Are they seriously screwing up Sheamus?

[Back to being Cenanuff]

They finally let him talk. He got a good reaction from the crowd last night. I just think they're putting someone in the main event just so it's not HHH/Orton/Cena anymore. Like if they were trying to put Sheamus over as a legit badass, they should have had him grab a microphone after the table spot, sit up and say something like "is that the best you got, John? Because if so, I'll be home in time for supper tonight." And the questionable DQ just says he might have been afraid to take the FUAA. They should have had him take it and kick out on 2. And the number of times he used the bicycle kick says that Cena's going to reverse it into an STF at some point in time. He could still be vulnerable to a submission move, but if they're using the word "warrior" in someone's name, he should show more resilience to his opponent's moves.

[Citizen Grimm]

He's fighting Cena. Honestly, what did you expect?

[rnrk supports BLM]

I don't think they're trying to put Sheamus over; this feels more like a test run to see if he can get himself over, like Miz's feud with Cena or Punk's first title reign. He probably won't get a clean win over anyone higher up the card than MVP over the next few weeks, then Cena will effortlessly kick the crap out of him several times to remind us of their respective positions on the totem pole. But if Sheamus is able to establish that he has something during that, he'll get built back up in the months thereafter.

For what it's worth, he's getting a decent response for the crowds, he's a better talker than most of the longtime midcarders who the IWC would prefer to see in his spot, and I thought he looked quite crisp in the ring during the ~2 minutes of his match tonight.

[Dave at the Movies]

I think Sheamus' title reign right now has a bunch to do with his relationship with HHH. Why else would they make someone who just debuted like less than a year ago WWE Champion? IN the long run I think shooting him to the top will have been a mistake. They tried to do the same thing with Cena when he first got brought in with the short tights when they tried to make him the face of their new botched Ruthless Aggression Era which never happened. It wasn't until they slowed down Cena and let him be himself that he finally got better. Now Cena is basically right back where he started in 2002 only now he wears rapper clothes and doesnt rap.

[Back to being Cenanuff]

I don't know, it just seems to me like they're just half-assing it to stop people bitching about the main event scene being so stale. Kinda like he's holding the belt for Cena to take back later. HHH may very well have had something to do with it, but they just haven't been doing a very good job on his build once he got Cena in his sights. Before, it was a great, old school, heel that beats the crap out of people slow build gimmick. Ever since Cena became his feud, it's like the company is afraid to make Cena look even slightly weak. So now, we get Sheamus winning the belt, and then avoiding confrontations with Cena, when Cena is so over, that Sheamus could put him in a burlap bag and beat him with a kendo stick until he bleeds from his eyeballs, and Cena would still sell more merch than anyone on the roster, and it would just be seen as a speed bump in the road before Cena gets his belt back.

[wrestlecrapcrap]

He ended the show standing tall while Cena was laying in the ring beaten down. What exactly is the problem here? Because he didn't kick out of the companies' main money makers' finishing move and proclaim he was invincible? Jesus, they are building up Sheamus, but it doesn't mean they have to do it while making his opponents, particularly not someone like Cena, look like crap.

I think it's going fine with Sheamus. It's not like they are trying to bill him as someone who thinks he is a legit competitor in the sport (like an Angle or Lesnar), what they are doing is building him up as a bully. He'll kick the crap out of you, and it will probably lead to the title, just because he is so strong. To be honest, if he didn't do heelish things like evade Cena and get himself disqualified in the title match, then there's not much keeping him heel. You then verge on giving him Goldberg-like dominance over everybody else and they don't want fans to get behind him like that.

I like it. He's a heel. He's a heel that knows he can beat the crap out of you, but he's not averse to taking the easy way out...because that's what heels do. If it was Orton, they would have had Cena run after him, get him back in the ring and promptly apply the STF. I laughed so much when Sheamus got to kick him, twice, because you think 'Oh here we go, I know where this is going, Cena gets mad and beats him up' but that didn't happen. Sheamus was a coward, but he reinforced that despite that, he can still beat you up.

[Solid Stryk-Dizzle]

You wanted Sheamus to stand up and no-sell being put through a table? Oookay then.

[Kae]

Dec 29, 2009 9:05:58 GMT -5 wrestlecrapcrap said:

He ended the show standing tall while Cena was laying in the ring beaten down. What exactly is the problem here? Because he didn't kick out of the companies' main money makers' finishing move and proclaim he was invincible? Jesus, they are building up Sheamus, but it doesn't mean they have to do it while making his opponents, particularly not someone like Cena, look like crap.

