked as well in-ring as any man. She'd been trained outside Moolah's "system", by Nelson Royal who trained her as he did the guys, and the difference showed in her work. YouTube has a few videos of her in the ring.
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nisidhe
Hank Scorpio
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Post by nisidhe on Jun 5, 2021 6:07:57 GMT -5
Caught this on the Seeb's website this morning: www.cbc.ca/radio/docproject/becoming-a-pro-wrestler-helped-this-b-c-woman-embrace-her-carrier-first-nations-culture-1.6039638There's a video of her in action against "Wonder Woman", for All-Star Wrestling on BCTV back in the 1980s. Amid all the sad news that's come out lately about Canadian residential schools for indigenous children, this profile's a small little flicker of positivity on the power that sports in general, including pro wrestling, to bolster new and positive perceptions of those we would have called "minorities" back then. The promotion, Universal Wrestling Alliance, was also responsible for bringing a young announcer/manager named Mauro Ranallo to the fore.
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nisidhe
Hank Scorpio
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Post by nisidhe on Jun 4, 2021 19:14:47 GMT -5
It sounds as though he might have long-haul COVID, or the long-haul effects from it. Many of the symptoms of long-haul COVID would render him unfit to perform, with no defined timeline for total recovery. www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/long-term-effects.htmlIf they're being quiet about it, it's because WWE does _not_ want anyone putting two and two together that Keith's health issues _might_ be connected to the company's ass-dragging on the PC culture surrounding COVID or the overall lackadaisical attitude among the talent towards preventive measures. They cannot legally release him as a result of the infection (or its long-term aftereffects) if it's been established that he contracted it throught the PC or while performing. However, it is possible that they're trying to reach some sort of resolution that will a) get him off the roster and thus off the books and b) ensure that he's financially well looked after in a way that won't bring public exposure for the company - if they have not already done so.
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nisidhe
Hank Scorpio
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Post by nisidhe on Jun 4, 2021 11:34:20 GMT -5
Here's some of the stuff Black talked about on Twitch earlier that I mentioned. See, none of that ties up with these reports that Vince just didnt get the character or type of person he was. Vince seems to be pretty sold on some of the ideas. I wonder if someone else didnt raise about the potential complaints that sort of character could generate. Christian groups and the like seeing it as devil worship. Nick Khan seems to want to make WWE feel more real and present things more like 'real sports,' I dont think it's a coincidence that since he came on board, we're seeing more and more of the really out there gimmicks disappearing. Even's Alexa's 'magic' has been toned down to just a crazy doll gimmick. This sounds great, but I can also see how, to someone who doesnt actually know or care about pro wrestling, it would sound kooky, weird and too outlandish or controversial to be worth it... If Nick Khan is pushing for a more "sports" feel to WWE in general, this does not bode well for the Fiend storyline at all, or for Bray's future in general given the suddenness of the cuts we saw on Wednesday. Alexa, at this point, can take up the thread and carry it on her own, essentially cutting Bray entirely from it. The week's not yet over - the company can provide another announcement dump by the end of the day.
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nisidhe
Hank Scorpio
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Post by nisidhe on Jun 4, 2021 6:50:24 GMT -5
There is another posssible reason for all this. Somebody with the clout and the money to rattle their sabre over the lack of transparency on the Saudi deal could be pressuring the company simply to draw a line under it and get that obligation out from under the rug. As we've seen in the news, #46 isn't settling for MBS's BS and will be talking to the king himself on anything that involves US interests in SA. Vince and Nick Khan may be seeking to cancel the deal with SA and are willing to come up with the money to cover any penalties for the cancelation without leaning over a barrel for shareholders. _If_ there is a sale in the works to anyone major, that's one obligation the buyer will not be willing to fulfill - to the point at which they will either lowball the purchase price or, more likely, not purchase it at all.
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nisidhe
Hank Scorpio
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Post by nisidhe on Jun 3, 2021 16:03:56 GMT -5
Can't shake the feeling that Braun Strowman will be back on board in a few months - like whatever Nick Khan has done has come to pass and suddenly there's a new contract You may be right; however, I doubt Strowman will come back for any less than what he was being paid before. If anything, after all this discourse has gone down over WWE's motives, I'd say prices have risen.
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nisidhe
Hank Scorpio
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Post by nisidhe on Jun 3, 2021 13:28:51 GMT -5
Ooh. That actually gives me an idea - what if this is a way for Vince and family to get rid of their obligations to a publicly-traded company, then restart as a private company without obligations to shareholders outside the family? I think he'd be on the end of several very serious lawsuits and possibly jail time if he tried that. True. Vince is a carny, but I don't think he'd be that ballsy to try anything given the companies he's hobnobing with now. But it all seems to be moving very, very fast.
