Is Bret Hart's book worth buying?

["Handsome" Whitey Fats]

evildead2099 said:

whiteyfats said:

The hitman desrves everything that has happened to him. Maybe if he'd try to be a pro for once in his career karma wouldn't have come back to bite him on the ass

So you think he deserved to receive a concussion, a stroke, and to have his brother die tragically in a horrific accident?

Either you are are an insensitive prick with some sort of psychotic vendetta against Hart, or you're trying to to make yourself out to be this board's biggest a-hole.

On second thought, I think you're both. You're trolling in a thread where you obviously don't belong, and you're making moronic statements like "maybe if he'd try to be a pro for once in his career" despite the vast consensus that Bret has a great record of jobbing and putting others over.

Why the hell are you even participating in this thread? If you hate Bret Hart so much, don't troll in threads which ostensibly concern Bret Hart. Instead, stick to those which suit your preferences.

Because my opinion differs from yours I'm a troll? I see. That's an intelligent, well thought out argument

[lildude8218]

evildead2099 said:

whiteyfats said:

Side with Bret? Why? He refused to lose in a fake match. I'm glad it happened. Couldn't happen to a nicer guy

Don't be a twit.

I don't think he's being a pregnant goldfish at all. Oh wait, you insulted the guy. Even if you don't agree with him, don't take it down that road.

And please, everyone just talk about the book. Nothing good is going to come of the same arguments going around in circles.

[eDemento2099]

whiteyfats said:

evildead2099 said:

So you think he deserved to receive a concussion, a stroke, and to have his brother die tragically in a horrific accident?

Either you are are an insensitive prick with some sort of psychotic vendetta against Hart, or you're trying to to make yourself out to be this board's biggest a-hole.

On second thought, I think you're both. You're trolling in a thread where you obviously don't belong, and you're making moronic statements like "maybe if he'd try to be a pro for once in his career" despite the vast consensus that Bret has a great record of jobbing and putting others over.

Why the hell are you even participating in this thread? If you hate Bret Hart so much, don't troll in threads which ostensibly concern Bret Hart. Instead, stick to those which suit your preferences.

Because my opinion differs from yours I'm a troll? I see. That's an intelligent, well thought out argument

I already said why you're a troll. In fact, you quoted my reason, which proves that you don't care to consider anyone's points but your own. For the record, here is what I said:

you're making moronic statements like "maybe if he'd try to be a pro for once in his career" despite the vast consensus that Bret has a great record of jobbing and putting others over.

As someone else point out, you haven't made one point that can be proven or disproven, so you of all people have no right to speak of making "intelligent, well thought-out argument(s)."

Anyway, its a lost cause to waste any more time on you. This topic has already been derailed enough.

[Mozenrath]

.....so, about how long is the book, and how much does it cost?

["Handsome" Whitey Fats]

evildead2099 said:

whiteyfats said:

Because my opinion differs from yours I'm a troll? I see. That's an intelligent, well thought out argument

I already said why you're a troll. In fact, you quoted my reason, which proves that you don't care to consider anyone's points but your own. For the record, here is what I said:

you're making moronic statements like "maybe if he'd try to be a pro for once in his career" despite the vast consensus that Bret has a great record of jobbing and putting others over.

As someone else point out, you haven't made one point that can be proven or disproven, so you of all people have no right to speak of making "intelligent, well thought-out argument(s)."

Anyway, its a lost cause to waste any more time on you. This topic has already been derailed enough.

So do you actually discuss wrestling, or just randomly insult people whose opinions differ from yours?

[Mozenrath]

whiteyfats said:

evildead2099 said:

I already said why you're a troll. In fact, you quoted my reason, which proves that you don't care to consider anyone's points but your own. For the record, here is what I said:



As someone else point out, you haven't made one point that can be proven or disproven, so you of all people have no right to speak of making "intelligent, well thought-out argument(s)."

Anyway, its a lost cause to waste any more time on you. This topic has already been derailed enough.

