Corporate H
Grimlock
He Buries Them Alive
Posts: 13,829
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Post by Corporate H on Dec 10, 2009 12:24:52 GMT -5
Any primetime sitcom starring a famous comedian, Dennis Leary has been the worst example of this in recent years.
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Post by Young Game on Dec 10, 2009 12:31:11 GMT -5
Indeed, a lot of Hemingway's characters share striking resemblances to him, and they're not Mary Sue's either. Stephen King's done the same. If a character can come off as real, even if it's an author insertion, it's not a Mary Sue. Mary Sues blend into their stories like a southern debutant in a biker bar. So...they are confused, yet interested?
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Post by Cela on Dec 10, 2009 16:02:12 GMT -5
Based on that, I could also see Stan and Kyle as being at the very least, self-insertions for Trey and Matt. I hadn't thought about that one, but you're right. They both claim to be Cartman, take of that what you will.
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Post by Rorschach on Dec 10, 2009 16:04:31 GMT -5
Would Bruce Wayne/Batman be Bob Kane's "mary sue"?
How about Rorschach for Alan Moore?
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Post by Cela on Dec 10, 2009 16:10:17 GMT -5
Would Bruce Wayne/Batman be Bob Kane's "mary sue"? How about Rorschach for Alan Moore? Definately on Batman If Rorschach, Moore must really hate himself.
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Post by Rorschach on Dec 10, 2009 16:17:06 GMT -5
Would Bruce Wayne/Batman be Bob Kane's "mary sue"? How about Rorschach for Alan Moore? Definately on Batman If Rorschach, Moore must really hate himself. I would say the same thing, but...I dunno. I mean, the obvious choice would be Ozymandias or Manhattan, right? But think about it...Moore gave ONE character the moral high ground in all of it. He made one character the real human touchstone of the story, the guy whose death hits us the hardest out of all of them. The one we MISS when he's gone. The one who was RIGHT about it all, all along. Which begs the question, is there more than one kind of Mary Sue? Does it ALWAYS have to be the star of the show, or can it be the understudy who steals the spotlight, and who we love FAR more than the star, anyway? ;D
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Post by shiranui on Dec 10, 2009 16:22:54 GMT -5
A WWE Gary Stu would be if I wrote myself in as the new guy just drafted up from a backyard federation who has the talking ability of the Rock, the wrestling ability of Brett Heart, the fan support of Cena, is also loved by everyone in the locker room and lusted after by at least 4 different Divas and goes on to hold all the titles and eventually run the company. Isn't this basically what happens in every CAW story mode ever in the Smackdown vs. RAW series?
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Post by delurked on Dec 10, 2009 17:02:02 GMT -5
Definately on Batman If Rorschach, Moore must really hate himself. I would say the same thing, but...I dunno. I mean, the obvious choice would be Ozymandias or Manhattan, right? But think about it...Moore gave ONE character the moral high ground in all of it. He made one character the real human touchstone of the story, the guy whose death hits us the hardest out of all of them. The one we MISS when he's gone. The one who was RIGHT about it all, all along. Which begs the question, is there more than one kind of Mary Sue? Does it ALWAYS have to be the star of the show, or can it be the understudy who steals the spotlight, and who we love FAR more than the star, anyway? ;D This is getting off topic, but I don't think Moore felt he gave Rorschach the moral high ground. From what I've read I think he meant the character to be a loathsome nutjob. And I think the understudy who manages to become more popular than the real star of the show is called the Ensemble Darkhorse.
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Dec 10, 2009 17:15:51 GMT -5
Definately on Batman If Rorschach, Moore must really hate himself. I would say the same thing, but...I dunno. I mean, the obvious choice would be Ozymandias or Manhattan, right? But think about it...Moore gave ONE character the moral high ground in all of it. He made one character the real human touchstone of the story, the guy whose death hits us the hardest out of all of them. The one we MISS when he's gone. The one who was RIGHT about it all, all along. Which begs the question, is there more than one kind of Mary Sue? Does it ALWAYS have to be the star of the show, or can it be the understudy who steals the spotlight, and who we love FAR more than the star, anyway? ;D Isn't Rorschach technically the star of Watchmen? (If, that is, you're referring to it.)
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Post by Cela on Dec 10, 2009 17:49:17 GMT -5
A WWE Gary Stu would be if I wrote myself in as the new guy just drafted up from a backyard federation who has the talking ability of the Rock, the wrestling ability of Brett Heart, the fan support of Cena, is also loved by everyone in the locker room and lusted after by at least 4 different Divas and goes on to hold all the titles and eventually run the company. Isn't this basically what happens in every CAW story mode ever in the Smackdown vs. RAW series? Really? Cause every story mode I remember is me beating the crap out of the heel for the entire match, then a cutscene taking over and me embarrasingly losing the match.
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Post by Shy Guy on Dec 10, 2009 17:55:44 GMT -5
Any primetime sitcom starring a famous comedian, Dennis Leary has been the worst example of this in recent years. my brother and i were talking about that the other day. i found it super noticeable in the most recent season.
