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Post by wrestlecrapcrap on Oct 6, 2009 14:42:57 GMT -5
The most important thing to point out about this conversation is how all 3 men laugh about it, loudly. All 3. Because they know what the business is, and they know that in the end, it's business. Not personal. "But, but Triple was giving a fake, condescending laugh~!" ''He's burying Jericho by smiling!'' That's a great video, and pretty much proves the point it was trying to go against. Jericho doesn't care. HHH doesn't care. If circumstances were right and called for a Jericho win, Vince wouldn't care. It's just never been right for Jericho to beat HHH. Kinda frustrating for his fans, but then...so what? Punk struggles to beat Morrison, but I don't think Punk constantly complains. |
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Post by rrm15 on Oct 6, 2009 14:44:39 GMT -5
Jericho is basically my all time favorite and I've never really liked Triple H. Actually, I can't stand him. But at this point Jericho is made and that can't be undone, so it really doesn't matter that he loses to Triple H. I mean, I would like him to and I don't understand why he HAS to always be Hunters bitch, but its not like he's jobbing out left and right.
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Post by King Boo on Oct 6, 2009 15:11:00 GMT -5
I really hate when someone complains about something like this and then someone comes in and says: WHO CARES? I mean...maybe Jericho fans care. Maybe they get sick of seeing Triple H own Jericho everytime. I know, I know...its just wrestling, its a fake sport, etc. yet still, everyone has their favorites. Also, I dont see whats wrong with establishing one guy as superior to the other when its midcard vs. main eventer, but when its two main eventers YES, there is a problem. Two ME guys should be somewhat equal. There should be some doubt as to the outcome when they face each other. EG. HBK vs. Jericho. Anytime they wrestle you arent sure who is going to win. It makes things, you know...more exciting, more interesting? It makes you want to watch. Excellent post. It isn't always as smarky and deep as sensible booking and arguing rubs and pushes. Sometimes you just want to see your favorites beat someone you don't care for. When it NEVER happens, it can be a tad frustrating to say the least. Exactly. I'm not coming from an angle other than "Chris Jericho is, and has been for quite some time, my favorite wrestler." He's the one guy in my 26 years, watching my entire life world that I don't care what people think about me, that I get all nerdily invested in. I become all involved in it as if it were "real," whether he's feuding with a Shawn Michaels level guy or someone on a lower level. Any match with Triple H completely takes me out of that, which I loathe. I learned long, long ago that if they met in a match - singles, tag, elimination chamber, whatever - Jericho would not win. Not ever. This didn't become a case of "one day Jericho will get the upper hand on Triple H and it will be glorious," all it did was make me never want to see them wrestle one another in any permutation ever again because it's not FUN. There's no question whatsoever what the outcome will be, ever. Even Triple H fans can't find matches between the two of them interesting at this point, can they? The most important thing to point out about this conversation is how all 3 men laugh about it, loudly. All 3. Because they know what the business is, and they know that in the end, it's business. Not personal. But is it the best business decision? I just said I hate seeing them wrestle one another because there's never any doubt who the winner is. Which also means, I'm not shelling out any money at all to see that match, ever. I can't be alone in that sentiment. And the "personal"/backstage stuff - which none of us can comment on factually, whether we think they hate, love or are indifferent to one another - it's not exactly impossible for it to be a personal thing. It wouldn't be the first time by a stretch. Do I know that's what it is? No, of course not. But I don't know it's not either. All that video/comment does is show Jericho knows exactly how it is - whether or not he likes it is another thing all together and something we won't know unless he comes out and says so. ETA: It's just never been right for Jericho to beat HHH. Kinda frustrating for his fans, but then...so what? Punk struggles to beat Morrison, but I don't think Punk constantly complains. You do realize that sounds like you're essentially invalidating the opinion and preferences of his fans, right? So what? It's not so what to those of us who think of Jericho as their favorite. |
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Post by MGH on Oct 6, 2009 15:19:03 GMT -5