So do you actually discuss wrestling, or just randomly insult people whose opinions differ from yours?

Guys, the mod said knock it off. Take it to PM.

[#Classic Hi-Definition X]

Any more bickering and this thread gets shut down. Do I make myself clear?

[uncleslam]

After I read Bret's book, I went out and got Shawn Michaels' book too, because although I've always sided with Bret, I wanted to hear Michaels' side of the story too to see if it would change my opinion.

Well I finished Shawn's book and I honestly haven't changed my opinion. Although Shawn seems genuine with his new found faith, he seems to do a lot of "I was young and dumb and I'm really sorry for doing that," yet where Bret is concerned, he makes no apologies and likes to take little pot shots at him. Every time he doesn, it just feels very strange. He seems so genuine with wanting to be a "Man of God" yet when the bitterness towards Bret emerges, he seems very un-Godly. I just don't understand why Shawn can't get past it.

In Bret's book, Bret may trash Shawn, but I honestly get the feeling like Bret just doesn't care anymore. Like when he calls Shawn a little bastard, it's with a defeatedness to it, like there isn't really any bitterness or hatred behind it. Probably because Bret's been through Hell in other aspects of his life and now Shawn seems little more than a pimple on his ass. Yet when Shawn takes shots at Bret, I feel a very real sense of hostility still there. Strange.

Bret's book is masterfully written, too. It's very similar to The Catcher In The Rye, actually. You get a sense of a loss of innocence, of pain and suffering, and a genuine desire to be a good person and help other people, but just too many forces are working against him for that to happen. Each chapter is it's own little story with a beginning, middle, and end. I laughed and cried reading Bret's book. He beautifully describes not only what's happening, but what he was feeling, and what others were feeling too.

Shawn's book, however...I just seemed to keep rolling my eyes. He has no idea how to write a compelling book. He mostly just writes in a "this happened, then this happened, then this happened" style. For example, "Wrestling Bob Backlund was nice." I'm not kidding you, that's what he had to say about wrestling Bob Backlund. In Bret's book, Bret wrote that he was honored to give "This great champion back his title" and relished the opportunity to restore some pride and honor to Backlund's tarnished title history.

Shawn, on the other hand, thought wrestling Bob was "nice."

And Shawn just jumps all over the place too. He talks about meeting Greg Gagne in the AWA, and then he'll jump forward 20 years and say "By the way, I saw him again at the WWE Hall of Fame ceremony and was talked about this and that." Then he'll rewind back 20 years and finish his Greg Gagne story from that time period. It's all very confusing. Bret's book is much more linear, Shawn's is all over the place.

What really amazes me is how bad a writer Shawn is, considering how great a talker he is and how charismatic he is. He comes off like a really dumb jock with how he writes in his book. Really empty headed. Ironic that Bret, who always seemed the less charismatic of the two and much more quiet, is the more talented, eloquent and well-spoken writer.

[eDemento2099]

uncleslam said:

After I read Bret's book, I went out and got Shawn Michaels' book too, because although I've always sided with Bret, I wanted to hear Michaels' side of the story too to see if it would change my opinion.

Well I finished Shawn's book and I honestly haven't changed my opinion. Although Shawn seems genuine with his new found faith, he seems to do a lot of "I was young and dumb and I'm really sorry for doing that," yet where Bret is concerned, he makes no apologies and likes to take little pot shots at him. Every time he doesn, it just feels very strange. He seems so genuine with wanting to be a "Man of God" yet when the bitterness towards Bret emerges, he seems very un-Godly. I just don't understand why Shawn can't get past it.

In Bret's book, Bret may trash Shawn, but I honestly get the feeling like Bret just doesn't care anymore. Like when he calls Shawn a little bastard, it's with a defeatedness to it, like there isn't really any bitterness or hatred behind it. Probably because Bret's been through Hell in other aspects of his life and now Shawn seems little more than a pimple on his ass. Yet when Shawn takes shots at Bret, I feel a very real sense of hostility still there. Strange.

