bigHEADinc
El Dandy
Wanted Conway Twitty as a special title.
lest we forget...
Posts: 7,711
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Post by bigHEADinc on Oct 30, 2007 16:38:24 GMT -5
ROH does have bigger men on the roster (Claudio and Morishima are both quite big), but they won't ever hire a "hoss" since a "hoss" is by definition untalented in the ring. Now, if there was a big guy who wasn't asking WWE prices and was good in the ring, I see no reason why they wouldn't hire one...other than the fact that, you know, ROH is trying to be different from the WWE. I'm going to disagree with you there about everyone doing the same thing, but maybe that's just me. My definition of hoss is a little different, but when I'm talking big men, I'm talking about guys like the Big Show, Kane, etc. where the spectacle is half the fun. Add that a lot of the bigger guys in ROH don't work a bigger style (Excluding Morishima, Stevens, and Strong). It was an overreaction to say EVERYBODY does the same thing, because there are obviously stand-outs (Danielson, Aries, etc.) but the lower-to-midcard guys share so many moves it's ridiculous. A lot of it boils down to the beginning match moves which, from what it seemed like at the last show, consists soley of knife-edged chops, stiff kicks, and enziguris. Also, at the same show, two matches were ended by a nice looking brainbuster, but it wasn't any different from each other. I look for separation between these wrestlers. I was raised on the WWF, where everybody was somebody different from one another. While their in-ring product might not have been good, everybody had a character, a gimmick that they utilized. Outside of a few, so many in ROH tend to blend in with each other. |
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Mozenrath
FANatic
Foppery and Whim
Speedy Speed Boy
Posts: 122,182
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Post by Mozenrath on Oct 30, 2007 16:45:34 GMT -5
I think they need color commentary. Both guys doing play by play is a bit worthless.
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Square
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Official Ambassador
Grand Poobah of Scavenger Hunts 2011
Square-Because he looks good at all the right angles.
Posts: 18,702
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Post by Square on Oct 30, 2007 16:49:27 GMT -5
Few recommendations: - An honest to goodness hoss! I know people bitch and complain about the WWE hiring nothing but hosses, then ROH is the polar opposite. When guys like Roderick Strong and Erick Stevens are considered the "monsters" of ROH then something's wrong. There are many talented big men, but none seem to get any sort of play in ROH. ROH does have bigger men on the roster (Claudio and Morishima are both quite big), but they won't ever hire a "hoss" since a "hoss" is by definition untalented in the ring. Now, if there was a big guy who wasn't asking WWE prices and was good in the ring, I see no reason why they wouldn't hire one...other than the fact that, you know, ROH is trying to be different from the WWE. I'm going to disagree with you there about everyone doing the same thing, but maybe that's just me. If Jimmy Jacobs is in the first match and uses a brainbuster to which his opponant kicks out easily it devalues that move when El Generico is doing it in the main event as the finish |
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Post by Arthur Digby Stamp on Oct 30, 2007 16:56:35 GMT -5
ROH does have bigger men on the roster (Claudio and Morishima are both quite big), but they won't ever hire a "hoss" since a "hoss" is by definition untalented in the ring. Now, if there was a big guy who wasn't asking WWE prices and was good in the ring, I see no reason why they wouldn't hire one...other than the fact that, you know, ROH is trying to be different from the WWE. I'm going to disagree with you there about everyone doing the same thing, but maybe that's just me. It was an overreaction to say EVERYBODY does the same thing, because there are obviously stand-outs (Danielson, Aries, etc.) but the lower-to-midcard guys share so many moves it's ridiculous. A lot of it boils down to the beginning match moves which, from what it seemed like at the last show, consists soley of knife-edged chops, stiff kicks, and enziguris. Also, at the same show, two matches were ended by a nice looking brainbuster, but it wasn't any different from each other. I look for separation between these wrestlers. I was raised on the WWF, where everybody was somebody different from one another. While their in-ring product might not have been good, everybody had a character, a gimmick that they utilized. Outside of a few, so many in ROH tend to blend in with each other. As somebody whose only recently started to get into ROH, I've noticed that too. Over the course of the first pay-per-view, I started getting numb from all the lariats and enzuguris. |
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Post by HMARK Center on Oct 30, 2007 17:42:15 GMT -5
In terms of varying movesets, I do wish this: I want ROH to tone down the NOAH influence just a little bit. Not much, since I do enjoy it, but I do want to see some more pure mat wrestling, which ROH hasn't done as much of in recent times. It's not the end of the world (styles evolve and change, nature of the beast), but, for example, Nigel has to start re-incorporating some of his Pure Wrestling style that he's forsaken these days for lariats.
