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Post by derrtaysouth95 on Jan 7, 2010 23:41:47 GMT -5
I think we should call in Jesse Ventura and his team and let them research this for us.
If it's a work, it will be ther greatest work in history other than Kaufman/Lawler.
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Post by funkycoldmadina on Jan 8, 2010 0:09:18 GMT -5
Personally, I think it was a work.
In response to those who seem to wonder why Vince would allow Bret to leave so strong: Bret had complete creative control during the last 30 days of his contract. If you believe that he could refuse to lose to Michaels, which supposedly led to the screwjob, then why not believe that he and Vince came up with this angle because it satisfied both of them?
Everyone won. Michaels and McMahon were huge heels. Hart left with plenty of momentum for WCW and Austin would be able to use Michaels and McMahon's heat to propel him into the stratusphere. There never was a breach of contract. This was all 100% work.
The only question I have lingering in my mind is: Was the work between Hart and McMahon and they worked everyone else including HBK? Or was the work between HBK, Hart and McMahon and they worked everyone else?
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Post by bitteroldman on Jan 8, 2010 21:39:06 GMT -5
I think you hit the nail on the head; Brett and VKM worked Shawn and Hebner (and everyone else who thought it was a screwjob). I've always wondered why Shawn didn't at some point after admitting he was in on it try to blow Brett's cover but maybe that didn't happen because Shawn didn't know Brett was in on it too (and if that's the case, he may not to this day).
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"Hollywood" Cactus Matt
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Post by "Hollywood" Cactus Matt on Jan 8, 2010 22:12:56 GMT -5
Hasn't Meltzer apparently said that we'll find out what really happened once someone "close" to the events that night passes away? No offense to you - or any other Meltzer followers, for that matter - but really, how the hell would he know anything? Was he there for the Screwjob? Or for the "secret meetings"? Sounds to me like anyone could say that to try to sound cryptic, and they'd just sound like a horse's ass. Seriously go to a friend of yours that does not like pro-wrestling or doesn't watch it. Explain the Screwjob to them.. and tell them that it was all real and legit. They will laugh at you because they are thinking with common sense. I have. They didn't. Sure, I'm just one case, but there ya go. Anyway, here's my two cents. There is a small possibility that it was a work, sure. I personally don't think it was; I remember watching the PPV in all of my smarky glory - my family had a subscription to the Pro Wrestling Torch before there were NEWZ sites - analyzing everything that went on, getting more and more excited for the main event. And as soon as the M.E. ended - as soon as that bell rang - I said, out loud, "What the f*** was that?" Now, I'm not trying to come across as some expert, because I admit I am far from it. I have a pretty good intuition, though, and if something doesn't sit right with me, I start to question it loudly. I knew that what I was watching was real. I know, that sounds incredibly arrogant, and possibly even naive. I don't care. The people that think it was a work will never accept the fact that it was more than likely a shoot, and my opinion isn't going to make a bit of difference. I echo a lot of others when I ask, what would be the point of working people for 12+ years, especially when kayfabe is dead? (and let's not kid ourselves - it's dead; it had been on life support throughout the bulk of the Attitude Era, but they pulled the plug that night at Survivor Series.) Well, my answer to that is: they wouldn't. It would ruin the entire business if it ever came out - even if "one of the parties 'close to the situation' was dead," as God Himself Meltzer said. It would completely ruin the business, it would be a giant "f*** you" to the fans, and the only end result would be negative. Vince is completely batshit insane, sure, but he's not stupid. My verdict? Not a work. |
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Post by manstis1804 on Jan 9, 2010 17:48:16 GMT -5
If it were a work, they wouldn't have waited so long to capitalize. And I don't see Bret and Shawn being good enough actors to pull off that opening Raw segment that well if this was all a big work.
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Post by funkycoldmadina on Jan 10, 2010 0:40:19 GMT -5
Gotta add this in also, why not keep it a secret? Why not keep the work alive? It's the last little bit of magic left, and to those of you who say Vince McMahon wouldn't care, I say Vince McMahon is a man who enjoys control. He is known for playing on people's sensitivities and you don't get to where Vince is in life without enjoying the power. He may have with the help of at the most one or two other people, worked an entire wrestling audience and even more amazing everyone in the back in 1997! He had outed pro wrestling to the world as fake over 10 years before, everyone in the business knew it was worked but yet he pulled the wool over their eyes in the digital age in front of a pay per view audience and a packed arena. And guess what, people still don't know which way to go. This would feed into any man's ego, doing the one cardinal part of your business, working the crowd, but working everyone including the boys in the back.
Furthermore, Vince had signed Brian Pillman just a couple of years before this. Pillman's Loose Cannon character was something fresh, we was working everyone, the boys, Vince, everybody. I'm sure Vince seen the genius in this and simply done it to an epic scale. He accomplished a huge endeavor, why let the cat out of the bag later? It won't sale anymore pay per views, it won't give anyone a big rub. Why not let it stand as it was, the greatest work of all time, by the man who killed kayfabe in the first place.
As for the opening moments of Raw seeming too real, come on, really? It doesn't take academy award winning skills to do what they done Monday. These guys have been in front of crowds working them for years. As Jim Cornette said HBK can cry on cue. And I'm sure there was some antimosity between these two, they really didn't like each other, Screwjob or no screwjob. You just take some of that past anger and project it out. As for why they didn't capitalize, well I think they would have brought Bret back years ago for the conclusion if things had've worked out different. It wasn't the screwjob that kept him away. It was Owen, his family life and his medical complications. Those three things have been what kept him away from it for so long. Do I think the angle would have been better suited for 2001...oh yeah. That older audience was still there and the pop last Monday would have been Hogan at X8 levels or higher. It's still a great nod to we old timers that they give some television closure to the event.
If it ever did get out, do I think it would hurt the business? No. Letting kayfabe out of the bag in the mid 80s didn't hurt the business, and how is it going to hurt it now? Vince and Bret worked everyone 12 years ago, what is the company going to do, walk out on him? Nah 98% of the company wasn't even there for it. The old timers would respect it for what it was, pure art. And would the viewing audience care now? Hell no. Most of them weren't alive in November of 97, and if they were and they're going to turn the TV off because they got worked, why watch wrestling anyway? I think it was a work, I stand by that, and personally respect the greatness of what happened that night.
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Post by FrankGotch on Jan 10, 2010 9:17:01 GMT -5
Why would it not be a work? It's pro wrestling. The facts stand against it, to start with. 12 years of working the fans, after Vince won the war? What sense does that make? WCW folded in '01, not in '09. What purpose would keeping this thing going past that serve? Maybe the fact that 12 years later there are still thousands of fans talking about the screw job all over message boards like this one? |
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Post by manstis1804 on Jan 10, 2010 13:52:59 GMT -5
Maybe they can have Bret and Vince admit it was a work and be all buddy buddy, and name Hart the new GM of Raw.
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Post by darbus alan on Jan 10, 2010 14:06:19 GMT -5
I seriously doubt it was a work, personally. There's a possibility it was, but I think it's a shoot.
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SlimTrip
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Post by SlimTrip on Jan 10, 2010 14:06:22 GMT -5
Vince got over as a heel boss because of it and HBK solidified his heel title run even though he denied it kayfabe. And of course Bret got paid in WCW because of it. I guess i can see how people think it's a work, but I think it is indeed safe to say Montreal was not a work. My opinion.
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