Enough about the crowd already!

[The OP]

I keep seeing comments about the crowd, and how the crowd popped for a segment or how the crowd was dead. People will even try to use this to support their opinions, which is ridiculous. Why?

Because crowds are weird. Sometimes they'll cheer one person, and then halfway through start to cheer the other person instead. Also, I've seen people posting things about how the crowd popped like crazy when I didn't notice a big reaction, and other times when people said the crowd was dead and I thought I heard a big pop. It doesn't matter which of us is correct, only that we disagree. The point being, the crowd is hard to read, especially if you're not there and you're watching on TV.

Besides, basing so much off crowd reaction is suggestive of a livestock mentality where we feel like we shouldn't approve of a match or a segment unless the majority of the crowd agrees.

So what I'm suggesting is, ignore the crowd. Listen to yourself. "The crowd" is an abstract concept, you are a person. Your opinion is more valuable than "the crowd's". F*** the crowd.

[Just "Dan" is Fine, Thank You]

The board doesn't really care much for discussions based on personal taste, because everyone thinks there some kind of insider. So the discussions become all about overness, and ratings, and what have you. It's really unfortunate but true.

[Hiroshi Hase]

That's true, but at times it's pretty easy to see if the crowd is jumping up and down and making noise or dead quiet and still like during the Jericho/JBL promo last night.

[Hiroshi Hase]

taxcollector said:

Well, maybe they wanted to hear what the guys were saying instead of yelling like morons while other people are talking. Who knows why the crowd does what it does? More importantly, why should we care?

I don't care all that much, but if it's something I noticed, then I'll mention it.

Perhaps it was that, but usually fans start booing or at least making some effort to rally on the face in these types of promos. Surprisingly no "What?" chants either (not saying that's a bad thing).

And it's clear that the crowd reactions do matter, as Matt Hardy mentioned in an interview when he got rehired in 2005, especially at MSG where they chanted "You Screwed Matt" to Lita and it started a ripple effect around the country at the arenas to where I suppose WWE felt they couldn't ignore it any longer and brought him back.

Also, I like seeing crowds make noise, as it makes the situation seem more important as opposed to just sitting on their hands.

[Citizen Snips]

I think the obsession with the crowd on here is due to the fact that Vince, Stephanie and company DO listen to how the crowd is reacting to something. If the live crowd is silent for someone/thing a poster likes, they worry that Vince will push that aside. If the crowd reacts to something they dislike, "OH NOEZ" that's gonna get a push.

I do agree that it's ridiculous when people try to claim the crowd isn't reacting the way they are. A lot of crowds cheer for Hornswoggle. Deal with it.

[Hiroshi Hase]

taxcollector said:

JBL got plenty of boos in that segment when I watched it, but that's beside the point.

It would be more interesting to me to hear your opinion on a match or a segment than your opinion of how much the crowd liked it. That's really the main point I'm trying to make.

He did get a few, but towards the end the crowd seemed still and didn't make any noise.

I don't mind giving my opinions on segments and matches, but I also like to comment on how the crowd took it in as well. Whether they cheered, booed or remained indifferent throughout.

[Kenny Brockelstein]

The crowds are quieter at the moment, which is surely symptematic of the majority of fans being less in to the product and very little being over with the crowd- which has to be a bad thing for wrestling in general, even if it doesn't cloud own personal enjoyment.

Watch the World Class DVD and see how the crowds reacted then, or just how intense a Raw Is War atmosphere could be back in the Attitude era, or a WCW crowd pop whenever Goldberg came out in 1998. A hot crowd can add so much to a show.

[The OP]

Something must be wrong with my computer. My posts now exist only in your quotes. Maybe I clicked on something wrong?

Anyway, yeah I can understand that to a point. I'm not talking about you or anyone else in particular either, I just have lately seen what I believe to be a general over-emphasis on discussing the crowd's reaction on the forum.

[Kash Flagg]

I wonder if the crowds ever go "man the wrestlecrap boards sure are sitting on their hands tonight".

[willywonka666]

I do not think the crowd should cheer or pretend to care about something that's not interesting to them. If they do cheer for something that they think sucks, then we'll get more of the same. f*** that.

[Grotto]

I agree that crowd reaction live is much different than crowd reaction on TV.

Have you watched anything from TNA? That crowd noise has to be piped in. There is no way the crowd could be THAT loud for THAT long. And I know that SD and other WWE shows have been covered with crowd noise in the past.

I think the only good way to judge what a crowd is doing is being there live. And even then...it does not really prove whether something is working or not, in most cases.

[biafra]

The thing about the JBL/Jericho thing was..if they were quiet it was probably because they were actually listening to what was being said.

One of the few times outside a comedy skit in recent memory where a back and forth feud building promo grabbed my attention.

If the corwd were anything like me they wanted to be able to hear what was aid because they got into it.

