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Post by angryfan on Nov 20, 2009 8:23:54 GMT -5
It was worse... I went to a midnight showing for the hell of it, I'm glad I did. The movie broke down twice, and it was awesome. There was a girl that was crying, the place was going nutz an then when the movie came back on, and it was a minute longer into the movie, all these crazy girls started shouting REWIND IT!! When we walked out of the theatre we got free passes, so I would say it was worth it. I picture this scene in the projection booth. The guy running the projector has a buddy with him to keep him company. Projectionist: Dude, check this out. (hits the stop button on the projecter) Crowd in theater: OH NOES! *much schreaching and wailing commences* Projectionists's friend: Damn, man, that's kinda mean. P: Nah, but this is. (Projectionist sets the movie to resume one minute later in the film and turns the projecter on) Crowd: (in unison) Noooooooooooooooooo! PB: Damn, man, they're getting restless. Maybe we let them watch their movie now? P: Hell no. I know how to really set them off. PB: How's that? P: Like this. (turns off film, turns up light and leans out of booth) I have an announcement! (crowd turns toward the sound looking angry) P: THEY BOTH SUCK! (opens jacket to reveal Team Dracula shirt) and they don't f***ing sparkle! (flashes the dobule bird and ducks back into the booth as the crowd starts to throw chairs and shreik) PB: Now what do we do? P: Now? Now, we run.
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biafra
El Dandy
Biafra Who?
Posts: 7,617
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Post by biafra on Nov 20, 2009 8:48:56 GMT -5
No one cares what HATERS think!!!
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Post by ilovemaria on Nov 20, 2009 9:21:07 GMT -5
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Post by ♥ Bunnyslinger ♥ on Nov 20, 2009 9:43:26 GMT -5
Closing my eyes for the haters in here.
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Paul
Vegeta
Posts: 9,342
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Post by Paul on Nov 20, 2009 10:00:09 GMT -5
Twilight is like a bad Anne Rice Vampire book.. in other words, like pretty much all the Anne Rice Vampire books.
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Post by Friday Night SmackOwn on Nov 20, 2009 10:03:55 GMT -5
The Twilight crap is like a poorly written fan-fic.
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Post by Gopher Mod on Nov 20, 2009 10:11:31 GMT -5
Here's a quick rundown of the Tomato-meter via Rotten Tomatoes:
Twilight- 49% fresh, 193 ratings New Moon- 29% fresh, 118 ratings
Yeah, critics aren't too happy with this. Wish that more people actually read into this instead of watching something that could just suck away their money ala vacuums.
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Post by HMARK Center on Nov 20, 2009 10:18:39 GMT -5
I was actually discussing the whole "negative influence on young women" thing with my parents yesterday (we're all teachers, and I teach a lot of girls ages 6-11).
My mother pointed something out; these books are basically Harlequin (no pun on Mrs. Quinn from Batman) romance novels just taken to the Nth degree in terms of popularity.
My godmother, when she goes to the beach during the summer, often reads those trashy books, and they include many of the things we've mentioned here: controlling male figures, submissive and weak female leads who fall head over heels for a man they don't even know/are threatened by, and characters who are changed around or depicted a certain way just to suit an author's whims and fancies, instead of for true story telling purposes.
But, really, if you asked my godmother to critically review those books, she'd admit that they're kind of trashy, and that they're nothing but escapist fare for her, the same way many of us guys like to watch silly action flicks or comedies with toilet/crotch humor, etc.
However, and this is something I've talked about here before, I raised the point that it's weird to me how the escapist stories men get into still tend to (not always, obviously) have positive messages, yet many of the stories women get into like that really don't seem to.
Men tend to like their escapist stories to involve ordinary people who are thrust into extraordinary circumstances, who must bear heavy responsibilities and often have to either sacrifice something or make a tough personal choice that usually involves being selfless. Most male escapist heroes, from Luke Skywalker to John McClain, display these qualities.
It probably has to do with gender role psychology, given how men don't always get to live out their perceived and assumed role as "protectors" and whatnot, and thus want to vicariously live it through movies/books/etc., but that's going into a deep place I'm not sure we can hope to wade through.