Bret's book is masterfully written, too. It's very similar to The Catcher In The Rye, actually. You get a sense of a loss of innocence, of pain and suffering, and a genuine desire to be a good person and help other people, but just too many forces are working against him for that to happen. Each chapter is it's own little story with a beginning, middle, and end. I laughed and cried reading Bret's book. He beautifully describes not only what's happening, but what he was feeling, and what others were feeling too.

Shawn's book, however...I just seemed to keep rolling my eyes. He has no idea how to write a compelling book. He mostly just writes in a "this happened, then this happened, then this happened" style. For example, "Wrestling Bob Backlund was nice." I'm not kidding you, that's what he had to say about wrestling Bob Backlund. In Bret's book, Bret wrote that he was honored to give "This great champion back his title" and relished the opportunity to restore some pride and honor to Backlund's tarnished title history.

Shawn, on the other hand, thought wrestling Bob was "nice."

And Shawn just jumps all over the place too. He talks about meeting Greg Gagne in the AWA, and then he'll jump forward 20 years and say "By the way, I saw him again at the WWE Hall of Fame ceremony and was talked about this and that." Then he'll rewind back 20 years and finish his Greg Gagne story from that time period. It's all very confusing. Bret's book is much more linear, Shawn's is all over the place.

What really amazes me is how bad a writer Shawn is, considering how great a talker he is and how charismatic he is. He comes off like a really dumb jock with how he writes in his book. Really empty headed. Ironic that Bret, who always seemed the less charismatic of the two and much more quiet, is the more talented, eloquent and well-spoken writer.

Thanks so much for that (valid) contribution. I wasn't expecting such a detailed analysis of Hart's book, but I got it - and then some! I appreciate the comparative analysis of Shawn's book as well. I haven't read the latter, but I'm surprised to hear about the style of writing you described, though.

I always assumed that Bret be more likely to tell a compelling account than Shawn. Your point that Shawn was always the more charismatic and outspoke of the two is certainly true, but that always made me think that Bret was more introspective and reflective - the kind of man who would best pour his thoughts out while enjoying tea / coffee than in the middle of a noisy sports arena.

["Handsome" Whitey Fats]

uncleslam said:

After I read Bret's book, I went out and got Shawn Michaels' book too, because although I've always sided with Bret, I wanted to hear Michaels' side of the story too to see if it would change my opinion.

Well I finished Shawn's book and I honestly haven't changed my opinion. Although Shawn seems genuine with his new found faith, he seems to do a lot of "I was young and dumb and I'm really sorry for doing that," yet where Bret is concerned, he makes no apologies and likes to take little pot shots at him. Every time he doesn, it just feels very strange. He seems so genuine with wanting to be a "Man of God" yet when the bitterness towards Bret emerges, he seems very un-Godly. I just don't understand why Shawn can't get past it.

In Bret's book, Bret may trash Shawn, but I honestly get the feeling like Bret just doesn't care anymore. Like when he calls Shawn a little bastard, it's with a defeatedness to it, like there isn't really any bitterness or hatred behind it. Probably because Bret's been through Hell in other aspects of his life and now Shawn seems little more than a pimple on his ass. Yet when Shawn takes shots at Bret, I feel a very real sense of hostility still there. Strange.

Bret's book is masterfully written, too. It's very similar to The Catcher In The Rye, actually. You get a sense of a loss of innocence, of pain and suffering, and a genuine desire to be a good person and help other people, but just too many forces are working against him for that to happen. Each chapter is it's own little story with a beginning, middle, and end. I laughed and cried reading Bret's book. He beautifully describes not only what's happening, but what he was feeling, and what others were feeling too.

Shawn's book, however...I just seemed to keep rolling my eyes. He has no idea how to write a compelling book. He mostly just writes in a "this happened, then this happened, then this happened" style. For example, "Wrestling Bob Backlund was nice." I'm not kidding you, that's what he had to say about wrestling Bob Backlund. In Bret's book, Bret wrote that he was honored to give "This great champion back his title" and relished the opportunity to restore some pride and honor to Backlund's tarnished title history.

