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Post by DAGOTRON LIVES! on Nov 2, 2007 23:30:14 GMT -5
So I'm watching the Monday Night War DVD right now -- I haven't seen it in a while -- and there's something I've always thought was funny about the Bash at the Beach where Hogan joined the nWo.
As Hogan comes down the ramp to make the save (or so we think), Schiavone and Zbysko are cheering him on (I think Schiavone may have had an orgasm live on the air). Bobby Heenan almost immediately asks, "Yeah, but whose side is he on?" Even as Schiavone calls him crazy, Heenan (in a louder tone) again says, "WHOSE side is he on?" Then everyone is shocked a few seconds later when Hogan drops the leg on Macho Man.
Why did Heenan say that? IMO, I think it ultimately took a little something away from the heel turn by foreshadowing it. Now that I'm watching it over 13 years later, it definitely makes the moment less special in retrospect. There was NO reason to believe that Hogan would be going out there to do anything but help the faces, right?
And to preempt the inevitable discussion off-shoot, I know it doesn't make sense to have another face make a run-in on a handicap match in which the faces already have a man-up advantage. Although if Nash/Hall had already been booked as trying to kill WCW before the Bash, such a run-in would make sense.
P.S. This is my first thread start. I think I waited an appropriate amount of time and posts before I took this step (as I only want to contribute good stuff around these parts.) Armbar.
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Post by angryfan on Nov 2, 2007 23:34:57 GMT -5
The whole "why'd Heenan say that?" debate has come up before, but, since it was Heenan, it made complete and total sense. If it would've been any other announcer, it would've been very odd, but Heenan had been second-guessing Hogan pretty much forever. Every move Hogan made, Heenan would wonder aloud about him, so I just took it as "Bobby being Bobby". Badly timed, perhaps, given the situation, but we must remember, WCW announcers have said in the past that they weren't privy to angles ahead of time.
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dannyrctv
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Post by dannyrctv on Nov 2, 2007 23:36:54 GMT -5
I agree it kind dropped a hint.Hogan's name was mentioned week's earlier as one of the guys who wanted to face the Outsiders but Luger,Sting,& Savage were chosen.
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Post by Mongo & Pepe: Back in Black on Nov 2, 2007 23:37:49 GMT -5
Well, Heenan always had kayfabe hate for Hogan. So, for him to be happy that Hogan was coming out to save the babyfaces would be against his character. And, he has said that he legitimately did not know that Hogan was the third man because WCW didn't tell their announcers anything ahead of time.
Also, regarding the handicap match comment, Luger had been taken out earlier in the match, so it was 2 on 2 at that point. Some say that the reason Luger was taken out is because he would have ended up being the third man if Hogan got cold feet and decided not to do it.
One thing I find funny, is that in more recent DVD releases of that same match, including the latest Hogan DVD set, they completely erase that line from the commentary.
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bob
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Post by bob on Nov 2, 2007 23:55:21 GMT -5
that completely ruined the moment for me  |
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Post by DAGOTRON LIVES! on Nov 2, 2007 23:58:56 GMT -5
Some say that the reason Luger was taken out is because he would have ended up being the third man if Hogan got cold feet and decided not to do it. I really don't want to derail the thread topic, but sweet Christ almighty that would've sucked worse than Jerry Bruckheimer's next film. |
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Post by I'm The Cool One on Nov 2, 2007 23:59:23 GMT -5
yeah teh moment would have been better without it in retrospect... BUT... it was totally heenan's character... he was always talking about how Hogan was only out for himself. no matter WHAT hogan was doing.. hogan could donate a billion dollars to cancer research and heenan would say "he's only doing it so AIDS can grow stronger" or something. so i can ee from both sides... yeah it could have been left out, however, it was definately a heenan thing to say.
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Post by Mongo & Pepe: Back in Black on Nov 3, 2007 0:00:57 GMT -5
Some say that the reason Luger was taken out is because he would have ended up being the third man if Hogan got cold feet and decided not to do it. I really don't want to derail the thread topic, but sweet Christ almighty that would've sucked worse than Jerry Bruckheimer's next film. That should be Jed's next Rewriting the Book: What if...Lex Luger was the third man? |
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Post by wahoowah11 on Nov 3, 2007 0:10:18 GMT -5
or sting
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Agent P
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Post by Agent P on Nov 3, 2007 2:13:05 GMT -5
By the way, Dusty Rhodes was the color man, not Larry Z.
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Post by -Lithium- on Nov 3, 2007 2:48:52 GMT -5
It was in his character I guess, but it still kinda messed up the moment...
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Post by normcoleman on Nov 3, 2007 3:16:10 GMT -5
In a way, I saw it coming. The red and yellow was running its course in 1996.