I think it's going fine with Sheamus. It's not like they are trying to bill him as someone who thinks he is a legit competitor in the sport (like an Angle or Lesnar), what they are doing is building him up as a bully. He'll kick the crap out of you, and it will probably lead to the title, just because he is so strong. To be honest, if he didn't do heelish things like evade Cena and get himself disqualified in the title match, then there's not much keeping him heel. You then verge on giving him Goldberg-like dominance over everybody else and they don't want fans to get behind him like that.

I like it. He's a heel. He's a heel that knows he can beat the crap out of you, but he's not averse to taking the easy way out...because that's what heels do. If it was Orton, they would have had Cena run after him, get him back in the ring and promptly apply the STF. I laughed so much when Sheamus got to kick him, twice, because you think 'Oh here we go, I know where this is going, Cena gets mad and beats him up' but that didn't happen. Sheamus was a coward, but he reinforced that despite that, he can still beat you up.

This x 1000. He's a heel and a bully. If he sat up after the table spot . . . well, he'd look like Cena in his most Supercena moments.

Plus, the WWE is always careful about what the final image is before RAW goes off the air. In this case, it was not Sheamus lying on the table, but Sheamus standing over a beaten Cena and proclaiming that RAW belongs to him. That's what they wanted people to take away from the show. So, I would argue that they made him look reasonably strong and resilient.

[Apricots And A Pear Tree]

Dec 29, 2009 7:04:56 GMT -5 Back to being Cenanuff said:

"is that the best you got, John? Because if so, I'll be home in time for supper tonight."

That would sound pretty cool with the Irish accent.Or at least it does in my head.

[Back to being Cenanuff]

Dec 29, 2009 9:24:47 GMT -5 Solid Stryk-Dizzle said:

You wanted Sheamus to stand up and no-sell being put through a table? Oookay then.

No, I didn't say that. I said "sit up". Like how HHH said he was going to make "one phone call" he was leaning up against the corner, breathing heavy. And I'm sick of heels being cowardly. Arguably the greatest heel in history, Jake Roberts, was never cowardly. He was calculating. He was opportunistic. He always made the face face him on his terms. But he was never cowardly. Why can't they do this with Sheamus? Just because you make the super face of the company look vulnerable, that doesn't mean he looks like crap. It means he looks beatable, and the table win wasn't necessarily a fluke. What is it with people thinking that you have to have one of two extremes? I'm just saying, if you're going to build him, build him like you want him to last, not like someone who's going down next PPV.

[Solid Stryk-Dizzle]

He beat down Cena at the end of the show! I'd say that made him look strong.

[angryfan]

I think it goes back to a question I've asked time and time again. When does a performer get to the point that they can stop being protected? Austin could do a job and people were fine because they knew he'd just go kick someone else's ass and raise a bunch of hell. Rock was the same way.

Yet, in this trying to build Sheamus, the trend seems to be "protect Cena, don't let him look too weak even when he gets beat down". I WANT Sheamus to kick out of the finish, I want to see him stare down the top face and say, "more please". That will only serve to make the eventual babyface victory, which we all know has to happen, far more logical and longer lasting.

You let SHeamus have the upper hand for another month, give him a clean pinfall win over Cena, and the anticipation gets ratcheted up another notch. This serves to make more money, keep fans interested, and give an up and coming heel with so damn much potential the steam and legs that he needs.

Run the program through Feburary and, when Cena finally gets his win, RAW has a main event heel that can then, since Cena will have moved on, either feud with Trips or Micheals (whomever isn't heel at that point) or maybe even work a program with whichever face they are ready to bring up as well.

[wrestlecrapcrap]

Dec 29, 2009 10:14:23 GMT -5 angryfan said:

I think it goes back to a question I've asked time and time again. When does a performer get to the point that they can stop being protected? Austin could do a job and people were fine because they knew he'd just go kick someone else's ass and raise a bunch of hell. Rock was the same way.

Yet, in this trying to build Sheamus, the trend seems to be "protect Cena, don't let him look too weak even when he gets beat down". I WANT Sheamus to kick out of the finish, I want to see him stare down the top face and say, "more please". That will only serve to make the eventual babyface victory, which we all know has to happen, far more logical and longer lasting.

You let SHeamus have the upper hand for another month, give him a clean pinfall win over Cena, and the anticipation gets ratcheted up another notch. This serves to make more money, keep fans interested, and give an up and coming heel with so damn much potential the steam and legs that he needs.

Run the program through Feburary and, when Cena finally gets his win, RAW has a main event heel that can then, since Cena will have moved on, either feud with Trips or Micheals (whomever isn't heel at that point) or maybe even work a program with whichever face they are ready to bring up as well.