That all said, the heavy amount of striking in ROH today doesn't bother me.
Here's the big deal: they NEED a color commentator. Punk was one, Corino was one, they were both excellent. Prazak and Leonard are fine, but they're both play by play. Have one turn heel? I mean, Prazak does run DP Associates in FIP...
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Post by silverking on Oct 30, 2007 17:56:28 GMT -5
And the shooting star presses. When Sydal was still with ROH it was him, one of the briscoes, and Davey Richards that did SSP's.
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JMA
Hank Scorpio
Down With Capitalism!
Posts: 6,880
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Post by JMA on Oct 30, 2007 18:20:18 GMT -5
They need more evil heels. Danielson and Morishima aren't really evil.
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Post by AmericanDragon420 on Oct 30, 2007 18:40:11 GMT -5
They need more evil heels. Danielson and Morishima aren't really evil. Age of the Fall. |
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Post by Hensley on Oct 30, 2007 18:44:51 GMT -5
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Post by T Vang is a HO-DADDY~! on Oct 30, 2007 19:08:24 GMT -5
They need more evil heels. Danielson and Morishima aren't really evil. This is kind of a tough one since all of the guys there are really good wrestlers and that's what the fans want to see. They have alot of tweeners because the fans cheer good wrestling. I think the thing that could make somebody hated is if they had an extremely limited (hoss-like) moveset. |
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JMA
Hank Scorpio
Down With Capitalism!
Posts: 6,880
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Post by JMA on Oct 30, 2007 20:20:13 GMT -5
They need more evil heels. Danielson and Morishima aren't really evil. Age of the Fall. Correct me if I'm wrong, but they aren't really at the same position on the card as Danielson and Morishima, right? Plus, Jacobs can be sympathetic at times. I really wanted to see him get Lacey. |
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JMA
Hank Scorpio
Down With Capitalism!
Posts: 6,880
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Post by JMA on Oct 30, 2007 20:24:01 GMT -5
They need more evil heels. Danielson and Morishima aren't really evil. This is kind of a tough one since all of the guys there are really good wrestlers and that's what the fans want to see. They have alot of tweeners because the fans cheer good wrestling. I think the thing that could make somebody hated is if they had an extremely limited (hoss-like) moveset. I don't think pushing bad wrestlers as heels is the way to go. They need to find a way to make great wrestlers into great heels, ones who don't get crowd support. Someone like Larry Sweeney would make a great ROH Champion. He's a good wrestler, but he also doesn't put on the kind of matches ROH fans like. |
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Post by Viking Snad on Oct 30, 2007 20:27:58 GMT -5
Two words:
Paul Heyman.
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Mr. Mediocre
Hank Scorpio
Bert Early?... sorry, that's a typo. Butt. Ugly.
Much better since I was last here.