Shawn, on the other hand, thought wrestling Bob was "nice."

And Shawn just jumps all over the place too. He talks about meeting Greg Gagne in the AWA, and then he'll jump forward 20 years and say "By the way, I saw him again at the WWE Hall of Fame ceremony and was talked about this and that." Then he'll rewind back 20 years and finish his Greg Gagne story from that time period. It's all very confusing. Bret's book is much more linear, Shawn's is all over the place.

What really amazes me is how bad a writer Shawn is, considering how great a talker he is and how charismatic he is. He comes off like a really dumb jock with how he writes in his book. Really empty headed. Ironic that Bret, who always seemed the less charismatic of the two and much more quiet, is the more talented, eloquent and well-spoken writer.

Shawn had a piss poor ghost writer I think

[ddt]

kiddobradley said:

.....so, about how long is the book, and how much does it cost?

I can't remember how many pages at the moment (around 500, perhaps), but it cost $35.00 here in Canada. Well worth it.

[thestinger]

I haven't read Bret's book yet, and I wouldn't waste my time reading Shawn's but I think Heh!? made a good point.

In the years immediately following the screwjob all three of the principal players (Vince, Shawn and Bret) seemed to be obsessed with what happened.

Since his retirement though, it seems that Bret has moved on, and the other two maybe haven't. Bret doesn't really bring up Montreal during interviews and doesn't feel the need to constantly revisit it as he was once accused of doing.

The last time the topic came up Bret said flat out that he hasn't forgiven, but he's moved on. After all, after so many years, what is left to say?

He also implied that maybe the reason Vince and Shawn are still obsessively defending themselves is because they perhaps have unresolved guilt over the incident where Bret has a clean conscience.

Personally I doubt it because since when does Vince have a conscience? He even defends continuing the show after Owen freaking died in the ring.

["Handsome" Whitey Fats]

Shawn's book was pretty good. Was nice to hear his side for a change

[thestinger]

I wouldn't bother reading Michael's book because I don't think he was ever anything special, in the ring or outside.

Does Michaels' side of events differ in any way from Vince's version of events that we've heard non-stop from the company since 97?

Does he try to blame Vince? I mean Bret says Shawn was 'crying like a baby' in the corner when he got backstage, and the documentary crew recorded Shawn begging Bret not to blame him. He sounded guilty.

I'm looking forward to reading Bret's book but not for the chapter on Montreal. I've heard everything Bret has to say on that topic a LONG time ago.

[redbull]

whiteyfats said:

Shawn's book was pretty good. Was nice to hear his side for a change

yeah but hes had ALOT of sides, you can't tell when hes actually you know, telling the truth.

[uncleslam]

thestinger said:

I haven't read Bret's book yet, and I wouldn't waste my time reading Shawn's but I think Heh!? made a good point.

In the years immediately following the screwjob all three of the principal players (Vince, Shawn and Bret) seemed to be obsessed with what happened.

Since his retirement though, it seems that Bret has moved on, and the other two maybe haven't. Bret doesn't really bring up Montreal during interviews and doesn't feel the need to constantly revisit it as he was once accused of doing.

The last time the topic came up Bret said flat out that he hasn't forgiven, but he's moved on. After all, after so many years, what is left to say?

He also implied that maybe the reason Vince and Shawn are still obsessively defending themselves is because they perhaps have unresolved guilt over the incident where Bret has a clean conscience.

Personally I doubt it because since when does Vince have a conscience? He even defends continuing the show after Owen freaking died in the ring.

Good points. Vince just keeps revisiting it because it stirs interest in his product (he thinks). As long as the people chant "You Screwed Bret," Vince will continue to play along with it. In all honesty, it's the fans that can't let go, not Bret or Vince.

