The Rise and Fall of WCW?

[franchisedavis]

Has there been any talk at all about doing a DVD on the Rise and Fall of WCW? They have all the footage and I am sure they have wrestlers that can talk about the hot points of WCW and the terrible mess it became at the end of the promotion.


Why it worked, why it failed, etc.


Would you guys buy it? Any chance this will happen?

[Mr Captain Falcon]

I bought ECW and it damn near brought me to tears, but that was a warm, fuzzy promotion. WCW was a place where everybody hated to be.

I'd buy it!

[Kenny Brockelstein]

Don't think there are any plans, but I would totally buy it and it has the potential to be the best WWE DVD release of them all. They'd need to get guys like Hogan to defend themselves though to make it really special. Hell, I'd buy a Rise + Fall Of Thunder DVD.

In general, they could do far more with their WCW tape library. They're missing a goldmine here- a lot of the old WCW videos go for a whole lot of CHEDDA on EBay, and as much as the name has been ruined, WCW still has a massive fanbase. Hell, just release Best of Nitro or Best of Saturday Night DVDs and they'll go down like a nun's knickers with wrestling fans.

*EDIT* I work in documentary film making and, if WWE were short of staff, I'd be prepared to make it for free.

[Diddly]

If done RIGHT, I would definately buy it. There would have to be NO bias whatsoever and the documentary would need to be at least 3 hours. Briefly discuss the history of the NWA, talk about Turner buying it in 88 and then go from there. Even pony up and pay some of WCW's recognizable names (Hogan, Bischoff, Goldberg, DDP, etc.) to participate in the interview.

Sadly we will never get anything like that, and the Monday Night War DVD is probably the closest we'll get. If WWE decides to do a WCW documentary it will be 90 minutes long, discuss how WCW NEVER did anything harmful to the WWF, how Vince was always on top of the wrestling world, and how nobody EVER watched WCW in the mid-late 90's. Also featuring exclusive commentary from WCW experts Jerry Lawler, Gerald Brisco, and the Brooklyn Brawler!

[General Zod]

I think they already made that DVD. It was called the Monday Night Wars. And as you would expect, it had a strong slant to it. That's not to say I didn't enjoy the disc to a degree. But still...

[Godhand]

It would be nice, but I dont think it will happen. WCW does not have the hardcore fanbase ecw did.

[kwydjebo]

diddly said:

If done RIGHT, I would definately buy it. There would have to be NO bias whatsoever and the documentary would need to be at least 3 hours. Briefly discuss the history of the NWA, talk about Turner buying it in 88 and then go from there. Even pony up and pay some of WCW's recognizable names (Hogan, Bischoff, Goldberg, DDP, etc.) to participate in the interview.

Sadly we will never get anything like that, and the Monday Night War DVD is probably the closest we'll get. If WWE decides to do a WCW documentary it will be 90 minutes long, discuss how WCW NEVER did anything harmful to the WWF, how Vince was always on top of the wrestling world, and how nobody EVER watched WCW in the mid-late 90's. Also featuring exclusive commentary from WCW experts Jerry Lawler, Gerald Brisco, and the Brooklyn Brawler!

Actually I must disagree about one thing here. VInce LOVES that WCW was hot and almost put him out of business, because its a major ego stroke for him to be able to say "Look, we weree at death's door, and I turned it around. I saved the WWF, and put WCW into the ground."

I'd think the documentary would look more like....
(Broken into parts)
1) A brief history of the NWA, mention of some of its big taletns and interview segments with guys liek the Horsemen etc.
2) Turner buys WCW in 88 and play up how it was a bunch of Yokels who were tripping over themselves. End this part with Vince saying "The long and the short of it was, there was no way we considered them a threat"
3) Rise of WCW. Show the defection of the huge star Hulk Hogan (And if Hulk is on good terms with Vince when this is made, you can bet they'll really play this up), and some other stars would leas to the NWO. Have segments with Bischoff looking like an ass and talking about how he was so sure they'd bury the WWF.
4) WWF On its knees. Show how bad things got, how stars were being bought up, have Vince tell about how worried he was. The Montreal screwjob, HBK going off due to injury, etc. etc. etc. Not since the Government came after him in 92 (When he beat them back) had he been so worried. Have Easy E talk about how he planning the WWF's eulogy, after he had already planted ECW (why let facts get in the way of a good story).
5) WWF Big Comeback. Vince makes stars out of AUstin, Rock, DX, Foley and most importantly himself. Vince helms the WWF ship into profit and suceess, stunning the WCW which was seeing the WWF rise like a phoenix, and in response tried to emulate the WWF (Going so far as to hire away writers Vince Russo and Ed Ferrera), but just couldn't copy that Vince McMahon style. Have comments from Austin and Foley type guys, who can speak to how different it was workig in WCW to the amazing organization and flow of WWF.
6) The end is nigh! Show how revenues and buyrates dwindled in the face of WWF superiority. Show how in the end, Time Warner decided they couldn't compete with the WWF, Titan Sprots and the almighty Vincent Kennedy McMahon. Have Bischoff talk about how Managemnt at Time Warner, and idiots like Vince Russo bungled things so badly that he had no chance against an efficient and super hot entertainment juggernaut like the WWF. Have guys like Jericho, Rey Mysterio and others who worked at WCW during the Monday night wars talk about how demoralized they were to have a the clearly superior WWF product coming out against them every week, and how some of the guys in positions of power just didn't recognize how significant it was. Lawler, and JR can speak to how they'd view the WCW product and couldn't believe how bush league it suddenly seemed in comparison to thier own fine product. Mention the exodus of stars who so wanted out of WCW....Jericho, SHow, Eddie, Beniot (They'd HAVE to mention how they gave the guy their world title and he still couldn't find the door fast enough). Have Sandman and other ECW types that tred out in WCW talk about how they had no clue what to do.

