H-Fist
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 6,485
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Post by H-Fist on May 30, 2009 0:34:16 GMT -5
I hate to think a Japanese macaque was being hurt (that's the kind of monkey). The macaques - females, anyway - are pretty damn smart, even by monkey standards. They seem more capable of abstract thought ("If I do this, then this may result.") than most species and are active teachers of acquired skills ("Hey you. Come over here and look at what I'm doing. Do it. It works better.") Imo was a famous (among primatologists) Japanese macaque because, when scientists tried to lure the macaques to the beach for observation (easier than in trees), they used grains and sweet potatoes scattered on the sand. Imo took a handful of the grain and tossed them into the water. She realized that the sand would sink and the clean grain would float. Then she taught the other females and the young how to clean their food.
That is the level of intelligence of the animal that was burned with a firecracker (let alone kept as a pet) and given poison (alcohol). I have real big problems with monkeys as pets. Add in bs like this...I really would like to see something really clear happen. Shingo's most recent blog apology reminds me too much of the Giambi steroid apology, where he apologized but wouldn't say for what. Give me something, folks, or you're losing at least $75 over Labor Day weekend in Chicago.
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Joekishi
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,490
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Post by Joekishi on May 30, 2009 2:15:34 GMT -5
Yeah don't ever like seeing pictures of abuse, and these assholes deserve to be blackballed, they'll probably have a future on Japanese Pop TV doing stupid stunts
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Mecca
Wade Wilson
Posts: 25,142
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Post by Mecca on May 30, 2009 5:32:44 GMT -5
I will say one thing about this, is abusing animals wrong yes. But this thread at this point has spun so many different ways reading through it.
Here is my one thought on the whole morals thing and all of that, if you want a hobby that is line with good morals, or your morals and values that has fine upstanding people. You probably need to replace wrestling with something else.
It is not a high class world full of good people.
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bob
Backup Wench
The "other" Bob. FOC COURSE!
started the Madness Wars, Proudly the #1 Nana Hater on FAN
Posts: 80,353
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Post by bob on May 30, 2009 6:06:12 GMT -5
WOW
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biafra
El Dandy
Biafra Who?
Posts: 7,617
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Post by biafra on May 30, 2009 6:36:34 GMT -5
I will say one thing about this, is abusing animals wrong yes. But this thread at this point has spun so many different ways reading through it. Here is my one thought on the whole morals thing and all of that, if you want a hobby that is line with good morals, or your morals and values that has fine upstanding people. You probably need to replace wrestling with something else. It is not a high class world full of good people. The wrestlers choose to do what they do; this animal did not. If wrestling companies were rounding up potential athletes by gunpoint and forcing them in steel cages you'd have a point.
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Mozenrath
FANatic
Foppery and Whim
Speedy Speed Boy
Posts: 121,832
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Post by Mozenrath on May 30, 2009 8:43:27 GMT -5
I hate to think a Japanese macaque was being hurt (that's the kind of monkey). The macaques - females, anyway - are pretty damn smart, even by monkey standards. They seem more capable of abstract thought ("If I do this, then this may result.") than most species and are active teachers of acquired skills ("Hey you. Come over here and look at what I'm doing. Do it. It works better.") Imo was a famous (among primatologists) Japanese macaque because, when scientists tried to lure the macaques to the beach for observation (easier than in trees), they used grains and sweet potatoes scattered on the sand. Imo took a handful of the grain and tossed them into the water. She realized that the sand would sink and the clean grain would float. Then she taught the other females and the young how to clean their food. That is the level of intelligence of the animal that was burned with a firecracker (let alone kept as a pet) and given poison (alcohol). I have real big problems with monkeys as pets. Add in bs like this...I really would like to see something really clear happen. Shingo's most recent blog apology reminds me too much of the Giambi steroid apology, where he apologized but wouldn't say for what. Give me something, folks, or you're losing at least $75 over Labor Day weekend in Chicago. I'm not a fan of pet monkeys, either. Intelligence is part of it, but more the issue is that a person very, very rarely would have the resources to provide a good environment for them. Inadequate food, exercise, and social interaction are virtually a certainty in most pet situations for them. I don't really blame Shingo from what I understand thus far. He is the one grabbing the monkey, probably overly roughly to be sure, but if the story is correct, he was probably pretty intimidated by a monkey that had just gone on a rampage. That would imply to me the monkey was probably pretty stressed in that environment, so maybe some good came of this, in that he's been relocated. I still want those responsible exposed and punished, but I am glad some good came out of a terrible situation.