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Post by BayleyTiffyCodyCenaJudyHopps on Nov 20, 2009 10:29:01 GMT -5
I was actually discussing the whole "negative influence on young women" thing with my parents yesterday (we're all teachers, and I teach a lot of girls ages 6-11). My mother pointed something out; these books are basically Harlequin (no pun on Mrs. Quinn from Batman) romance novels just taken to the Nth degree in terms of popularity. My godmother, when she goes to the beach during the summer, often reads those trashy books, and they include many of the things we've mentioned here: controlling male figures, submissive and weak female leads who fall head over heels for a man they don't even know/are threatened by, and characters who are changed around or depicted a certain way just to suit an author's whims and fancies, instead of for true story telling purposes. But, really, if you asked my godmother to critically review those books, she'd admit that they're kind of trashy, and that they're nothing but escapist fare for her, the same way many of us guys like to watch silly action flicks or comedies with toilet/crotch humor, etc. However, and this is something I've talked about here before, I raised the point that it's weird to me how the escapist stories men get into still tend to (not always, obviously) have positive messages, yet many of the stories women get into like that really don't seem to. Men tend to like their escapist stories to involve ordinary people who are thrust into extraordinary circumstances, who must bear heavy responsibilities and often have to either sacrifice something or make a tough personal choice that usually involves being selfless. Most male escapist heroes, from Luke Skywalker to John McClain, display these qualities. It probably has to do with gender role psychology, given how men don't always get to live out their perceived and assumed role as "protectors" and whatnot, and thus want to vicariously live it through movies/books/etc., but that's going into a deep place I'm not sure we can hope to wade through. I seriously doubt that self-sacrifice and responsibility are the sole domain of the male escapist fantasy, and I don't think that Twilight is the prime example of female escapism. To me it just sounds like a dumb harmless fantasy, which is why I can understand its mass following, but not its equally obsessive backlash. If some people have already decided that Twilight's not their cup of tea, why should they bother debating its fans on the "merits" of enjoying it (which, like all art, is purely subjective)? Like with many things in life, there's a lot more to gain with people focusing on what makes them happy than what doesn't.
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Post by BayleyTiffyCodyCenaJudyHopps on Nov 20, 2009 10:36:51 GMT -5
That said, that seems to BE the common attitude to take towards males. And we have enough males accepting it as fact now that THEY DO NOT WANT TO BE MALE. Sometimes I get the feeling we have an ever-growing, higher and higher number of such rejecting masculinity and desiring (and actively attempting) to become female. Uhh...what?
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biafra
El Dandy
Biafra Who?
Posts: 7,617
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Post by biafra on Nov 20, 2009 10:36:53 GMT -5
I was actually discussing the whole "negative influence on young women" thing with my parents yesterday (we're all teachers, and I teach a lot of girls ages 6-11). My mother pointed something out; these books are basically Harlequin (no pun on Mrs. Quinn from Batman) romance novels just taken to the Nth degree in terms of popularity. My godmother, when she goes to the beach during the summer, often reads those trashy books, and they include many of the things we've mentioned here: controlling male figures, submissive and weak female leads who fall head over heels for a man they don't even know/are threatened by, and characters who are changed around or depicted a certain way just to suit an author's whims and fancies, instead of for true story telling purposes. But, really, if you asked my godmother to critically review those books, she'd admit that they're kind of trashy, and that they're nothing but escapist fare for her, the same way many of us guys like to watch silly action flicks or comedies with toilet/crotch humor, etc. However, and this is something I've talked about here before, I raised the point that it's weird to me how the escapist stories men get into still tend to (not always, obviously) have positive messages, yet many of the stories women get into like that really don't seem to. Men tend to like their escapist stories to involve ordinary people who are thrust into extraordinary circumstances, who must bear heavy responsibilities and often have to either sacrifice something or make a tough personal choice that usually involves being selfless. Most male escapist heroes, from Luke Skywalker to John McClain, display these qualities. It probably has to do with gender role psychology, given how men don't always get to live out their perceived and assumed role as "protectors" and whatnot, and thus want to vicariously live it through movies/books/etc., but that's going into a deep place I'm not sure we can hope to wade through. I seriously doubt that self-sacrifice and responsibility are the sole domain of the male escapist fantasy, and I don't think that Twilight is the prime example of female escapism. To me it just sounds like a dumb harmless fantasy, which is why I can understand its mass following, but not its equally obsessive backlash. If some people have already decided that Twilight's not their cup of tea, why should they bother debating its fans on the "merits" of enjoying it (which, like all art, is purely subjective)? Like with many things in life, there's a lot more to gain with people focusing on what makes them happy than what doesn't. I agree. Gimmick aside I've never read a book of the series or seen a movie...and everything else is easy enough to ignore. I'll never be able to get my head around why some people ridicule others or actually get worked up about what other people find entertaining. Especially here, on a board dedicated to the fake sport of grown men pretending to fight. Like we have a right to judge.
