Jay Peas 42
El Dandy
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Post by Jay Peas 42 on Dec 14, 2009 22:10:42 GMT -5
Re: Odin: In the earlier German version of the myths, Odin starts wars to swell the ranks of his undead army. Granted, he does that to fill the ranks of his undead army, but it not unlike Ares in the Illiad.
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J is Justice
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Hi.
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Post by J is Justice on Dec 14, 2009 22:12:27 GMT -5
Clayton from Tarzan.
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livetowin
Dennis Stamp
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Post by livetowin on Dec 14, 2009 22:57:09 GMT -5
I like Scar because he's pretty much Claudius from Hamlet. And I like Hamlet. Claudius was an intriguing villain. I don't know if you were referencing this, but The Lion King is a retelling of Hamlet. So, it's not surprising that Scar seems a lot like Claudius. Also, on the Maleficent kick...she can turn into a freakin' dragon. That beats pretty much everyone. Oh yeah, oh yeah. My english teacher used to say that every story was just a retelling of four originals. Not sure what the other ones were, but two were Hamlet and Cinderella. I always used to find it fun to see which character was which. Simba = Hamlet JR Mufasa = Hamlet SR Scar = Claudius Timon and Pumba = Rosencrantz and Guildenstern Nala = Ophelia Sarabi = Gertrude The other ones are more fuzzy. Rafiki = ? Zazu = Osric?
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Post by SHAKEMASTER TV9 is Don Knotts on Dec 14, 2009 23:08:16 GMT -5
Rafiki is Prospero.
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Lupin the Third
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Post by Lupin the Third on Dec 14, 2009 23:18:54 GMT -5
So, if the Lion King was Hamlet redone, would you consider the Lion King 2: Simba's Pride to be a retelling of Romeo and Juliet, just without the ending where the lovers die?
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AriadosMan
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Your friendly neighborhood superhero
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Post by AriadosMan on Dec 15, 2009 0:56:15 GMT -5
Re: Odin: In the earlier German version of the myths, Odin starts wars to swell the ranks of his undead army. Granted, he does that to fill the ranks of his undead army, but it not unlike Ares in the Illiad. Odin also breeds with mortal women and manipulates his champions in elaborate schemes, according to the old Germanic religion. Because he was so shifty and manipulative, the Romans referred to the chief of the Germanic gods as "Mercury". Because Odin was also a god of chieftains/kings, who were by nature manipulative and bloodthirsty.
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Goldenbane
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Post by Goldenbane on Dec 15, 2009 1:19:03 GMT -5
Hades in the greek myths was never evil. He was serious about death but wasn't a devil or satan type. He did kidnap Persephone but he was love struck and that was no worse than what Zeus usually does with women. Waters of Forgetfulness was for the souls to forget their past for reincarnation. The heroes who encountered didn't like what they saw in the underworld but most were there to interfer with his death or for their own selfish reasons, like Theseus kidnapping Helen and his buddy trying to steal Hades wife. I think Posiedon has caused far more trouble to mortals, gods and heroes than Hades ever did in the myths. When did this post classic camp Disney era start? Pocahontas, The Hunchback of Notre Dame, Mulan, Tarzan, Atlantis: The Lost Empire were all evil with no camp to them. Hades was written in a comedic way because they hired James Woods and did their best to instill much of him into the character. There is something to be said about a mythology when the woman-abducting Lord of the Underworld who sets out eternal punishments is the most redeemable character. One of Hercules's 12 labors was to go to the underworld and fetch Cerebus. Hercules marched straight up to Hades and just plain asked if he could borrow cerebus to complete this labor. Did Hades demand his soul in return? No. His lover's life? No. All his possessions? No. His eternal service forever in Hades/Hell? No. What did Hades tell Hercules when asked if he could borrow Cerebus? "If you can take him without seriously hurting him, and promise to bring him back, you can have him." Herc then punches out Cerebus with a single blow and drags his ass to the surface...only to later return Hades's dog back to him. Dang, what an evil and horrible man that God was! ;D
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Post by Red Impact on Dec 15, 2009 2:20:03 GMT -5
I'll get taken to the cross for this but Gaston always struck me as one of the worst Disney villains of all time. Wait wait, what? Gaston? I mean, really? Gaston? C'mon! No one's quick as Gaston, no one's slick as Gaston, no one's neck is incredible thick as Gaston! Plus, he shot Bambi's mom.
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AriadosMan
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Your friendly neighborhood superhero
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Post by AriadosMan on Dec 15, 2009 2:23:44 GMT -5
Actually, Gaston was pretty badass for a 90s Disney villain. He looks like a dandy but is actually brutally cruel. A good gimmick, considering most Disney baddies look hideous.
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Post by ThereIsNoAbsurdistOnlyZuul on Dec 15, 2009 2:24:03 GMT -5
Yeah, Cherborg looks cool. That's about it. Maleficent is a the Queen of Disney Villians. Her name means "evil doer" in Latin. She commands an Army of Goblins, has a Crow as a famliar, is feared by basically everyone to a great extent, and her motivation is being slighted. I mean, think about it, how many other Disney films do the Heroes work for 17 years against a villian and still fail? None. She has the thornbush trick, and a sweet classical theme. She also turns into a Dragon. Who else can turn into a dragon? Madam Mim, but who can do it and not suck. And not just any dragon, but one incarnate of all the powers of hell. Can you even say that in a Disney film these days? Gods in ancient myth represent the forces of nature, which are themselves cruel and capricious, as opposed to the modern view of gods as the ideal, as the best that humanity strives for. Jupiter is annoying because Thunder is annoying. Neptune is annoying and dangerous because the sea is annoying and dangerous. Odin is cruel and capricious because battle is cruel and capricious. Did Odin eally ever do anything cruel and capricious? Sure he killed himself repeatedly, but did he ever actually do anything major to others? What is forgotten is that while Odin is the strongest of the Aesir, he also was the shrewdest and smartest. This guy expertly manipulated the other gods, bullied, cajoled, tricked and played them all for the suckers. Certainly his intentions have always been mostly good. "Prevent Ragnarok, keep the Aesir alive." But that was really just to keep himself alive. Sure a god of war, kind of. Tactics and strategy, definitely, and he traded away his eye for wisdom and prescience. He played the long term game, so often times in short terms, which a lot of the other Aesir were fixated on and humans lived in, it was hard to work out his motives.
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Post by BoilerRoomBrawler on Dec 15, 2009 2:52:47 GMT -5
Lame Disney villains?
Assuming that we are strictly talking about theatrically released Disney animated films, I'd say that the Butler from The Aristocats just about takes the cake.
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Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on Dec 15, 2009 9:35:28 GMT -5
Did Odin eally ever do anything cruel and capricious? Sure he killed himself repeatedly, but did he ever actually do anything major to others? What is forgotten is that while Odin is the strongest of the Aesir, he also was the shrewdest and smartest. This guy expertly manipulated the other gods, bullied, cajoled, tricked and played them all for the suckers. Certainly his intentions have always been mostly good. "Prevent Ragnarok, keep the Aesir alive." But that was really just to keep himself alive. Sure a god of war, kind of. Tactics and strategy, definitely, and he traded away his eye for wisdom and prescience. He played the long term game, so often times in short terms, which a lot of the other Aesir were fixated on and humans lived in, it was hard to work out his motives. Even Thor, pretty much the main god outside of him, wasn't free of being tricked by him. Not that I am sure Thor was overly smart. I think he was more concerned with murdering giants than games of wit.
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