Shawn though...yeah, me thinks he doth protest too loudly. He lied, plain and simple, and tries to justify it by saying Bret was a spoiled brat. Shawn should read Bret's book and maybe he'll have a different opinion. Bret grew up in poverty. He never owned his own clothes, he had to wear hand-me-downs until his mid-late teens. He'd get picked on at school because of how poor he was, which is a really crappy thing to get picked on for, so he got into a lot of fights. He had to wear shorts once in the winter to school because there just wasn't enough money for pants. He ran away from home once, and his family didn't even notice. Shawn might think Bret was shown preferential treatment in Stampede because Stu ran it, but the truth is that Stu just didn't have anyone else to put the belt on because wrestlers were in and out so often, so he had no choice but to put it on Bret. Instead of being like most promotors sons who got the push and really sucked, Bret should be applauded for having the desire to want to earn his spot by training hard and trying to be the best wrestler in the world, rather than just sitting on his laurels and taking advantage of having his father run the company. Bret always felt like he had to earn his spot, moreso than anyone else because he was Stu's son, so anyone who calls him spoiled is merely uninformed.

Shawn, on the other hand, admits in his book to being a mamma's boy. The toughest time he had was the first few hours of his life when his mother refused to hold him, because he was a "surprise." The nurses convinced his mom to finally hold him, and when she did, it seemed like she never wanted to let go after that. She pampered him and babyed him, and from the sound of it, if anyone was a spoiled brat, it was Shawn Michaels.

I find it peculiar that Shawn seems to have genuinely changed his ways over the last few years, but still strongly defends certain assholish things he's done in the past. If you're going to repent, go all out. Don't pick and choose.

[uncleslam]

A word on trolls...

I realize it can be very difficult to ignore something that is rude, insensetive and just plain uninformed. But you have to understand that if you speak to trolls, they'll speak back to you, and only give you more of what's frustrating you. So when you think about it, replying to a troll is really silly, and only creates more frustration.

Please, just ignore trollish comments. One of two things will eventually happen. The troll will go away because they sorely require attention and when they don't get it here, they'll seek it elsewhere. Or the troll will continue posting trollish comments and get reprimanded by the mods here. If it's the later, then you should really feel pity for the troll, because it's just a sad image, constantly posting comments meant to annoy, getting no response, no attention, yet continuing to post hoping that someone will enduldge them in an argument.

So I would ask that we all show a higher level of restraint and maturity than the troll is capable of and just let any trollish comments roll off your back and focus on the intelligent or humorous posts and reward those with repsonses, becasue they certainly deserve it more than a troll's post.

["Handsome" Whitey Fats]

I see. So I'm not allowed to have an opinion that differs from yours? And because it does on this issue I'm a troll? I have said no trollish things what so ever, you just can't handle anyone who might have a different opinion than yours.

[G2]

whiteyfats said:

evildead2099 said:

I already said why you're a troll. In fact, you quoted my reason, which proves that you don't care to consider anyone's points but your own. For the record, here is what I said:



As someone else point out, you haven't made one point that can be proven or disproven, so you of all people have no right to speak of making "intelligent, well thought-out argument(s)."

Anyway, its a lost cause to waste any more time on you. This topic has already been derailed enough.

So do you actually discuss wrestling, or just randomly insult people whose opinions differ from yours?

Dude care to comment on the book?

If not then please smurf off... Your arguing is beyond tedium. As a mod has already stated it's old hat, you have nothing to say that hasn't already been said. I don't care who is right/wrong/humping your mum.

I'd like to hear others thoughts on the book and their favourite parts.


For instance I enjoyed reading about the early days with Dynamite Kid, so much so that I stayed up til 5am watching the wrestling channel here in the UK, it was a best of dynamite kid 4 hour thing. Showed loads of Stampede wrestling stuff I really enjoyed. Anyone else watched it since reading the book? Strange to see a skinny kid called Davey Boy Smith with Bret; and Dynamite in Japan taking on the legendary Tiger Mask.

[J is Justice]

thestinger said:

I don't think he was ever anything special, in the ring