Kicking out of the flagship's finisher should be reserved for the heel who is facing them at Wrestlemania. If guys kicked out of the stunner throughout the year, it makes the moment at Mania look less special. The reason Mania matches are epic is because the guys in the ring are allowed to do things they wouldn't normally be able to do, such as kick out of finishers that usually signal the end of the match. That then makes the crowd go crazy, and that's what makes a great match.

Having Sheamus virtually no-sell the AA on Raw would be a massive waste.

[El Hijo De Slapnuts]

You can have him kick out of the AA,Shawn did it a couple times and did it make the MAnia match LESS special,I think not;they're trying to build this guy and the match was fairly even offense wise between Sheamus and Cena but I'm sure Sheamus could've got out of the AA setup,many people have done it,he could've at least get out of the fireman's carry hold because EVERYONE IN THE CROWD SAW IT COMING;coward Sheamus isn't bad it's just I reserve that for non-monster heels,like Edge or Jericho,he should be a badass heel that can take it and dish it and still come out on the right end of the bargain.

[Back to being Cenanuff]

Dec 29, 2009 10:50:13 GMT -5 wrestlecrapcrap said:

Dec 29, 2009 10:14:23 GMT -5 angryfan said:

I think it goes back to a question I've asked time and time again. When does a performer get to the point that they can stop being protected? Austin could do a job and people were fine because they knew he'd just go kick someone else's ass and raise a bunch of hell. Rock was the same way.

Yet, in this trying to build Sheamus, the trend seems to be "protect Cena, don't let him look too weak even when he gets beat down". I WANT Sheamus to kick out of the finish, I want to see him stare down the top face and say, "more please". That will only serve to make the eventual babyface victory, which we all know has to happen, far more logical and longer lasting.

You let SHeamus have the upper hand for another month, give him a clean pinfall win over Cena, and the anticipation gets ratcheted up another notch. This serves to make more money, keep fans interested, and give an up and coming heel with so damn much potential the steam and legs that he needs.

Run the program through Feburary and, when Cena finally gets his win, RAW has a main event heel that can then, since Cena will have moved on, either feud with Trips or Micheals (whomever isn't heel at that point) or maybe even work a program with whichever face they are ready to bring up as well.

Kicking out of the flagship's finisher should be reserved for the heel who is facing them at Wrestlemania. If guys kicked out of the stunner throughout the year, it makes the moment at Mania look less special. The reason Mania matches are epic is because the guys in the ring are allowed to do things they wouldn't normally be able to do, such as kick out of finishers that usually signal the end of the match. That then makes the crowd go crazy, and that's what makes a great match.

Having Sheamus virtually no-sell the AA on Raw would be a massive waste.

Yeah, but people have kicked out of finishers on TV before. If you had Cole and Lawler do a "WHAAAAT?" and an "OMGWTFBBQ" at the kick out, it just makes Sheamus seem like he has something different than the other guys. And that's another thing. We've been seeing the same level of Cena for years now, and it's at the point where it gets boring watching him. When was the last time he had someone make him dig deeper and show us something new?

[Solid Stryk-Dizzle]

Dec 29, 2009 11:05:21 GMT -5 El Hijo De Slapnuts said:

You can have him kick out of the AA,Shawn did it a couple times and did it make the MAnia match LESS special,I think not.

When did Michaels kick out of the AA before the mania match with Cena. I don't even think they had a match before then.

[Metalheadbanger Man]

Maybe they'll have him pin Cena in a tag match or something. Just to prove that he can actually beat him clean.

And then Cena gets the title back and grants the first shot to HHH or Orton.

[Dynamite Kid]

Dec 29, 2009 7:41:33 GMT -5 Dave at the Movies said:

I think Sheamus' title reign right now has a bunch to do with his relationship with HHH. Why else would they make someone who just debuted like less than a year ago WWE Champion?

Kurt Angle?

[Back to being Cenanuff]

Dec 29, 2009 11:50:42 GMT -5 Metalheadbanger Man said:

Maybe they'll have him pin Cena in a tag match or something. Just to prove that he can actually beat him clean.

And then Cena gets the title back and grants the first shot to HHH or Orton.

And then the IWC can go back to banging its head against the wall.

[angryfan]

Dec 29, 2009 12:41:14 GMT -5 Dynamite Kid said:

Dec 29, 2009 7:41:33 GMT -5 Dave at the Movies said:

I think Sheamus' title reign right now has a bunch to do with his relationship with HHH. Why else would they make someone who just debuted like less than a year ago WWE Champion?

Kurt Angle?

Well played, although one they could point to verifiable evidence of his credentials, whereas the other, they can't. That is, unless they do some video evidence to place Sheamus into the Highlander movies and show him bicycle kicking people's heads off of their shoulders.

Actually, that might work.