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Post by skillz on Nov 3, 2007 8:00:10 GMT -5
The whole "why'd Heenan say that?" debate has come up before, but, since it was Heenan, it made complete and total sense. If it would've been any other announcer, it would've been very odd, but Heenan had been second-guessing Hogan pretty much forever. Every move Hogan made, Heenan would wonder aloud about him, so I just took it as "Bobby being Bobby". Badly timed, perhaps, given the situation, but we must remember, WCW announcers have said in the past that they weren't privy to angles ahead of time. The thing that gets me with that reasoning is Heenan should have known better. We were marks at the time. Heenan was in the business for decades. He probably knew Hogan was the 3rd guy just by his experience (even if he didn't know the actual booking plans....which seems a bit fishy to me but whatever). Bad timing definitely. He could have just said "what's Hogan doing here?" It would have given off the same suspicious vibe that Heenan was going for without blowing the plot twist. It may not have ruined the surprise for everyone, but the worst thing anyone can do in those situations is hint at a plot twist seconds before it happens. That makes it a possibility in people's minds and ruins the shock a bit. |
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Post by angryfan on Nov 3, 2007 8:06:08 GMT -5
I'll agree in retrospect it would appear that it ruined the "surprise feel", and maybe to young kids who hadn't grown up with Heenan lambasting Hogan for the better part of 12 years at that point it did. My thing about the announcers not knowing ahead of time is something taht I've heard Hudson, Schiavone, and I'm pretty sure Tenay all say, they were never clued in ahead of time to angles, because it would make their reactiosn seem more "real".
My guess is Heenan, being who he is, was just rolling with the usual "be suspicious of Hogan at every turn and try to undermine him" deal he always did.
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Hiroshi Hase
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Post by Hiroshi Hase on Nov 3, 2007 8:08:40 GMT -5
I'll agree in retrospect it would appear that it ruined the "surprise feel", and maybe to young kids who hadn't grown up with Heenan lambasting Hogan for the better part of 12 years at that point it did. My thing about the announcers not knowing ahead of time is something taht I've heard Hudson, Schiavone, and I'm pretty sure Tenay all say, they were never clued in ahead of time to angles, because it would make their reactiosn seem more "real". My guess is Heenan, being who he is, was just rolling with the usual "be suspicious of Hogan at every turn and try to undermine him" deal he always did. That's how I saw it as well. It may have been ill-timed, but that was Heenan's character, he'd say things like that about most babyfaces. It's not as if Heenan had Vince in his headset telling him that Hogan is the 3rd guy so don't blow it. Hindsight is 20x20. And it's not like it ruined anything really as the nWo still took off and got over like crazy. |
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Post by DAGOTRON LIVES! on Nov 3, 2007 8:10:10 GMT -5
The thing that gets me with that reasoning is Heenan should have known better. We were marks at the time. Heenan was in the business for decades. He probably knew Hogan was the 3rd guy just by his experience (even if he didn't know the actual booking plans....which seems a bit fishy to me but whatever). Bad timing definitely. He could have just said "what's Hogan doing here?" It would have given off the same suspicious vibe that Heenan was going for without blowing the plot twist. It may not have ruined the surprise for everyone, but the worst thing anyone can do in those situations is hint at a plot twist seconds before it happens. That makes it a possibility in people's minds and ruins the shock a bit. Excellent, excellent point. I'd even go as far as to call it a salient point. By the way, Dusty Rhodes was the color man, not Larry Z. Thanks, I just kind of assumed. Whoever it was, there is no way he could ever feel as good as Tony sounded when Hogan came down the ramp. If the camera had been on him, he probably would've been showing his O face. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2007 8:30:32 GMT -5
I think it would've been better if Heenan had said nothing.
Yeah, he's been a Hogan doubter since the dawn of time, but it would've made the heel turn that much more impactful if not even Brain saw it coming.
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Hiroshi Hase
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Post by Hiroshi Hase on Nov 3, 2007 8:37:19 GMT -5
I think it would've been better if Heenan had said nothing. Yeah, he's been a Hogan doubter since the dawn of time, but it would've made the heel turn that much more impactful if not even Brain saw it coming. Maybe so, but it happened. Looking back on it, we could say that, but it's not like he meant to do it to try and sabotage the show. The angle still went off very well and got more heat than they knew what to do with. |
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Post by mysterydriver on Nov 3, 2007 9:04:16 GMT -5
The little celebration he threw after the legdrop was sort of amusing though.
"I told you! I TOLD YOU!!!"
Schivonnie (Sounding like someone told him Santa Claus isn't real): Yeah, Brain. You did.
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Blindkarevik
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Post by Blindkarevik on Nov 3, 2007 9:21:26 GMT -5
Heenan, being a heel, means he's always supposed to be wrong. He's supposed to look at the top, do-gooder face as nothing but a lowlife, making completely ridiculous claims about them. In hindsight, since we all know what happened, yes... maybe it gave it away. But, in the moment, it just sounded like Heenan doing his typical bitching about Hogan. The swerve was, this time he was actually right.
Plus, remember... when Hogan made his entrance, the Outsiders were dominating. It made sense for Hogan to come to ringside, after a short sabbatical, and defend WCW from the Outsiders. So, when he ultimately turned... it still had the desired effect.
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