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Post by toddpolt on Nov 19, 2009 2:55:00 GMT -5
The sheer stupidity of Marvel Zombies cancels that out. You mean it....cannibalizes on itself?
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Post by Joe Neglia on Nov 19, 2009 3:15:00 GMT -5
The Ventriloquist. I can't believe this character wasn't some one-shot 1960s nobody instead of the recurring 80s/90s/2000s villain he is. Even Kite-Man, the Calculator and Calendar Man are more well-thought out.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Nov 19, 2009 3:18:59 GMT -5
While I agree that he's never really had a shining moment, I think there's an interesting kernel of an idea with Ventriloquist and Scareface that if in the right context could be a good story. Maybe nothing ground-breaking or a huge arc or anything.. but something.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Nov 19, 2009 3:21:35 GMT -5
I don't know that there's any villain I out and out hate. I think most characters you can do something with.. I guess closest I've come is either Carnage after his first storyline and really every symbiote post Venom/ the villains that were created during the Clone Saga-- Spidercide, revamped Jackal et al.. Kaine was eh, kinda ok, but still not great.. just that whole vein of taking an overdone idea and continuing to spin it ad nauseam.
Even then, if they were written right, could be interesting.
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Post by Joe Neglia on Nov 19, 2009 3:28:07 GMT -5
I don't know that there's any villain I out and out hate. I think most characters you can do something with.. I guess closest I've come is either Carnage after his first storyline and really every symbiote post Venom/ the villains that were created during the Clone Saga-- Spidercide, revamped Jackal et al.. Kaine was eh, kinda ok, but still not great.. just that whole vein of taking an overdone idea and continuing to spin it ad nauseam. Even then, if they were written right, could be interesting. Almost any villain (or hero for that matter) could be interesting in the right hands. Hell, look at all the jagoffs over the years that went from jokes to complete badasses in the right hands - Catman over at DC is a fairly recent example. Or Mr. Fear over at Marvel. 40 years as a 2nd rate Scarecrow wannabe and Brubaker turned him into an awesome bastard.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Nov 19, 2009 3:29:33 GMT -5
This is what I'm saying. But again we're on the same side of the fence of this one, as we both love the C and D list characters.
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Post by Kroot bringing Justice on Nov 19, 2009 4:02:04 GMT -5
Another one, Scarecrow. I'm hoping in Blackest Night that something happens to make him important, but right now he is honestly the worst and most redundant villain in Bats rouge gallery.
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Post by Friday Night SmackOwn on Nov 19, 2009 11:08:10 GMT -5
F--ing Carnage. What marketing genius came up with that? "Hey Bob, now that Venom's going to be an anti-hero, let's create an evil version of him that kills more and, get this, is all red!"
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Post by BoilerRoomBrawler on Nov 19, 2009 12:10:22 GMT -5
I have to agree with OP that Apocalypse can never truly measure up until he actually has to contend with non-X-men heroes.
Otherwise put me in the "any villain could be made good by the right writers" group.
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Post by Push R Truth on Nov 19, 2009 12:24:09 GMT -5
I have a love/hate thing for Dr Doom.
Great Villain most of the time (my favorite actually), up until he needs to be defeated... then it turns into a reoccurring joke: "Oh, you only defeated a Doom-Bot, HA HA HA... I'll get you next time Captain Planet!"
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Post by Hulk With A Mustache on Nov 19, 2009 14:02:33 GMT -5
Superboy Prime. He's just so f***ing annoying.
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Post by JDviant on Nov 19, 2009 14:19:24 GMT -5
Diablo, in that Stan Lee AND John Byrne couldn't make me care. Kesel actually did make a good Diablo story though, so rock on Karl.
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Post by Joker on Nov 19, 2009 14:25:10 GMT -5
Mystique would probably be my number one choice, purely from a logical no one in the marvel universe should ever trust her by now.
Every team, group she has joined she has backstabbed, also a minor niggle for me is she seems to be able to recuperate from severe wounds despite not having a healing factor.
Plus with lots of my favorite villains (Mysterio, Thanos, Omega Red, Mr Sinister, Carnage, Sabretooth) being killed off/currently dead the fact she is still around really grates.
Edit: Yeah I like Carnage, there are numerous worse villains than the only true serial killer in Spidey's Rogue gallery.
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Post by Mozenrath on Nov 19, 2009 14:34:52 GMT -5
I like him, and do not hate him, but Ra's Al Ghul sometimes seriously pisses me off. He's been around hundreds of years, and he can't establish a legacy without Batman? Surely he can find someone else suitable when it turned out Batman had no interest.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2009 15:11:01 GMT -5
Mystique would probably be my number one choice, purely from a logical no one in the marvel universe should ever trust her by now. Every team, group she has joined she has backstabbed, also a minor niggle for me is she seems to be able to recuperate from severe wounds despite not having a healing factor. Plus with lots of my favorite villains (Mysterio, Thanos, Omega Red, Mr Sinister, Carnage, Sabretooth) being killed off/currently dead the fact she is still around really grates. Edit: Yeah I like Carnage, there are numerous worse villains than the only true serial killer in Spidey's Rogue gallery. I'm right with ya on Carnage
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Post by jamofpearls on Nov 19, 2009 15:14:53 GMT -5
Speaking of Carnage. Can't stand him.
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Post by hollywood on Nov 19, 2009 15:20:49 GMT -5
For a long time it was Norman Osborne/Green Goblin.
But the scarce handful of things I've seen of him in Thunderbolts was actually pretty damn good. I remember thinking "Holy crap, I'm actually interested in this character again!?"
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Post by Baldobomb-22-OH-MAN!!! on Nov 19, 2009 19:10:49 GMT -5
As much as I love him Magneto. Mainly due to the fact that he is one of the main problems in the perpetual cycle of repeated plot points in the X-Men comics. When Wolverine killed him during Grant's run I was like f*** YES, FINALLY! But we all know what happened afterwards. Chris Claremont: WAH WAH WAH that didn't happen! now Im going to come up with a convoluted and dumb reason that even a 5 year old would think was retarded to make my way the right way! also, in response to the original question, I've pretty much had it with Red Hulk and Norman Osborne. Osborne is f***ing AWESOME in the hands of the right writers (Warren Ellis) but Bendis turned him into this lame Lex Luthor wannabe who is overexposed and has done exactly shit all of interest in his time as leader of Hammer except sit around on his hands doing nothing until the next overhyped super-event. and Red Hulk, I don't need to explain, it was a bad idea and he's rammed down everyone's throats. oh, and this idiot: I'LL KILL YOU TO DEATH [/Superbitch-Prime voice]
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Post by Baldobomb-22-OH-MAN!!! on Nov 19, 2009 19:11:49 GMT -5
The Ventriloquist. I can't believe this character wasn't some one-shot 1960s nobody instead of the recurring 80s/90s/2000s villain he is. Even Kite-Man, the Calculator and Calendar Man are more well-thought out. hey Kite-man's pretty cool in Batman: Brave and the Bold.
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Post by Jiren on Nov 19, 2009 19:56:01 GMT -5
Reed Richards isn't really a villain. (no matter how he's portrayed sometimes) Zip it you, Rorschach has a point. Anyway I vote for Doom's "master", What a joke.
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