"But, but Triple was giving a fake, condescending laugh~!" ''He's burying Jericho by smiling!'' That's a great video, and pretty much proves the point it was trying to go against. Jericho doesn't care. HHH doesn't care. If circumstances were right and called for a Jericho win, Vince wouldn't care. It's just never been right for Jericho to beat HHH. Kinda frustrating for his fans, but then...so what? Punk struggles to beat Morrison, but I don't think Punk constantly complains. Remind me to just say "so what" next time WWE does something you don't care for. See how it comes off to you. |
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Post by wrestlecrapcrap on Oct 6, 2009 15:33:46 GMT -5
''He's burying Jericho by smiling!'' That's a great video, and pretty much proves the point it was trying to go against. Jericho doesn't care. HHH doesn't care. If circumstances were right and called for a Jericho win, Vince wouldn't care. It's just never been right for Jericho to beat HHH. Kinda frustrating for his fans, but then...so what? Punk struggles to beat Morrison, but I don't think Punk constantly complains. Remind me to just say "so what" next time WWE does something you don't care for. See how it comes off to you. They do looooooooads of things I don't care for. Around June time I was just as negative towards the company as anyone, especially when it came to the use of HHH as the top guy and continuing the Orton feud that had long since lost it's interest. But even then, I always knew that there was a bigger picture, and even though I hated it, my opinion didn't matter compared to the masses. I love Mr Kennedy. I was furious that the limo story had to stop, that Kennedy never got to be revealed as Vince's son and have Vince leave the company to him in a will before he main evented Wrestlemania. My god that would have been the best thing ever...but so what? It couldn't happen, I move on with my life. |
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Post by King Boo on Oct 6, 2009 15:40:38 GMT -5
Remind me to just say "so what" next time WWE does something you don't care for. See how it comes off to you. They do looooooooads of things I don't care for. Around June time I was just as negative towards the company as anyone, especially when it came to the use of HHH as the top guy and continuing the Orton feud that had long since lost it's interest. But even then, I always knew that there was a bigger picture, and even though I hated it, my opinion didn't matter compared to the masses. I love Mr Kennedy. I was furious that the limo story had to stop, that Kennedy never got to be revealed as Vince's son and have Vince leave the company to him in a will before he main evented Wrestlemania. My god that would have been the best thing ever...but so what? It couldn't happen, I move on with my life. Do you even realize how condescending you're coming off? First, we're in a thread about this topic so it's totally warranted to voice that opinion. Second, I don't sit and stew about this 27/7, 365. We all have our bug-a-boos about what we don't like? This is mine. I don't need someone telling me my opinion essentially doesn't matter, especially in an instance that specifically ASKED for it. Also, I at the very least, gave food for thought as to why maybe, it's not the best "business" decision. We don't even know that at one point in the numerous times HHH beat Jericho that maybe, just maybe, it wouldn't have worked well for it to turn out otherwise. This had nothing to do with the standard "we're the minority, get over it" argument. It had to do with how WE felt about the situation. THIS is why people get into a snit over that comeback. |
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Post by MGH on Oct 6, 2009 15:41:44 GMT -5
Remind me to just say "so what" next time WWE does something you don't care for. See how it comes off to you. They do looooooooads of things I don't care for. Around June time I was just as negative towards the company as anyone, especially when it came to the use of HHH as the top guy and continuing the Orton feud that had long since lost it's interest. But even then, I always knew that there was a bigger picture, and even though I hated it, my opinion didn't matter compared to the masses. I love Mr Kennedy. I was furious that the limo story had to stop, that Kennedy never got to be revealed as Vince's son and have Vince leave the company to him in a will before he main evented Wrestlemania. My god that would have been the best thing ever...but so what? It couldn't happen, I move on with my life. So basically you're pulling a Hiroshi. "Your opinion doesn't match the masses, it doesn't matter." Sorry, I never will grasp this ridiculous concept about your opinion not being important enough to be spoken rather it's against the grain of the "WWE Universe" or not. This is about 9,000 miles from being important to me in my life, but in the context of being a wrestling fan, yeah, I do care whether Jericho is forced to be made HHH's bitch YET AGAIN. It doesn't entertain me, it's always the sme, so I hate it. I could care less whether I'm following the leader or not. By your logic, why do any of us bother posting here at all? |
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Ben Wyatt
Crow T. Robot
Are You Gonna Go My Way?