So there it is...that's how I think they'd do it. The WWE would tweak history to make it seem like it was them (Under the genius of Vince) that created this pressure and expectation that WCW just couldn't stand up to. Maybe talk of politicing by people like Jarret, Hall and Nash (You think if Hogan is on decent terms with WWE when they make this they'll bury his orange ass as well?) and others, along with too much pressure on rookie hopefuls like Goldberg, or a management that just didn't give a damn contributed to what was inevitable.
I highly doubt the WWE would want to portray the WCW, the company that almost broke them, like a bumbling bunch of self centered morons that ran their company into the ground because the powers that be didn't recognize what was happening and were too stupid to realize the obvious. Remember in wrestling, the better your opponent looks, the better you look for beating him....and Vince ALWAYS wants to look good. I think VInce, those in WCW who are currently on WWE contract...or good terms (Bischoff, Hogan, Flair etc.)will bury those who are not (Hall and Nash, Jarrett, Russo)
I'd expect to see something along the lines of "The total destruction of the Ultimate Warrior"

But I do agree, an unbiased complete telling of the WCW could be pretty interesting.

[Brain Of F'n J]

darthfaker said:

I think they already made that DVD. It was called the Monday Night Wars.

We have a winner.

Jed Shaffer
~I'm waiting for the Rise & Fall Of MLW.

[franchisedavis]

I liked the Monday Night Wars but there was so much history missing. And they kinda just summarized the end of it instead of really goind in depth about how stupid matches. Talent that was just too green and so on.

I really like these documentary wrestling dvds, it really gives alot of insight into the business

[Doctor Tull-eus S. Venture]

kwydjebo said:

diddly said:

If done RIGHT, I would definately buy it. There would have to be NO bias whatsoever and the documentary would need to be at least 3 hours. Briefly discuss the history of the NWA, talk about Turner buying it in 88 and then go from there. Even pony up and pay some of WCW's recognizable names (Hogan, Bischoff, Goldberg, DDP, etc.) to participate in the interview.

Sadly we will never get anything like that, and the Monday Night War DVD is probably the closest we'll get. If WWE decides to do a WCW documentary it will be 90 minutes long, discuss how WCW NEVER did anything harmful to the WWF, how Vince was always on top of the wrestling world, and how nobody EVER watched WCW in the mid-late 90's. Also featuring exclusive commentary from WCW experts Jerry Lawler, Gerald Brisco, and the Brooklyn Brawler!

Actually I must disagree about one thing here. VInce LOVES that WCW was hot and almost put him out of business, because its a major ego stroke for him to be able to say "Look, we weree at death's door, and I turned it around. I saved the WWF, and put WCW into the ground."