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Post by HMARK Center on Nov 20, 2009 10:37:30 GMT -5
I was actually discussing the whole "negative influence on young women" thing with my parents yesterday (we're all teachers, and I teach a lot of girls ages 6-11). My mother pointed something out; these books are basically Harlequin (no pun on Mrs. Quinn from Batman) romance novels just taken to the Nth degree in terms of popularity. My godmother, when she goes to the beach during the summer, often reads those trashy books, and they include many of the things we've mentioned here: controlling male figures, submissive and weak female leads who fall head over heels for a man they don't even know/are threatened by, and characters who are changed around or depicted a certain way just to suit an author's whims and fancies, instead of for true story telling purposes. But, really, if you asked my godmother to critically review those books, she'd admit that they're kind of trashy, and that they're nothing but escapist fare for her, the same way many of us guys like to watch silly action flicks or comedies with toilet/crotch humor, etc. However, and this is something I've talked about here before, I raised the point that it's weird to me how the escapist stories men get into still tend to (not always, obviously) have positive messages, yet many of the stories women get into like that really don't seem to. Men tend to like their escapist stories to involve ordinary people who are thrust into extraordinary circumstances, who must bear heavy responsibilities and often have to either sacrifice something or make a tough personal choice that usually involves being selfless. Most male escapist heroes, from Luke Skywalker to John McClain, display these qualities. It probably has to do with gender role psychology, given how men don't always get to live out their perceived and assumed role as "protectors" and whatnot, and thus want to vicariously live it through movies/books/etc., but that's going into a deep place I'm not sure we can hope to wade through. I seriously doubt that self-sacrifice and responsibility are the sole domain of the male escapist fantasy, and I don't think that Twilight is the prime example of female escapism. To me it just sounds like a dumb harmless fantasy, which is why I can understand its mass following, but not its equally obsessive backlash. If some people have already decided that Twilight's not their cup of tea, why should they bother debating its fans on the "merits" of enjoying it (which, like all art, is purely subjective)? Like with many things in life, there's a lot more to gain with people focusing on what makes them happy than what doesn't. No, you're right it's not the sole realm of male-centric fantasy, but it's a trend I've noticed and have read some studies about, i.e. comparing those types of flicks with stuff like Twilight and Sex in the City, which have served lately as the grandest example of "female escapism". I continue to debate about it, because I don't like the message the stories give off, and find it disconcerting when my aunt, for example, allows my 9 year old little cousin to get completely into it without realizing a lot of the messages that are getting across to her. I honestly and truly do find those messages harmful and destructive, so, no, I'm not part of the "OMG VAMPIRES DON'T SPARKLE!" faction.
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Post by Allison Reynolds on Nov 20, 2009 10:38:05 GMT -5
The hate on this movie series is overwhelming, for imo many unjustifiable reasons.
Yes the story isn't very good, but to hate it, because other people in different/certain targeted demographics enjoy it? What?
If it isn't your cup of tea, leave it alone, I'd say.
I haven't watched any of the movies, so this isn't some crazy twilight fan defending it or anything.
*edit: I only skimmed through the thread, so this isn't targeted at anyone in particular.
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Post by angryfan on Nov 20, 2009 10:38:19 GMT -5
I was actually discussing the whole "negative influence on young women" thing with my parents yesterday (we're all teachers, and I teach a lot of girls ages 6-11). My mother pointed something out; these books are basically Harlequin (no pun on Mrs. Quinn from Batman) romance novels just taken to the Nth degree in terms of popularity. My godmother, when she goes to the beach during the summer, often reads those trashy books, and they include many of the things we've mentioned here: controlling male figures, submissive and weak female leads who fall head over heels for a man they don't even know/are threatened by, and characters who are changed around or depicted a certain way just to suit an author's whims and fancies, instead of for true story telling purposes. But, really, if you asked my godmother to critically review those books, she'd admit that they're kind of trashy, and that they're nothing but escapist fare for her, the same way many of us guys like to watch silly action flicks or comedies with toilet/crotch humor, etc. However, and this is something I've talked about here before, I raised the point that it's weird to me how the escapist stories men get into still tend to (not always, obviously) have positive messages, yet many of the stories women get into like that really don't seem to. Men tend to like their escapist stories to involve ordinary people who are thrust into extraordinary circumstances, who must bear heavy responsibilities and often have to either sacrifice something or make a tough personal choice that usually involves being selfless. Most male escapist heroes, from Luke Skywalker to John McClain, display these qualities. It probably has to do with gender role psychology, given how men don't always get to live out their perceived and assumed role as "protectors" and whatnot, and thus want to vicariously live it through movies/books/etc., but that's