Posts: 6,249
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Post by Mr. Mediocre on Oct 30, 2007 20:28:07 GMT -5
Correct me if I'm wrong, but they aren't really at the same position on the card as Danielson and Morishima, right? Plus, Jacobs can be sympathetic at times. I really wanted to see him get Lacey. Well, they're currently feuding with the top tag team in ROH, who are unquestionably main eventers. Also, Jimmy looked to be heading toward main event status before his injury in the cage match with Whitmer. And if you're still not with them as main event material, there's always the ruthless No Remorse Corps. |
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Post by Shy Guy on Oct 30, 2007 20:29:00 GMT -5
Correct me if I'm wrong, but they aren't really at the same position on the card as Danielson and Morishima, right? Plus, Jacobs can be sympathetic at times. I really wanted to see him get Lacey. he did "get" lacey. and then realized he didnt love her... but she realized she loved him. it was romantic... |
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Post by HMARK Center on Oct 30, 2007 21:07:46 GMT -5
This is kind of a tough one since all of the guys there are really good wrestlers and that's what the fans want to see. They have alot of tweeners because the fans cheer good wrestling. I think the thing that could make somebody hated is if they had an extremely limited (hoss-like) moveset. I don't think pushing bad wrestlers as heels is the way to go. They need to find a way to make great wrestlers into great heels, ones who don't get crowd support. Someone like Larry Sweeney would make a great ROH Champion. He's a good wrestler, but he also doesn't put on the kind of matches ROH fans like. They've done it before, but "uber-evil" heels have never really been a big thing in ROH. Monster heels, yes, but for pure evil, I think the only clear examples I can think of are currently Age of the Fall (and yeah, Jimmy's ultra heel now, and after getting Lacey he ditched the whole emo act for the "nothing saves" mentality), and in the past the early days of Chris Daniels and the Prophecy, then of Punk's run from 2003 through early 2004, namely during the Raven feud. Early Samoa Joe and Morishima were simply monsters with little regard for anyone's well being, but not out and out "evil", either. Dragon COULD be evil a bunch of times, but then he'd act face, due to his "I'll wrestle/act whatever way I want, not the way people want me to" character; it all simply depended on the situation (i.e. during the span of ONE match, he was face against CZW, but heel against Samoa Joe). Adam Pearce has that potential, though, to be a big evil heel. The Hero/Sweeney tandem are great for that, too, but sort of in the same way the Embassy was. |
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Post by T Vang is a HO-DADDY~! on Oct 30, 2007 21:15:40 GMT -5
This is kind of a tough one since all of the guys there are really good wrestlers and that's what the fans want to see. They have alot of tweeners because the fans cheer good wrestling. I think the thing that could make somebody hated is if they had an extremely limited (hoss-like) moveset. I don't think pushing bad wrestlers as heels is the way to go. They need to find a way to make great wrestlers into great heels, ones who don't get crowd support. Someone like Larry Sweeney would make a great ROH Champion. He's a good wrestler, but he also doesn't put on the kind of matches ROH fans like. I didn't mean necessarily a bad wrestler, more like good wrestler who uses 5 moves of doom just to get heat from the fans. |
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Post by HMARK Center on Oct 30, 2007 21:35:27 GMT -5
That's kind of what Punk was as a heel, in some ways.
But, really, good wrestlers can get over as heels in ROH; they have before and they will again. Thing is, every upper card wrestler in ROH is going to have his vocal cheering section, nothing you can do about it. Even when Dragon would be at his absolute most heelish, there'd still be Green Lantern and his posse screaming for him like teenage British girls pining for Paul McCartney.
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Reverend BTY
Hank Scorpio
Christian Troy: God's Gift
Posts: 7,206
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Post by Reverend BTY on Oct 30, 2007 21:52:44 GMT -5
Correct me if I'm wrong, but they aren't really at the same position on the card as Danielson and Morishima, right? Plus, Jacobs can be sympathetic at times. I really wanted to see him get Lacey. he did "get" lacey. and then realized he didnt love her... but she realized she loved him. it was romantic... *SIGH* The opposite of real life... Anyway, I know y'all have kind of passed this but I do think lucha should be incorporated more. I'm not saying you need half the card to consist of lucha libre but maybe a match. If anything, it could help spread the word of ROH and maybe catch new fans. They come to see Mistico and stay because they enjoy Jack Evans. Just because an over the hill Konnan had a bad match doesn't mean they should completely turn their back to a style of wrestling. That's just my two cents. I also want less lariats. Love the move, but it feels like every other match has at least a few in them. I'm looking at you Nigel... Lastly, I'd like to see the occasional 'big name'. I'm not saying it has to be Hogan doing a run in but someone that can have a match that the RoH crowd would enjoy. For some reason I think an Ultimo Dragon vs Austin Aries match being really cool. I know you have to establish yourself as your own entity but would a guest appearance once or twice by a special star be a big deal? Anyway, those are my suggestions. I'd love to hear feedback on'em though. |
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Joekishi
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,490
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Post by Joekishi on Oct 30, 2007 22:02:02 GMT -5
A show in syndication shown in LA, just because that's how I found ECW.
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