@TenaciousBe
Hank Scorpio
Guess who's back... back again
Posts: 5,659
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Post by @TenaciousBe on Dec 9, 2009 21:59:53 GMT -5
Could we roughly categorize Cena as Vince's Mary Sue?
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Jay Peas 42
El Dandy
Totally flips out ALL the time.
Is looking forward to a Nation of Domination Kwannza Special.
Posts: 8,329
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Post by Jay Peas 42 on Dec 9, 2009 22:15:45 GMT -5
Yeah, you have to go back to amatuer fanfic to learn what a Mary Sue truely is, in it's rawest form. The perfect female ensign. The newly discovered half-Saiayen. The Matrix Wannabes. The equal of the main character. Most professional writters can improve their self inserts away from Mary Sue. Fat teenage girls cannot.
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H-Fist
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 6,485
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Post by H-Fist on Dec 9, 2009 22:18:41 GMT -5
Could we roughly categorize Cena as Vince's Mary Sue? I was more thinking Triple H, myself.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2009 22:20:23 GMT -5
Considering Vince has won the world and ECW titles I'd say he's his own Mary Sue
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Triple Kelly
Vegeta
Not once, twice, but three times a Kelly
Posts: 9,470
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Post by Triple Kelly on Dec 9, 2009 22:36:37 GMT -5
Could we roughly categorize Cena as Vince's Mary Sue? I was more thinking Triple H, myself. Raven said on one of his shoots that back in the day, Vince saw himself as both The Million Dollar Man and the Hulk Hogan/Lex Luger jacked up All American patriot. But yeah, nowadays Vince is his own Mary Sue. Or Marty Sue or Gary Stu.
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Post by BoilerRoomBrawler on Dec 9, 2009 23:20:51 GMT -5
What everyone else said: they generally are an author's self-inserted character who makes the story revolve around them, more egregious when they are not the main character.
Mary Sues are virtually flawless and tend to be more powerful and influential than canon or main characters.
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erisi236
Fry's dog Seymour
... enjoys the rich, smooth taste of Camels.
Not good! Not good! Not good!
Posts: 21,904
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Post by erisi236 on Dec 9, 2009 23:22:17 GMT -5
At least in Vinces case he actually is the billionaire head of a popular wrestling organization.
A WWE Gary Stu would be if I wrote myself in as the new guy just drafted up from a backyard federation who has the talking ability of the Rock, the wrestling ability of Brett Heart, the fan support of Cena, is also loved by everyone in the locker room and lusted after by at least 4 different Divas and goes on to hold all the titles and eventually run the company.
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Post by BoilerRoomBrawler on Dec 9, 2009 23:33:32 GMT -5
At least in Vinces case he actually is the billionaire head of a popular wrestling organization. A WWE Gary Stu would be if I wrote myself in as the new guy just drafted up from a backyard federation who has the talking ability of the Rock, the wrestling ability of Brett Heart, the fan support of Cena, is also loved by everyone in the locker room and lusted after by at least 4 different Divas and goes on to hold all the titles and eventually run the company. Bingo.
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Post by BorneAgain on Dec 10, 2009 0:05:06 GMT -5
And yes, he's a mediocre writer and has a drinking problem, but other than that... Eh, Brian's way to much of a failure in both romance and in writing to be much of a Mary Sue. A self-insert Author Avatar certainly, but Mary Sue is a bit of stretch.
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Post by Hugh Mungus on Dec 10, 2009 0:08:21 GMT -5
Could we roughly categorize Cena as Vince's Mary Sue? I was more thinking Triple H, myself. And Jeff Jarrett is the TNA equivalent.
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Post by Janitor From Mars on Dec 10, 2009 0:12:00 GMT -5
Brian from Family Guy
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Post by Red Impact on Dec 10, 2009 0:22:37 GMT -5
Considering Vince has won the world and ECW titles I'd say he's his own Mary Sue He doesn't win clean. When he goes up against wrestlers, he tends to lose unless he stacks the deck completely in favor of himself. If he were a Mary Sue, he'd beat them in a long match that he was never in danger of losing and do it cleanly. He's not a Mary Sue, he's just a narcissistic boss. The Mary Sue is the Harry Potter fan character that goes to the good house, aces all her classes, learns spells beyond what she's supposed to learn, is lusted after by the students and teachers alike, and is related to Snape, Dumbledore, Potter and Voldermort somehow. It's the character who is completely out of place in their surroundings given everything that came before them and comes from a writer who makes all the characters act completely out of character in relation to them. A lot of characters who are considered such aren't really, because even if they're annoying, they still make a degree of sense in their surroundings. Also, author inserts aren't necessarily Mary Sues. They can be, but they aren't necessarily.
