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Post by mauled on Jun 9, 2021 12:59:44 GMT -5
OK so Bret in his A and E Documentary said he took pride in being the best Technical Wrestler of the time.
So I thought let's measure up. How good was he ?
Let's ignore modern wrestlers like Kenny Omega and Okada who are arguably greater than Bret but let's stick wrestlers during Brets period like Benoit/Guerrero/Jericho to use 3 examples etc
Was he the best technical wrestler ?
Its kind of strange him saying this but then saying Dynamite Kid was the best ?
What about Tiger Mask, isn't he better than Bret
Does Brets boast add up ?
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john84
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Post by john84 on Jun 9, 2021 13:02:28 GMT -5
He was certainly up there imo. Whether he was the best technical wrestler at the time...Well, I'm not sure I'd go that far.
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Chiral
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Post by Chiral on Jun 9, 2021 13:08:26 GMT -5
"In my opinion, Bret Hart is the greatest technical wrestler to have ever lived. A 10/10 in ring, and he made lots of people cry tears of joy with his moral code and great matches." —Bret Hart |
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Post by mauled on Jun 9, 2021 13:12:13 GMT -5
"In my opinion, Bret Hart is the greatest technical wrestler to have ever lived. A 10/10 in ring, and he made lots of people cry tears of joy with his moral code and great matches." —Bret Hart Better than Kenny Omega ? |
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Post by mauled on Jun 9, 2021 13:13:10 GMT -5
He was certainly up there imo. Whether he was the best technical wrestler at the time...Well, I'm not sure I'd go that far. Who do you think was the best ? |
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Post by polarbearpete on Jun 9, 2021 13:18:31 GMT -5
"In my opinion, Bret Hart is the greatest technical wrestler to have ever lived. A 10/10 in ring, and he made lots of people cry tears of joy with his moral code and great matches." —Bret Hart Better than Kenny Omega ? Certainly. Bret may very well be the GOAT as it relates to technical wrestling. Daniel Bryan is up there in the conversation as well. |
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Dr. Bolty, Disaster Enby
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Post by Dr. Bolty, Disaster Enby on Jun 9, 2021 13:23:29 GMT -5
Bret wrestled at the same time as the Four Pillars of Heaven, meaning that his biggest competition comes from Mitsuharu Misawa, Kenta Kobashi, and Toshiaki Kawada. Oh, and this was the absolute prime of Jushin Thunder Liger, as well. That is a hell of a hard decision for the best technical wrestler.
If I define technical wrestling in terms of execution...I might give it to Mitsuharu Misawa, but he had plain more flashy and impressive spots than Bret had, which makes the comparison feel off. Toshiaki Kawada might be the best full package of storyteller and athleticism next to Bret; Kawada certainly had more opportunities to really go all out with that, which gives him a leg up when comparing bodies of work.
If Bret Hart were regularly wrestling 40-minute matches against opponents of his caliber, with the intent of making money on VHS tapes that lived or died on the match quality? Bret's body of work would look very different, and he would hold the hell up to the wrestlers who did that.
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Post by mauled on Jun 9, 2021 13:25:50 GMT -5
Bret wrestled at the same time as the Four Pillars of Heaven, meaning that his biggest competition comes from Mitsuharu Misawa, Kenta Kobashi, and Toshiaki Kawada. Oh, and this was the absolute prime of Jushin Thunder Liger, as well. That is a hell of a hard decision for the best technical wrestler. If I define technical wrestling in terms of execution...I might give it to Mitsuharu Misawa, but he had plain more flashy and impressive spots than Bret had, which makes the comparison feel off. Toshiaki Kawada might be the best full package of storyteller and athleticism next to Bret; Kawada certainly had more opportunities to really go all out with that, which gives him a leg up when comparing bodies of work. If Bret Hart were regularly wrestling 40-minute matches against opponents of his caliber, with the intent of making money on VHS tapes that lived or died on the match quality? Bret's body of work would look very different, and he would hold the hell up to the wrestlers who did that. Great response 👍 |
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Post by mauled on Jun 9, 2021 13:26:46 GMT -5
Better than Kenny Omega ? Certainly. Bret may very well be the GOAT as it relates to technical wrestling. Daniel Bryan is up there in the conversation as well. The GOAT is Jericho imo Let's not forget AJ Styles either |
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lucas_lee
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Post by lucas_lee on Jun 9, 2021 13:27:39 GMT -5
In America Bret is the GOAT. No doubt about it. Bret made every one of his matches feel like fights and he made people in the lower card look like a million bucks even if they're green
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Post by mauled on Jun 9, 2021 13:34:32 GMT -5
In America Bret is the GOAT. No doubt about it. Bret made every one of his matches feel like fights and he made people in the lower card look like a million bucks even if they're green For America only then would you say better than AJ or Benoit would you say ? |
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pinja
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Post by pinja on Jun 9, 2021 13:39:51 GMT -5
The problem with Bret's wrestling isn't a problem at all. He had his philosophy about what's considered great wrestling and a great wrestler and he fit that mold to perfection. Going by that philosophy I bet the Four Pillars of Heaven wouldn't be favored. Many people, wrestlers and fans alike, share Bret's philosophy. It's seen in most conversations about WALTER, who I consider to be the best right now. Some put his wrestling ability in general in question, because he works stiffer than what Bret might consider to be safe. Really, Bret might be the only guy who fit his own often publicized ideal so good that it's considered to be an identifiable ideal for many.