I'd think the documentary would look more like....
(Broken into parts)
1) A brief history of the NWA, mention of some of its big taletns and interview segments with guys liek the Horsemen etc.
2) Turner buys WCW in 88 and play up how it was a bunch of Yokels who were tripping over themselves. End this part with Vince saying "The long and the short of it was, there was no way we considered them a threat"
3) Rise of WCW. Show the defection of the huge star Hulk Hogan (And if Hulk is on good terms with Vince when this is made, you can bet they'll really play this up), and some other stars would leas to the NWO. Have segments with Bischoff looking like an ass and talking about how he was so sure they'd bury the WWF.
4) WWF On its knees. Show how bad things got, how stars were being bought up, have Vince tell about how worried he was. The Montreal screwjob, HBK going off due to injury, etc. etc. etc. Not since the Government came after him in 92 (When he beat them back) had he been so worried. Have Easy E talk about how he planning the WWF's eulogy, after he had already planted ECW (why let facts get in the way of a good story).
5) WWF Big Comeback. Vince makes stars out of AUstin, Rock, DX, Foley and most importantly himself. Vince helms the WWF ship into profit and suceess, stunning the WCW which was seeing the WWF rise like a phoenix, and in response tried to emulate the WWF (Going so far as to hire away writers Vince Russo and Ed Ferrera), but just couldn't copy that Vince McMahon style. Have comments from Austin and Foley type guys, who can speak to how different it was workig in WCW to the amazing organization and flow of WWF.
6) The end is nigh! Show how revenues and buyrates dwindled in the face of WWF superiority. Show how in the end, Time Warner decided they couldn't compete with the WWF, Titan Sprots and the almighty Vincent Kennedy McMahon. Have Bischoff talk about how Managemnt at Time Warner, and idiots like Vince Russo bungled things so badly that he had no chance against an efficient and super hot entertainment juggernaut like the WWF. Have guys like Jericho, Rey Mysterio and others who worked at WCW during the Monday night wars talk about how demoralized they were to have a the clearly superior WWF product coming out against them every week, and how some of the guys in positions of power just didn't recognize how significant it was. Lawler, and JR can speak to how they'd view the WCW product and couldn't believe how bush league it suddenly seemed in comparison to thier own fine product. Mention the exodus of stars who so wanted out of WCW....Jericho, SHow, Eddie, Beniot (They'd HAVE to mention how they gave the guy their world title and he still couldn't find the door fast enough). Have Sandman and other ECW types that tred out in WCW talk about how they had no clue what to do.

So there it is...that's how I think they'd do it. The WWE would tweak history to make it seem like it was them (Under the genius of Vince) that created this pressure and expectation that WCW just couldn't stand up to. Maybe talk of politicing by people like Jarret, Hall and Nash (You think if Hogan is on decent terms with WWE when they make this they'll bury his orange ass as well?) and others, along with too much pressure on rookie hopefuls like Goldberg, or a management that just didn't give a damn contributed to what was inevitable.
I highly doubt the WWE would want to portray the WCW, the company that almost broke them, like a bumbling bunch of self centered morons that ran their company into the ground because the powers that be didn't recognize what was happening and were too stupid to realize the obvious. Remember in wrestling, the better your opponent looks, the better you look for beating him....and Vince ALWAYS wants to look good. I think VInce, those in WCW who are currently on WWE contract...or good terms (Bischoff, Hogan, Flair etc.)will bury those who are not (Hall and Nash, Jarrett, Russo)
I'd expect to see something along the lines of "The total destruction of the Ultimate Warrior"

But I do agree, an unbiased complete telling of the WCW could be pretty interesting.

Great sounding layout.

Unfortunately, Vince would be chomping at the bit to pump it full of pro-WWE bias.

[default]

I'd buy it, so long as it ended with Ted Turner on a horse in his ranch in Montana saying "I regret nothing" and then riding off.

[Hulk With A Mustache]

Why would I want a DVD full of WWE bias when I already have the McMahon DVD? Besides, WWE pretty much made the Rise and Fall of WCW DVD; it's called the Monday Night Wars.

Though, I would like to see them release a Best of WCW series, like Best of Nitro, WCW Saturday Night, Spring Stampede, Bash At The Beach, StarrCade, etc.

[Joekishi]

mrkennedy said:

I bought ECW and it damn near brought me to tears, but that was a warm, fuzzy promotion. WCW was a place where everybody hated to be.

I'd buy it!

They hated it once Russo took over and "da poltics"

I'd love to see one

they'll probably use interviews from 2003 that were unused from Monday Night wars/confidential.

I'd also like to see DDP, Sting, and Goldberg commentate.

[kwydjebo]

hulk6785 said:

Why would I want a DVD full of WWE bias when I already have the McMahon DVD? Besides, WWE pretty much made the Rise and Fall of WCW DVD; it's called the Monday Night Wars.

Though, I would like to see them release a Best of WCW series, like Best of Nitro, WCW Saturday Night, Spring Stampede, Bash At The Beach, StarrCade, etc.

The Potential for releases is limit less......how about

- "The Cruiserweights". Show some of the matches that the first hour of nitro was built around. The Feuds, the belt, the big moments.
- "The best of Monday night Jericho" As entertaining as he may be, his best work was in WCW (Where nobody gave a crap what he did). The Feud with Greenberg....getting lost on the way to the ring, his collecting trophies. Add some additional commentary with the like of Jericho, Malenko, Chavo, Rey....
- "WCW....woulda shoulda coulda" A tape dedicated to WCW wrestlers who had moderate success while there (SHowing their highlights) but then went on to bigger and better things after leaving. Stone Cold, Triple H, Foley. (I'm sure there are others)
- "Whatever happened to...." Chronicle some of the WCWs forgotten/unresolved sotryline and include interviews with those involved in an attempt to see where they woulda gone.. WHo drove the white Hummer
- "THe rise and fall of the NWO" Chronicle one of wrestlings hottest angles, from magnificent begining to dismal end.