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Post by BorneAgain on Dec 10, 2009 0:25:53 GMT -5
It's the character who is completely out of place in their surroundings given everything that came before them and comes from a writer who makes all the characters act completely out of character in relation to them. A lot of characters who are considered such aren't really, because even if they're annoying, they still make a degree of sense in their surroundings. Also, author inserts aren't necessarily Mary Sues. They can be, but they aren't necessarily. Indeed. Kurt Vonnegut literally inserted himself in his books at times and was hardly a Mary Sue. Though granted that was more for surrealism and comedy.
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Post by Red Impact on Dec 10, 2009 0:49:43 GMT -5
It's the character who is completely out of place in their surroundings given everything that came before them and comes from a writer who makes all the characters act completely out of character in relation to them. A lot of characters who are considered such aren't really, because even if they're annoying, they still make a degree of sense in their surroundings. Also, author inserts aren't necessarily Mary Sues. They can be, but they aren't necessarily. Indeed. Kurt Vonnegut literally inserted himself in his books at times and was hardly a Mary Sue. Though granted that was more for surrealism and comedy. Indeed, a lot of Hemingway's characters share striking resemblances to him, and they're not Mary Sue's either. Stephen King's done the same. If a character can come off as real, even if it's an author insertion, it's not a Mary Sue. Mary Sues blend into their stories like a southern debutant in a biker bar.
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Post by Janitor From Mars on Dec 10, 2009 1:02:40 GMT -5
Indeed. Kurt Vonnegut literally inserted himself in his books at times and was hardly a Mary Sue. Though granted that was more for surrealism and comedy. Indeed, a lot of Hemingway's characters share striking resemblances to him, and they're not Mary Sue's either. Stephen King's done the same. If a character can come off as real, even if it's an author insertion, it's not a Mary Sue. Mary Sues blend into their stories like a southern debutant in a biker bar. Plus, Interview With A Vampire did a better job of naive girl-meets scary vampires.
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Post by BoilerRoomBrawler on Dec 10, 2009 9:48:29 GMT -5
Indeed. Kurt Vonnegut literally inserted himself in his books at times and was hardly a Mary Sue. Though granted that was more for surrealism and comedy. Indeed, a lot of Hemingway's characters share striking resemblances to him, and they're not Mary Sue's either. Stephen King's done the same. If a character can come off as real, even if it's an author insertion, it's not a Mary Sue. Mary Sues blend into their stories like a southern debutant in a biker bar. That's... a rather different illustration, but completely valid in my book. ;D
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Post by angryfan on Dec 10, 2009 10:52:49 GMT -5
Eery writer puts some of themselves into a main character, even if the gender differs. There will always be a personality trait that helps the author relate to, "speak to", and learn from the character as they write.
I have no issue with this.
Mary Sues will alawys have the answer to every problem, every unasked question, will be stronger, tougher, and smarter than everyone else. They CAN be redeemed, but most authors simply like the idea too much.
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Dec 10, 2009 10:58:38 GMT -5
Eery writer puts some of themselves into a main character, even if the gender differs. There will always be a personality trait that helps the author relate to, "speak to", and learn from the character as they write. I have no issue with this. Mary Sues will alawys have the answer to every problem, every unasked question, will be stronger, tougher, and smarter than everyone else. They CAN be redeemed, but most authors simply like the idea too much. Based on that, I could also see Stan and Kyle as being at the very least, self-insertions for Trey and Matt.
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Post by angryfan on Dec 10, 2009 11:10:19 GMT -5
Eery writer puts some of themselves into a main character, even if the gender differs. There will always be a personality trait that helps the author relate to, "speak to", and learn from the character as they write. I have no issue with this. Mary Sues will alawys have the answer to every problem, every unasked question, will be stronger, tougher, and smarter than everyone else. They CAN be redeemed, but most authors simply like the idea too much. Based on that, I could also see Stan and Kyle as being at the very least, self-insertions for Trey and Matt. I hadn't thought about that one, but you're right.
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Grendel
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
But ... why is all the rum gone?
Posts: 17,593
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Post by Grendel on Dec 10, 2009 11:57:05 GMT -5
Rose Tyler from Nuwho Jesus god she was unbearable, I prefered Martha & Donna. At least they weren't the focus of the damn show (Well when anyone but Moffatt wrote an episode). I just remember tuning in to the first episode she was on, and I said to myself, "Well ... she kind of resembles Alicia Rhodes, doesn't she?"
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