I don't get it. At all. It's kind of a small horse, I mean what am I missing? Am I crazy?
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Post by Ben Wyatt on Oct 6, 2009 15:50:03 GMT -5
It doesnt matter to me.
As someone pointed out, Jericho has had a stellar WWF/E career.
I'll use an example from the past:
Hulk Hogan and Randy Savage.
Did Savage ever pin Hogan, 1 on 1? Nope.
In fact, Hogan went over 99% they were on opposing sides.
Now, did that taint Savage's career even a shred? Nope.
I just kinda see it that way. Sure, HHH "owns" Jericho, but that doesnt really mean anything in the big picture.
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Post by Next Level was WRONG on Oct 6, 2009 15:54:18 GMT -5
I quite like it, actually, because if you include HBK it becomes wrestlings version of Rock, Paper, Scissors.
HHH beats Jericho.
Michaels beats HHH.
Jericho beats Michaels.
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Post by MGH on Oct 6, 2009 16:08:49 GMT -5
It doesnt matter to me. As someone pointed out, Jericho has had a stellar WWF/E career. I'll use an example from the past: Hulk Hogan and Randy Savage. Did Savage ever pin Hogan, 1 on 1? Nope. In fact, Hogan went over 99% they were on opposing sides. Now, did that taint Savage's career even a shred? Nope. I just kinda see it that way. Sure, HHH "owns" Jericho, but that doesnt really mean anything in the big picture.No it doesn't, and I don't believe Roxie or myself are trying to argue that point for a second. It's just personal. We like Jericho, don't care for HHH (anymore in my case), and don't like seeing him lose everytime he gets matched up with Hunter. Did just being a fan of someone and having your own individual opinions somehow become a crime here over the last year or so? Sometimes it feels like it (that isn't directed at you slickness, btw). Like, if you aren't being overly snarky and arguing booking, pops, crowds and pushes you're speaking some foreign language. |
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Ben Wyatt
Crow T. Robot
Are You Gonna Go My Way?
I don't get it. At all. It's kind of a small horse, I mean what am I missing? Am I crazy?
Posts: 41,861
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Post by Ben Wyatt on Oct 6, 2009 16:52:28 GMT -5
It doesnt matter to me. As someone pointed out, Jericho has had a stellar WWF/E career. I'll use an example from the past: Hulk Hogan and Randy Savage. Did Savage ever pin Hogan, 1 on 1? Nope. In fact, Hogan went over 99% they were on opposing sides. Now, did that taint Savage's career even a shred? Nope. I just kinda see it that way. Sure, HHH "owns" Jericho, but that doesnt really mean anything in the big picture.No it doesn't, and I don't believe Roxie or myself are trying to argue that point for a second. It's just personal. We like Jericho, don't care for HHH (anymore in my case), and don't like seeing him lose everytime he gets matched up with Hunter. Did just being a fan of someone and having your own individual opinions somehow become a crime here over the last year or so? Sometimes it feels like it (that isn't directed at you slickness, btw). Like, if you aren't being overly snarky and arguing booking, pops, crowds and pushes you're speaking some foreign language. Nah man, I see your point completely I mean, Im a Miz fan.  |
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Allie Kitsune
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Always Feelin' Foxy.
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Post by Allie Kitsune on Oct 6, 2009 18:17:28 GMT -5
Did just being a fan of someone and having your own individual opinions somehow become a crime here over the last year or so? Sometimes it feels like it (that isn't directed at you slickness, btw). Like, if you aren't being overly snarky and arguing booking, pops, crowds and pushes you're speaking some foreign language. Having individual opinions are only a crime if said opinions involve disliking CM Punk, it seems. As far as Jericho, this whole thing honestly feels like it goes back farther than that. I still think it has roots way back to when Hunter was still dating Chyna, and Jericho potatoed her during a match. It seems like Hunter decided from that point on that he just plain resented Jericho, and it stuck even after HHH and Chyna broke up. Now that HHH has gone over Jericho so much that "that's just how it goes", I'm sure he no longer resents Jericho, and now that Jericho has had a successful career anyway, I'm sure Jericho doesn't really care either, but yes, just once, it'd be nice to see Jericho get one over on HHH, even if he never does again, afterward. |
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Psychoblue
Don Corleone
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Post by Psychoblue on Oct 6, 2009 18:22:08 GMT -5
Is it possible to be fans of both HHH and Jericho?