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Post by shiranui on Dec 10, 2009 18:08:15 GMT -5
Really? Cause every story mode I remember is me beating the crap out of the heel for the entire match, then a cutscene taking over and me embarrasingly losing the match. That's true, but usually when you lose in a cutscene it happens because of interference of some sort. Also, I recall many of these story modes involving your wrestler sleeping with half or all of the Diva roster, winning handicap matches every other week, beating everyone in their specialty matches while possibly being injured, winning the Royal Rumble and several championships, feuding with and embarrassing Vince McMahon and generally being in the receiving end of a mega push to end all mega pushes during his first year in the company. When I played through SVR 2010's Road to Wrestlemania using my Joey Ryan CAW, I remember thinking that had all this stuff happened in real life I would have gotten sick of seeing Joey Ryan halfway through the storyline... and the guy is my favorite indy wrestler.
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AFN: Judge Shred
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Wanted to change his doohicky.
Member of The Bluetista Buyers Club
Posts: 18,221
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Post by AFN: Judge Shred on Dec 10, 2009 18:32:08 GMT -5
Any primetime sitcom starring a famous comedian, Dennis Leary has been the worst example of this in recent years. If you are talking about Rescue Me, there is no way it fits. Tommy has way too many problems and demons. Yes he does insane stuff that can get him killed, but he does it because he is crazy and has a death wish, not because he is this perfect example of a human. He is one of the most flawed characters ever, he almost never makes a good choice in his life and is completely self destructive. He is the lead character, not the Mary Sue in any way, shape, or form.
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Corporate H
Grimlock
He Buries Them Alive
Posts: 13,829
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Post by Corporate H on Dec 10, 2009 20:19:14 GMT -5
Any primetime sitcom starring a famous comedian, Dennis Leary has been the worst example of this in recent years. If you are talking about Rescue Me, there is no way it fits. Tommy has way too many problems and demons. Yes he does insane stuff that can get him killed, but he does it because he is crazy and has a death wish, not because he is this perfect example of a human. He is one of the most flawed characters ever, he almost never makes a good choice in his life and is completely self destructive. He is the lead character, not the Mary Sue in any way, shape, or form. I'm not the biggest fan of the show, but whenever I do get a chance to watch he's usually messing somebody up or nailing the hottest girl on the show. They just try way too hard to make him into the biggest bad ass around when he's probably the least qualified or, should I say, least believable canditate of the cast. There's no way that is a coincidence, at least in this guy's opinion.
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AFN: Judge Shred
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Wanted to change his doohicky.
Member of The Bluetista Buyers Club
Posts: 18,221
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Post by AFN: Judge Shred on Dec 10, 2009 20:40:33 GMT -5
If you are talking about Rescue Me, there is no way it fits. Tommy has way too many problems and demons. Yes he does insane stuff that can get him killed, but he does it because he is crazy and has a death wish, not because he is this perfect example of a human. He is one of the most flawed characters ever, he almost never makes a good choice in his life and is completely self destructive. He is the lead character, not the Mary Sue in any way, shape, or form. I'm not the biggest fan of the show, but whenever I do get a chance to watch he's usually messing somebody up or nailing the hottest girl on the show. They just try way too hard to make him into the biggest bad ass around when he's probably the least qualified or, should I say, least believable canditate of the cast. There's no way that is a coincidence, at least in this guy's opinion. I didn't say it was, I am saying he isn't a Mary Sue. Too much goes wrong, and almost all of them are his own fault. Of course he is the chosen one, Leary and his friends created the show, and he was the biggest name cast.
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Post by HMARK Center on Dec 10, 2009 22:43:29 GMT -5
One differentiation that should be made is between a Mary Sue and a Self-Insertion/Author Avatar.
An Author Avatar still contains relevant flaws and personality quirks that makes them easier to relate to and more realistic, without going too far in a sad attempt at making the character overly dark and edgy.
A Mary Sue (or the male equivalent) may have flaws, but they're completely irrelevant to the story and only serve to make the character more sickeningly endearing. Otherwise, the character comes off as near flawless in every way, eventually using those qualities to take over a story and subvert it in almost every way imaginable. I think a true Sue also has to be the main character, or at least the prime focus, of the story he/she is in.
I think most Mary Sues also happen to be Author Avatars, but not all or most Avatars tend to be Mary Sues.
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Post by Kash Flagg on Dec 10, 2009 22:46:53 GMT -5
She was in Prom Night 2.
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Ass Dan
King Koopa
Curious about extra lines
Have you seen me?
Posts: 12,259
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Post by Ass Dan on Dec 10, 2009 22:50:52 GMT -5
Ethan from Ctrl-Alt-Del is the biggest Mary Sue ever. He's B^U personified.
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Post by Young Game on Dec 11, 2009 0:34:48 GMT -5
You're thinking of "Mary Lou".
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Post by Kash Flagg on Dec 11, 2009 0:41:31 GMT -5
You're thinking of "Mary Lou". Hello Mary Lou, goodbye heart.
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