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lucas_lee
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Post by lucas_lee on Jun 9, 2021 13:56:57 GMT -5
In America Bret is the GOAT. No doubt about it. Bret made every one of his matches feel like fights and he made people in the lower card look like a million bucks even if they're green For America only then would you say better than AJ or Benoit would you say ? Definitely! Bret elevated the talent he was in the ring for the most part. Bret had a decent match with Kwang, out of his prime Skinner, green as hell Rocky Mavia. Even when he was slowing down in WCW he still found ways to elevate talent. Do I think he's the greatest of all time? No, but he has every right to be in the arguement |
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thehottag
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Post by thehottag on Jun 9, 2021 14:07:00 GMT -5
He was outstanding. He made his matches feel like fights. When people think about technical wrestling they often think about it being 'crisp' & clinical. But often in Bret Hart matches there would a point where an opponent would do a move & Bret would battle out of it, & I couldn't tell if it was a great attempt to cover a botch or if it was done purposefully to make it look more legit.
If you want an example of why Bret is the man, go watch King of the Ring '93. He has three different matches with three different types of opponent, & looks good in all of them. The Mr Perfect match in the semi-finals is an absolute cracker, only enhanced by having a newly-hired Jim Ross on commentary.
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Post by The Thread Barbi on Jun 9, 2021 14:28:42 GMT -5
"Best known" beats "Best".
I have no idea about the Four Pillars. Whereas Bret was smashing it out park every single week in front of a worldwide Television audience
He got a near 5 star match out of Diesel!
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Post by "Evil Brood" Jackson Vanik on Jun 9, 2021 14:47:19 GMT -5
The idea of what separates technical wrestling from the art of working has always been murky to me. I will just say Bret was one of the best workers of all time. Certainly in that conversation. Few did the little things as well as he did. The way he sold, took bumps, his facial expressions, his strikes, all top notch.
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Dr. Bolty, Disaster Enby
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Post by Dr. Bolty, Disaster Enby on Jun 9, 2021 14:59:22 GMT -5
The idea of what separates technical wrestling from the art of working has always been murky to me. I will just say Bret was one of the best workers of all time. Certainly in that conversation. Few did the little things as well as he did. The way he sold, took bumps, his facial expressions, his strikes, all top notch. This is really the kicker. How much do we weigh various aspects of storytelling? Certainly somebody who hits every move right but can't string a narrative together is only going to have a good match with some heavy duty carrying, but there's also something to be said for considering who is the best at that kind of execution vs. who is best at the overall package in the category "technical wrestling." How much does realism factor in? Pacing? Are certain styles held in higher regard? Do we factor in how over the wrestler was, or how much money they made overall, or do we only look at technique? The choice of criteria is as subjective as the answer. |
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Post by The Ichi on Jun 9, 2021 15:03:08 GMT -5
He combined technical wrestling with great ring psychology. Some wrestlers are great technicians but their psychology leaves much to be desired. Some could tell a story but were the wrestling equivalent of watching paint dry. Bret excelled at both.
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Post by sportatorium on Jun 9, 2021 15:03:23 GMT -5
Technically, there are few US based wrestlers on his level. His beginning in the WWF was in a heel tag team & he was usually the one carrying the load slowing down the match, working holds, feeding & cutting off comebacks for the faces. Anvil was tagging in & hitting power moves etc. Transitioning to a main event singles wrestler isn’t done as seamlessly as Bret made it look. The Bulldog Wembley match he was pretty much wrestling by himself, I mentioned the Backlund title match where he made that crossface look absolutely brutal all while building himself as the relentless babyface. I think it speaks volumes that Roddy Piper took a Mania pin from Bret & shows the respect he had in him.
His work with Michaels, Austin, Owen is obviously great and well documented, but he had to work a bunch of guys who aren’t exactly ring generals and he could get competent matches out of them on a consistent basis.
Lawler certainly wasn’t at his top level in their feud and Bret’s generosity with him was great to watch.
Outside of his ring work, double turns are rare because they are nearly impossible to get the crowd to go along with. The one with Austin was a slow burn and executed perfectly by Bret showing tiny heelish tendencies as the turn built up. His pro-Canada tweener run after was entirely convincing and yes, technical.
Bret became a bitter man, and understandably so. He’s the most glaring example of wrestling not loving someone back. His struggles are well documented and don’t need revisiting. If I got to start a wrestling company regardless of time and place, he would likely be one of my first two or three choices to start with.
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Post by carp (SPC, Itoh Respect Army) on Jun 9, 2021 15:05:36 GMT -5
His matches were coherent in a manner I sure haven't seen much. He communicated, "I'm trying to win this match, and here's the ways I'm trying to get that accomplished," and it felt like there were lots of nuances in that. I see that a lot with people who plan out their matches beforehand, but I don't think Bret did that.
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