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Post by Crazy Diamond on Oct 6, 2009 18:27:07 GMT -5
Is it possible to be fans of both HHH and Jericho? HHH : Jericho :: oil : water It used to irritate me when Jericho would lose to him whether he was a heel or a face. I just hope they don't have JeriShow lose the bloody titles to DX. |
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Post by Bubble Lead on Oct 6, 2009 18:44:05 GMT -5
Is it possible to be fans of both HHH and Jericho? I used to be until HHH wore out his welcome and refused to evolve his character any. |
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Beast Army Ass
Hank Scorpio
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Post by Beast Army Ass on Oct 6, 2009 18:46:15 GMT -5
I mean, I GET why they did it last night. Pretty much the theme of Raw this year is that if you're a bad guy and in the main event, get ready to count the ceiling lights. After all, everyone watching has to be sent home happy, every week, no matter what. Really, that's what's making WWE stink for me nowadays. However, that's off topic.
ON topic though, I would just like to see Jericho pin HHH clean one of these days. Just straight up, codebreaker or lion tamer right in the middle of the ring. The problem is it's just not going to happen. And as others have said, I certainly don't want to see a match happening live that I can see how it ends a mile away. I like to be kept guessing. It makes me interested.
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Hiroshi Hase
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The Good Ol' Days
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Post by Hiroshi Hase on Oct 6, 2009 18:50:29 GMT -5
They do looooooooads of things I don't care for. Around June time I was just as negative towards the company as anyone, especially when it came to the use of HHH as the top guy and continuing the Orton feud that had long since lost it's interest. But even then, I always knew that there was a bigger picture, and even though I hated it, my opinion didn't matter compared to the masses. I love Mr Kennedy. I was furious that the limo story had to stop, that Kennedy never got to be revealed as Vince's son and have Vince leave the company to him in a will before he main evented Wrestlemania. My god that would have been the best thing ever...but so what? It couldn't happen, I move on with my life. So basically you're pulling a Hiroshi. "Your opinion doesn't match the masses, it doesn't matter." Sorry, I never will grasp this ridiculous concept about your opinion not being important enough to be spoken rather it's against the grain of the "WWE Universe" or not. This is about 9,000 miles from being important to me in my life, but in the context of being a wrestling fan, yeah, I do care whether Jericho is forced to be made HHH's bitch YET AGAIN. It doesn't entertain me, it's always the sme, so I hate it. I could care less whether I'm following the leader or not. By your logic, why do any of us bother posting here at all? Whoa, I didn't think I'd ever get such an honor, thanks for the comment. I suppose I should be upset here, right? Just wondering, have you got something against me? Seems that way. Anyways, it's true. And as I mentioned before, since you were kind enough to bring up my name in such a way, I include myself in that group. There are several things I'd love to see WWE do, but to them my opinion doesn't matter and I'm ok with that. I don't wallow in my anger over it as it's just a show to me, nothing more. As long as the masses have the final say and pay for the shows/attendance, my opinion doesn't mean much to Vince and that's just how it is. He's not going to lose sleep because a Jericho fan is upset that he never got the clean pin over HHH. As for the topic, Jericho did beat HHH once in 2002 to get a title shot against then WWE Champion Hulk Hogan. As for their matches, I never saw how Jericho was made to be HHH's bitch. More often than not, HHH would win usually by the skin of his teeth (Fully Loaded 2000). |
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spagett
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Great Job!