[Hiroshi Hase]

biafracorleone said:

The thing about the JBL/Jericho thing was..if they were quiet it was probably because they were actually listening to what was being said.

One of the few times outside a comedy skit in recent memory where a back and forth feud building promo grabbed my attention.

If the corwd were anything like me they wanted to be able to hear what was aid because they got into it.

Maybe that's what it was, I just figured they were restless, but it's possible.

[Bo Rida]

You need a crowd in wrestling or it just doesn't work, try watching any match without the sound on and it's just not the same.

It's like the boiler room brawl or empty areana matches, they may be techically sound but without the crowd something just seems off.
Sometimes the crowd even make the match, Rock vs Hogan being the most obvouis example.

So personally I find a hot crowd enhances the product and a dead crowd seroiusly detracts from it.

[acressl]

It's tough to tell sometimes if the in-ring whatnot is falling on deaf ears of if the crowd is just paying close attention. The reactions do seem off sometimes but no two crowds are alike I suppose. Perhaps they can just go the daytime talk show route and just tell the crowd how to react to each segment.

[Desi]

sidesalad said:

So personally I find a hot crowd enhances the product and a dead crowd seriously detracts from it.

This.

And about the JBL/Jericho segment, I found that people were trying to listen and not being dead because they did respond when it was appropriate (i.e.: Jericho/JBL insulting each other's worth.)

[Loki]

"Reading the crowd" has a double meaning I think.

The first and more obvious is to determine how a segment is being received by the crowd.

While I agree silence during promos isn't necessarily a bad sign, that's not been the rule for a long time... Some boos and cheers during pauses are a given (not to mention the godawful WHAT?). So a promo with no crowd reaction isn't really working. Wrestling isn't theater anyway

The second is our take on the crowd reaction: ie. some sort of selective perception of the cheers/boos.

Anyway, we care so much about the reactions because WWE do care as well. And rightfully so...

Listening to a crowd during a live event is the best (and only?) way to understand what's working and what isn't working.

Buyrates, tickets, merchandise help too, but if the crowd sit on their hands during a promo or they flock to the bathrooms/snack stands during a match, it's an eloquent sign of lack of interest.

While it's often said that the noise of a live crowd can't be adequately reproduced on TV, it's hard to deny the responses to a lot of segments have been a bit lukewarm lately.

We can't say "smurf the crowd", because the crowd dictates the trends. We may disagree and hate on the trends all we want, but unless we can't get 3-4000 friends to boo with us at a taping, it's "their way or the highway"

[Feargus McReddit]

The thing with me is, the crowd reaction can effect a match or a show in a big way.

Take the 15th Anniversary Show. The crowd just weren't into it for most of the night which sort of ruined the show in a few ways. I think most of us here enjoyed it, but the crowd didn't seem like they were.

And also, the Kennedy/Jannetty match was the very definition of a match that's difficult to get into because of the crowd.

Not saying we can do anything about it because we can't, but sometimes crowds can affect whether a show can be fully enjoyed or not.

[The OP]

There are definitely some good counter-points to my original thread being made here. Nevertheless, it still seems to me that it would add to a lot of people's personal enjoyment if they didn't pay as much attention to things like the crowd.

For instance, ejm is saying that the crowd took away from his enjoyment of the 15th anniversary show. I'm not knockin' you ejm, but personally, I had a lot of fun watching the show and honestly didn't even really notice the crowd. Which experience sounds more rewarding?

[Feargus McReddit]

taxcollector said:

There are definitely some good counter-points to my original thread being made here. Nevertheless, it still seems to me that it would add to a lot of people's personal enjoyment if they didn't pay as much attention to things like the crowd.

For instance, ejm is saying that the crowd took away from his enjoyment of the 15th anniversary show. I'm not knockin' you ejm, but personally, I had a lot of fun watching the show and honestly didn't even really notice the crowd. Which experience sounds more rewarding?

It wasn't a huge factor because I still really enjoyed the show, but it would have been nice if the crowd was reacting too.

Matches can rise from 'good' to really really memorable from the crowd reaction. How would have Rock/Hogan at Wrestlemania 18 been like if they just sat on their hands and didn't react? It wouldn't have been as well remembered because the crowd wouldn't have been as into it as they were. Because of that, things might have been very different storyline wise because that's how the WWE would have taken it.

For me, it's deflating if the crowd don't react to something. Like I'm enjoying it, but it might not happen again because the crowd didn't like it. And the crowd are probably the most important thing, if not the second most important thing for the WWE. Let's take the Kane/Phone storyline from last year. I really liked that because it was done so well (minus the 'hearing into Kane's thoughts part), but because the crowd didn't react to it, it stopped on the next Raw and was never heard from again.

Along with that, it's fair enough if you have 100 odd people doing nothing at TNA, because usually there will still be people cheering and doing whatever.. Having 20,000 people not react to something is like there is noone there at all.