Just some quick thoughts

[Joekishi]

godhand said:

It would be nice, but I dont think it will happen. WCW does not have the hardcore fanbase ecw did.

Are you kidding me? WCW had a bigger fanbase and a more ingrained fanbase than ECW could EVER hope for. WCW was what a lot of people grew up watching, me included.

WCW was far more important, better, and just all around more iconic than ECW.

I'm sorry it's true.

[krazysane]

Just release box sets of wcw ppvs. I will buy that.

[kwydjebo]

basicboogeynomix said:

godhand said:

It would be nice, but I dont think it will happen. WCW does not have the hardcore fanbase ecw did.

Are you kidding me? WCW had a bigger fanbase and a more ingrained fanbase than ECW could EVER hope for. WCW was what a lot of people grew up watching, me included.

WCW was far more important, better, and just all around more iconic than ECW.

I'm sorry it's true.

Not to doubt your commitment at all Joekishi, but as I recall (From what I heard, living no where near ECW country), the ECW had a small but...dare I say...Rabid...fanbase that could be extremely obsessive. Of course I guess it helped that ECW was in fact a territory and never really a major national company (From what I understand it never really caught on out west).
I'm sure old WCW has a larger fanbase than the ECW faithful ever did....but were they as nuts for the product?
I don't know I'm just asking. Besides would Old school WCW fans buy a WWE produced Retrospective of the WCW...knowing that the the E would probably spin things enough to make WCW look weaker than WWF.

However, since you were a major WCW fan Joe, may I ask you (And I ask not to mock or embarrass you, but out of sincere interest) what was the thinking, as a fan, when the Monday night wars started to turn, and the dumb decisions began occuring with more frequency? Personally I was never a big WCW fan (partly due to the fact that WCW TV was limited where I live in Canada), but I'd catch bits and pieces of it here and there, and at some point it became pretty obvious (To me) that this was a company in serious trouble. Was there a breaking point for you (like say when Vince Russo was hired) when you questioned what happened to the company that you had followed since childhood, that seemed intent on its own destruction? Or were you hopeful that (Much as many of us WWE fans are now) things would turn around, and you focus on the few bright moments offered.

I'm just curious since its been talked to death about WHY WCW failed, but I'm curious how the fanbase felt while things were crumbling around them (Of course the smart fans knew that Turner was always there to bail WCW out...). Or were a lot of you just figuring it was a lull and things would amp up again soon?

[humorousled]

As a fan of WCW (which I prefered in a huge way to the WWE), I can give my two cents on your questions.

The first time that I really saw that there were any serious problems with WCW was the Fingerpoke of Doom. I didn't really see the issues that were bothering the company before that and that incident made me so angry that I can't ever forgive Nash for it and I was enraged at the company for a long time after it.

Bringing in Russo made me fear the worst quickly and I was right because Russo hated the WCW fans who were there and wanted us to go away so that he could attract the WWE Attitude fans to the company. He assumed that those fans (who were partially made up of fans who saw wrestling as a fad) would get the ratings up and he wanted the fans who were loyal to WCW to either become like the Attitude fans or go away completely. It felt like that to me with the garbage that Russo pulled (fake voices for luchadores, burying Flair and Piper, shoving young guys down our throats, etc.) he was trying to get us to not care anymore. He didn't understand that the WCW fanbase was very different in terms of what were interested in compared to the WWE Attitude era fans wanted. Those fan bases were not compatable at all.
I still held out hope but really began to lose that hope after Bischoff left for good in 2000 and Russo was chosen to run things instead of him. The people above them thought that getting rid of Hogan and focusing on guys like Jarrett (who I like but never thought as a top guy) and Nash was a good idea. Russo, when he was an on-camera character also never put anyone over. I mean, he held on while Flair had him in the Figure 4 for 5 minutes, he won the title from Booker T, and he never got it from Goldberg when fans were so desperate to see that happen. Russo thought that he was the star like Vince McMahon thinks that he is now. Russo had all of McMahon's bad traits and none of his good ones.
I never thought that the company would go out of business though and I was stunned to learn that Bischoff wasn't able to buy the company and the shows were being canceled permantly.
That being said, I would love to see a DVD with the real story about the success and fall of WCW, but, that won't happen since the McMahons have to always make things about them and how great they are.

[General Zod]

Absolutely true.

[Hiroshi Hase]

Even in the final days, I was loyal to WCW.

I guess the Monday Night Wars DVD would suffice as far as a documentary, but I wish they had other people's thoughts who were actually in WCW at the time and not WWE asskissers like Brisco.