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Mecca
Wade Wilson
Posts: 25,142
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Post by Mecca on May 30, 2009 13:48:49 GMT -5
I will say one thing about this, is abusing animals wrong yes. But this thread at this point has spun so many different ways reading through it. Here is my one thought on the whole morals thing and all of that, if you want a hobby that is line with good morals, or your morals and values that has fine upstanding people. You probably need to replace wrestling with something else. It is not a high class world full of good people. The wrestlers choose to do what they do; this animal did not. If wrestling companies were rounding up potential athletes by gunpoint and forcing them in steel cages you'd have a point. That's not exactly what I meant, what I meant is the wrestlers are in in alot of cases not good people. The wrestling industry is full of cruel people with giant issues. Look at all the ridiculous stories that come out of wrestling, my simple point was if you have a high moral standard and want your entertainment to follow that wrestling is never going to meet that standard just based on the majority of people in it. We always talk about things like wrestlers lacking professionalism or maturity or how could they do this or that etc. Well when you think about it they're grown men that play fight in their underwear for a living, who could imagine they wouldn't exactly be well adjusted.
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Starlight Starbright
Don Corleone
Suffers From Macho Madness.
?Literary, intelligent, yet capable of great savagery. A terrifying genius.?
Posts: 1,969
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Post by Starlight Starbright on May 30, 2009 15:12:10 GMT -5
The wrestlers choose to do what they do; this animal did not. If wrestling companies were rounding up potential athletes by gunpoint and forcing them in steel cages you'd have a point. That's not exactly what I meant, what I meant is the wrestlers are in in alot of cases not good people. The wrestling industry is full of cruel people with giant issues. Look at all the ridiculous stories that come out of wrestling, my simple point was if you have a high moral standard and want your entertainment to follow that wrestling is never going to meet that standard just based on the majority of people in it. We always talk about things like wrestlers lacking professionalism or maturity or how could they do this or that etc. Well when you think about it they're grown men that play fight in their underwear for a living, who could imagine they wouldn't exactly be well adjusted. Wow, that's an unfair assessment of wrestlers. That's akin to the way the mainstream media views them. Wrestlers are people too. Edit: "only cavemen with bad lives wrestle". Ridiculous. Wrestling isn't puppies and roses but still. ..to say they're not "well adjusted" because they "play fight in their underwear" is really messed up. People who are not well adjusted are all over the place, not just in wrestling - in other forms of entertainment and in normal everyday life. That's really f'ed to say that about wrestlers and speaks volumes to the prejudices against wrestlers and against people who aren't well adjusted, period.
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biafra
El Dandy
Biafra Who?
Posts: 7,617
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Post by biafra on May 30, 2009 15:35:20 GMT -5
The wrestlers choose to do what they do; this animal did not. If wrestling companies were rounding up potential athletes by gunpoint and forcing them in steel cages you'd have a point. That's not exactly what I meant, what I meant is the wrestlers are in in alot of cases not good people. The wrestling industry is full of cruel people with giant issues. Look at all the ridiculous stories that come out of wrestling, my simple point was if you have a high moral standard and want your entertainment to follow that wrestling is never going to meet that standard just based on the majority of people in it. We always talk about things like wrestlers lacking professionalism or maturity or how could they do this or that etc. Well when you think about it they're grown men that play fight in their underwear for a living, who could imagine they wouldn't exactly be well adjusted. People draw their own lines as far as what behavior they can't and cannot support. I mean..if I were not support institution with any bad people I would....not be able to buy anything or have any form of entertainment whatsoever. Besides, I don't see not supporting Dragon Gate until some things are cleared up as "high moral standard." It's MY standard, to be sure...but like I've said before I have no issue with those who have no problem supporting them. I respect other people's right to draw moral lines where they feel the need to (to an extent..there are SOME absolute moral/immoral behaviors) and I retain the right to do the same.
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