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Post by spagett on Oct 6, 2009 18:57:32 GMT -5
So basically you're pulling a Hiroshi. "Your opinion doesn't match the masses, it doesn't matter." Sorry, I never will grasp this ridiculous concept about your opinion not being important enough to be spoken rather it's against the grain of the "WWE Universe" or not. This is about 9,000 miles from being important to me in my life, but in the context of being a wrestling fan, yeah, I do care whether Jericho is forced to be made HHH's bitch YET AGAIN. It doesn't entertain me, it's always the sme, so I hate it. I could care less whether I'm following the leader or not. By your logic, why do any of us bother posting here at all? Whoa, I didn't think I'd ever get such an honor, thanks for the comment. I suppose I should be upset here, right? Anyways, it's true. And as I mentioned before, since you were kind enough to bring up my name in such a way, I include myself in that group. There are several things I'd love to see WWE do, but to them my opinion doesn't matter and I'm ok with that. I don't wallow in my anger over it as it's just a show to me, nothing more. As long as the masses have the final say and pay for the shows/attendance, my opinion doesn't mean much to Vince and that's just how it is. He's not going to lose sleep because a Jericho fan is upset that he never got the clean pin over HHH. As for the topic, Jericho did beat HHH once in 2002 to get a title shot against then WWE Champion Hulk Hogan. As for their matches, I never saw how Jericho was made to be HHH's bitch. More often than not, HHH would win usually by the skin of his teeth (Fully Loaded 2000). So one Jericho win in about 11 matches makes it even? It's not just in the actual matches though, it happens almost every time they are in the same segment, Jericho looks either stupid if he is the heel or weak if he is the face. Like others have said I love Jericho and hate Triple H so I am going to be biased and as a wrestling fan there isn't anything wrong than that. Just once I would love to see Jericho gain a big time win over HHH. We have been through this many times about your view that peoples opinions don't count if different to the masses so I won't drag it up again but I will say once again that I disagree with you. |
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Hiroshi Hase
Patti Mayonnaise
The Good Ol' Days
Posts: 30,755
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Post by Hiroshi Hase on Oct 6, 2009 19:00:57 GMT -5
Whoa, I didn't think I'd ever get such an honor, thanks for the comment. I suppose I should be upset here, right? Anyways, it's true. And as I mentioned before, since you were kind enough to bring up my name in such a way, I include myself in that group. There are several things I'd love to see WWE do, but to them my opinion doesn't matter and I'm ok with that. I don't wallow in my anger over it as it's just a show to me, nothing more. As long as the masses have the final say and pay for the shows/attendance, my opinion doesn't mean much to Vince and that's just how it is. He's not going to lose sleep because a Jericho fan is upset that he never got the clean pin over HHH. As for the topic, Jericho did beat HHH once in 2002 to get a title shot against then WWE Champion Hulk Hogan. As for their matches, I never saw how Jericho was made to be HHH's bitch. More often than not, HHH would win usually by the skin of his teeth (Fully Loaded 2000). So one Jericho win in about 11 matches makes it even? It's not just in the actual matches though, it happens almost every time they are in the same segment, Jericho looks either stupid if he is the heel or weak if he is the face. Like others have said I love Jericho and hate Triple H so I am going to be biased and as a wrestling fan there isn't anything wrong than that. Just once I would love to see Jericho gain a big time win over HHH. We have been through this many times about your view that peoples opinions don't count if different to the masses so I won't drag it up again but I will say once again that I disagree with you. Does it have to be even? I personally don't care if two guys have to get the same amount of wins over each other in some type of even-steven booking. I like both men and don't see anything wrong with their matches. I do agree with the feud prior to WM18, before or after that I didn't see anything wrong. To each his own. That's perfectly fine if you disagree with me, and I disagree with you. That's cool with me. Everyone has their viewpoints. |
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Post by Bubble Lead on Oct 6, 2009 19:13:53 GMT -5
It doesnt have to be even. Not even close. It just shouldn't be completely predictable.
You say why does it need to be even, I counter with why does Triple H need to win every single time? Why can there not be at least some doubt as to the outcome?
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