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nisidhe
Hank Scorpio
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Post by nisidhe on Jun 3, 2021 11:00:04 GMT -5
Maybe to Steph and Hunter, or even Shane and some investors. Vince didnt inherit the business, he bought it, and had to run debt and the rest to do so. It strikes me he'd expect his own kids to do the same if they want it bad enough. A difference was that Vince & Linda had incorporated Titan Sports two years prior to them by buying the assists & debts of the Capitol Wrestling Corporation. A second difference was that CWC was not a publicly traded company. Ooh. That actually gives me an idea - what if this is a way for Vince and family to get rid of their obligations to a publicly-traded company, then restart as a private company without obligations to shareholders outside the family?
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nisidhe
Hank Scorpio
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Post by nisidhe on Jun 3, 2021 7:39:24 GMT -5
I think it's only Fandango (as Chett Chetterton and Mr McElroy, the Banker) from both seasons. There aren't any others left from Season One, I don't think. From Season Two, we still have Voo and Doo, AJ Styles as Malibu Al, The Miz as Adam Dung, Renee as Susan, Natalya as Debbie Desperado (that small, misshapen man of which they only signed one), Seth as one of the Butchers, and Daniel Bryan as Danny Bandana/Rene Beret, and Ziggler as the Sammy Hagar knockoff. I guess it's just continuing the emotional beatings until morale improves.
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nisidhe
Hank Scorpio
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Post by nisidhe on Jun 3, 2021 6:09:50 GMT -5
Yeah, sadly I think it will work on too many people... I do think a decent number might just decide that it's not worth the hassle though. A lot of people will probably leave. For a company leaning up, cheaping out, and finding people to burn through, that's probably playing to their benefit. Everyone is interchangeable and nobody cares. Nick Khan is coming here from mainstream show business, but he's found himself in an environment with no unions and no protections. Isolating wrestlers, picking them off, and maing things shittier for them is drastically easier than it could have ever been. Every vile trick in the book can be rolled out, because wrestlers operate on a massive scale for a group with zero protections or even the protections of employment. This is the chance for him to do a lot of damage and to just not care about the consequences because there just straight-up aren't any now. There _are_ consequences, however, especially these past two years or so. There are dozens, if not hundreds of wrestlers currently active who have never seen and will _not_ see the inside of a WWE locker room, who look at what's going on and decide that the WWF they watched as kids is long dead. There are wrestlers on the WWE roster right now who see this happening and will decide not to re-sign with WWE - and that may well include Bryan Danielson, among numerous others whose careers are not yet on a clear downswing. Many of the prospects reading this news last night and today, receiving offer letters to report to the Performance Center, might well be making other plans to move forward and are drafting "Thanks, but no thanks" letters in reply. News like this involving independent contractors can hit a company _very_ hard - harder that it anticipated, and certainly harder than might be possible to walk back from.
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nisidhe
Hank Scorpio
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Post by nisidhe on Jun 2, 2021 16:18:05 GMT -5
It's occurred to me that there might be a reason why they called the PC during NXT broadcasts the "Capital Wrestling Center."
What if, and this is only a thought, WWE was sold to another company _but_ the WWE titles and their histories remained with, say, NXT as part of that company's title lineage?
The Universal title is relatively recent, but the WWE title dates back in an unbroken line to 1963 and, if one follows the lineage back through the NWA territories (where the World heavyweight title was a commonality among the territories), that lineage goes back to 1948 and that even before.
Before WWE, Inc. was TitanSports, it was known as the Capitol Wrestling Corporation, Ltd. What are the odds that the McMahons' plan involves selling WWE, but possibly without certain assets that they can then use to rebuild as CWC?
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nisidhe
Hank Scorpio
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Post by nisidhe on Jun 2, 2021 14:43:48 GMT -5
That makes the narrative so much less dirty/scummy/interesting thooooooooo WWE killed the UK Scene and now is gonna close down NXT UK basically robbing then of good paying jobs? sounds pretty scummy to me NXT Main will likely snap up the bigger names - if they want them - before shuttering the UK office. However, unless we have more clarity about the future of NXT Main, I suspect that those currently on that roster will be the last from across the pond for some time, unless they can clone the likes of Regal, Barrett, WALTER or Devitt.
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nisidhe
Hank Scorpio
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Post by nisidhe on Jun 2, 2021 11:46:25 GMT -5
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