going into a deep place I'm not sure we can hope to wade through. TO go into the gender disparity you mentioned, let me throw this in. A male hero in an escapist medium for men is always deeply flawed. Generally the man is divorced or in a marraige with major problems, has some kind of substance dependency, or overuse issue, struggles with both authority and responsibility, and what not. Yet, despite this, the flawed character has something inside them that says, "I want to fix this situation, this problem, consequences be damned". This is true in literature as well as cinema. The ending of the film or book will be the heroic ending expected, but generally with some loss eitehr taking place or having taken place, and the character reflecting on the cost of victory. A hero or heroine in media geared to women is nearly always a combination of a victim of circumstance and a Mary Sue who just knows what to do at all times. He or she will have all the answers, will display few flaws if any, and the ending will be heroic, as with those geared towards males, but without any consequence. Truthfully the only "geared to women" heroine I can think of that fits more into the male genre is Anita Blake. It's another vampire themed book, with the series having started back in the early 90's. She triumphs in the end, and does tend to fall for dudes a lot, but generally she is more reflective on any loss that takes place and the consequence is both noted and thought about throughout. I think that's what hooked me is that the characters are, while "supernatural" and thus a bit Mary Sueish in their ability to do things, for the most part deeply flawed and imperfect beings. They're not perfect, they may not have all the answers, and frequently people get dead, and it is treated like it matters. With Twilight, it's like Disney-ized Vampires where everything is happy and pretty.
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Post by ♥ Bunnyslinger ♥ on Nov 20, 2009 10:41:59 GMT -5
I was actually discussing the whole "negative influence on young women" thing with my parents yesterday (we're all teachers, and I teach a lot of girls ages 6-11). My mother pointed something out; these books are basically Harlequin (no pun on Mrs. Quinn from Batman) romance novels just taken to the Nth degree in terms of popularity. My godmother, when she goes to the beach during the summer, often reads those trashy books, and they include many of the things we've mentioned here: controlling male figures, submissive and weak female leads who fall head over heels for a man they don't even know/are threatened by, and characters who are changed around or depicted a certain way just to suit an author's whims and fancies, instead of for true story telling purposes. But, really, if you asked my godmother to critically review those books, she'd admit that they're kind of trashy, and that they're nothing but escapist fare for her, the same way many of us guys like to watch silly action flicks or comedies with toilet/crotch humor, etc. However, and this is something I've talked about here before, I raised the point that it's weird to me how the escapist stories men get into still tend to (not always, obviously) have positive messages, yet many of the stories women get into like that really don't seem to. Men tend to like their escapist stories to involve ordinary people who are thrust into extraordinary circumstances, who must bear heavy responsibilities and often have to either sacrifice something or make a tough personal choice that usually involves being selfless. Most male escapist heroes, from Luke Skywalker to John McClain, display these qualities. It probably has to do with gender role psychology, given how men don't always get to live out their perceived and assumed role as "protectors" and whatnot, and thus want to vicariously live it through movies/books/etc., but that's going into a deep place I'm not sure we can hope to wade through. TO go into the gender disparity you mentioned, let me throw this in. A male hero in an escapist medium for men is always deeply flawed. Generally the man is divorced or in a marraige with major problems, has some kind of substance dependency, or overuse issue, struggles with both authority and responsibility, and what not. Yet, despite this, the flawed character has something inside them that says, "I want to fix this situation, this problem, consequences be damned". This is true in literature as well as cinema. The ending of the film or book will be the heroic ending expected, but generally with some loss eitehr taking place or having taken place, and the character reflecting on the cost of victory. A hero or heroine in media geared to women is nearly always a combination of a victim of circumstance and a Mary Sue who just knows what to do at all times. He or she will have all the answers, will display few flaws if any, and the ending will be heroic, as with those geared towards males, but without any consequence. Truthfully the only "geared to women" heroine I can think of that fits more into the male genre is Anita Blake. It's another vampire themed book, with the series having started back in the early 90's. She triumphs in the end, and does tend to fall for dudes a lot, but generally she is more reflective on any loss that takes place and the consequence is both noted and thought about throughout. I think that's what hooked me is that the characters are, while "supernatural" and thus a bit Mary Sueish in their ability to do things, for the most part deeply flawed and imperfect beings. They're not perfect, they may not have all the answers, and frequently people get dead, and it is treated like it matters. With Twilight, it's like Disney-ized Vampires where everything is happy and pretty. Well shaa pfft err.. i could like make points and be logistimagistical and stuff, you say what you want, Edward's perfect, not my fault you can't handle it. He'll find me one day.
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Post by HMARK Center on Nov 20, 2009 10:42:08 GMT -5
Hah, I'd include Mrs. Frisby, of The Secret of NIMH. AWESOME heroine.
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Post by tap on Nov 20, 2009 10:46:56 GMT -5
It's funny how people who say the books/films send a bad message to young girls automatically when saying this basically equate young girls with being too stupid to read through any message the books/films indeed may offer. Way to build people up by tearing them down!
I haven't read the books but I'm familiar enough with them because of a friend of mine. And I've actually seen Twilight. And I didn't like it, but not because of its plot (which more or less so many other films have done... vampires are but window dressing for a clichéd love story). I hated Twilight because it was a poorly made movie. The editing was choppy for no reason, there was a ridiculous use of hand-held, the CG didn't look great, the action scenes were robbed of any possible tension, etc., etc. I actually want to see New Moon out of morbid curiosity, but I know I'm not going to enjoy it.
Twilight-mania is a fad. It will pass. Twilight hate is at the point where it is more annoying than Twilight love. Meyer can do whatever she wants in her stories because they're her stories. It just so happened that a lot of people like her stories (for whatever reason, but you could say that of any author really). I don't really care either way. BUT PEOPLE ARE ENJOYING THINGS, BLEARGH!
Like, I find American football to be a useless sport and I know there are more people who enjoy football than Twilight (just look at the ratings), but I don't break out in hate hives every Superbowl.
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Post by BayleyTiffyCodyCenaJudyHopps on Nov 20, 2009 10:47:50 GMT -5
Hah, I'd include Mrs. Frisby, of The Secret of NIMH. AWESOME heroine. Still love that movie. But really, I can't say that female-centric fiction has a monopoly on bad messages to people. I like a good brainless action movie with a bad-assed male lead, but a lot of the messages in those movies boil down to "kick ass or be kicked", a philosophy that can ruin one's day if they took it too literally. Harmful morals aren't gender-exclusive by any means.
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The Line
Patti Mayonnaise
Real Name: Bumkiss. Stanley Bumkiss.
Peanut Butter & JAAAAAMMMM!
Posts: 36,698
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Post by The Line on Nov 20, 2009 11:01:08 GMT -5
I seriously doubt that self-sacrifice and responsibility are the sole domain of the male escapist fantasy, and I don't think that Twilight is the prime example of female escapism. To me it just sounds like a dumb harmless fantasy, which is why I can understand its mass following, but not its equally obsessive backlash. If some people have already decided that Twilight's not their cup of tea, why should they bother debating its fans on the "merits" of enjoying it (which, like all art, is purely subjective)? Like with many things in life, there's a lot more to gain with people focusing on what makes them happy than what doesn't. I agree. Gimmick aside I've never read a book of the series or seen a movie...and everything else is easy enough to ignore. I'll never be able to get my head around why some people ridicule others or actually get worked up about what other people find entertaining. Especially here, on a board dedicated to the fake sport of grown men pretending to fight. Like we have a right to judge. Dang, took the words out of my mouth. I have a few friends who enjoy twilight quite a bit. I playfully joke around with them, but their enjoyment of it is purely harmless compared to my former wrestling fandom. Everybody likes at least one thing that other people who don't like it/get it could easily make fun of. Whether it be a book, movie, band, whatever.
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Post by HMARK Center on Nov 20, 2009 11:01:54 GMT -5
It's funny how people who say the books/films send a bad message to young girls automatically when saying this basically equate young girls with being too stupid to read through any message the books/films indeed may offer. Way to build people up by tearing them down! I haven't read the books but I'm familiar enough with them because of a friend of mine. And I've actually seen Twilight. And I didn't like it, but not because of its plot (which more or less so many other films have done... vampires are but window dressing for a clichéd love story). I hated Twilight because it was a poorly made movie. The editing was choppy for no reason, there was a ridiculous use of hand-held, the CG didn't look great, the action scenes were robbed of any possible tension, etc., etc. I actually want to see New Moon out of morbid curiosity, but I know I'm not going to enjoy it. Twilight-mania is a fad. It will pass. Twilight hate is at the point where it is more annoying than Twilight love. Meyer can do whatever she wants in her stories because they're her stories. It just so happened that a lot of people like her stories (for whatever reason, but you could say that of any author really). I don't really care either way. BUT PEOPLE ARE ENJOYING THINGS, BLEARGH! Like, I find American football to be a useless sport and I know there are more people who enjoy football than Twilight (just look at the ratings), but I don't break out in hate hives every Superbowl. I'm talking about 7-10 year old girls. You don't need to be "stupid" to be impressionable.
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